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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: Feb 20 2009 at 1:27pm | IP Logged
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JodieLyn wrote:
I think what I don't like about "beheading" is that the word itself pretty much describes what is going on.. (why can't they just say executed/killed?) I'm sure I was an adult before I really understood exactly how harsh crucifixion was.. the word doesn't really describe the mechanism of death... hmm yes, I think that's what I look for.. words that don't necessarily describe the mechanism of death. |
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Yes that makes sense!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Matilda
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To me, it is the difference between understanding a concept and being given specific details. My young children understand that some people die and some people are killed. They know that their Big Pawpaw died from emphysema which resulted from years and years of smoking. They don't know that emphysema basically is a condition where the person suffocates to death. They know that St. Maria Goretti was killed by a man who wanted her to sin but they don't know that he was mad with lust or the specifics surrounding that sin. The same is true for the beginnings of life. They know that babies grow in their mother's tummies (the Hail Mary has taught them that it is called a womb) but they don't have the specifics on how that occurs.
There is no one right or wrong way. It is up to each parent to determine what level of detail they are comfortable with and what level of detail the child can handle. My 11 year old boy refuses to read Greek Myths because he thinks they are too scary but my 8 year old daughter loves them! And she was the one who was most plagued with nightmares when she was littler. Go figure!
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Sarah M
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Jodielyn wrote:
hmm yes, I think that's what I look for.. words that don't necessarily describe the mechanism of death.
I tend to err on the side of presenting people as basically good though sometimes acting out of fear or ignorance.. I talk to my kids about how sad it is that someone would choose abortion because they don't understand what it is they're really doing.. and so we pray for both the mother and the baby.. that type of thing.. no way no how do I attempt to explain the mechanism of death. |
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Matilda wrote:
| To me, it is the difference between understanding a concept and being given specific details... The same is true for the beginnings of life. They know that babies grow in their mother's tummies (the Hail Mary has taught them that it is called a womb) but they don't have the specifics on how that occurs. |
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Yes, this works for me. What I'm uncomfortable with is explaining the mechanism of death/giving specific details. Thanks for clarifying it for me.
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isjalu0826
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 1:43am | IP Logged
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The first thing that came to mind when I read the original post---before I read the whole thread---was this: there are so many wonderful beautiful saints to choose from...not every saint is a martyr...The Little Flower, Teresa of Avila, St. Monica, St. Helena, St. Clare, St. Ann, St. Elizabeth of Hungary, St. Rita, St. Rose of Lima, St. Brigid, St. Scholastica, St. Catherine of Siena---I'm just thinking women saints now since you were talking about your daughter. (I can come up with even more non-martyrs who were male!)
In any event, if I felt uncomfortable discussing what some of the actual martrydoms were in their detail, or felt my child was too sensitive, I would stick to stories of saints who did not meet a bloody death, until the time was right to bring those stories into the fold...
Even though your daughter is fluent, like with anything else in life, you should just try to preview books before she reads them. Not every saint book is appropriate for all age levels just because it's a book about saints...and even if the reading level meets the book's level, that doesn't mean the child is ready for the book, of course. That's true for any book, religious or secular, including Catholic saint books it appears!
I don't have suggestions on particular books---the lovely ladies in this thread gave you many. Good luck with your endeavors!
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isjalu0826
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And a P.S.----this is not on topic to this post, but related (in a way).... here we are talking about beheadings and the mechanics of some saints' martrydoms, just days away from Lent---when we will start talking about/meditating on the Stations of the Cross.
I know as a child I was fascinated/freaked out by a bible my great-aunt had which featured quite bloody artist's depictions of Christ's passion... And I know for myself, that it is often difficult/challenging to talk to my son (now 6) about, for instance, the Crown of Thorns, the scourging, the nails, the crucifixion...
So there in my other post, I'm suggesting you preview books so as to pull away from any that seem too graphic or disturbing... and yet, here we are entering Lent and I can't think of any gentle way to get some of the realities of that across...
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LLR4
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Sarah! -
I posted about this very same struggle, asking for suggestions!! It's somewhere around here - I can't recall where I put it. But there was alot of great suggestions and links for specific saint books for kids.
Can you do a search under my name?
I haven't read any of this thread yet...but I will be!
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LLR4
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| Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
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Ok, I just read SOME of the posts in this thread.
As I said, I posted not too long ago, about the same struggles-when studying the saints and Feast Days with my 3 younger children, who are all 6.
I think for me, it wasn't just a concern of upsetting them. While I do want them grasp the belief that we should die before we would deny Our Father and our faith, I just didn't want all of these horrific images of being KILLED, in my kid's head 'at this young age'. There will come a time, when they will be old enough to understand that this was a whole other time and place - when LOTS of things were 'taken care of' quite differently. While such violent acts and offenses do happen sometimes, even now, it is not the norm, or regularly part of our world here. I found myself saying 'They don't really do that anymore.' So I didn't want my children to get the message, that if "You admit, or evangelize, or live for and commit your life to Christ, people will be out to kill you like this." I want to encourage my children, to express their love for God, from a happy and safe place within their heart. At this young age.
When they get older, they will be able to rationalize more. Such as my 11 year old, who LOVES to study the lives of the saints now, sad and gruesome ending and all, withour fear. (When she was little, we weren't studying the lives of saints at all, to tell you the truth.) But the little ones.....mosy ANY little ones, don't quite understand even the concept of REAL TIME yet. Weeks ago, or weeks from now....next year.....before they were born....are all time concepts they are really just grasping, and it hasn't been long since they have been. So to trying to get them to understand that a lot of these horrific things happened a lot, CENTURIES and CENTURIES ago, isn't real effective.
I'll tell you...just last week there was a news story about a Muslim man, who had started a television station to let the world know that the world should not be negative towards Muslims, because of 9/11 (or something like that.) Anyway...his wife filed for divorce on Jan 6 or something, and he beheaded her!! I'm telling you, those images in my head disturbed ME for DAYS. And I'm 40!!! So, I just don't want my kids disturbed or fearing such things, until they can make some sense of it all with some sense of mature rationalization.
That probably wasn't helpful to you Sarah...lol.
But since I posted about it myself, I have made even more clarity as to exactly what bothered me about it, and it just all came out. : )
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Blessed: Mama to dd{A}13 y.o., and 7 y.o. triplets ds{J}, dd{O}, ds{S} and wife to Michael
Our House of Joyful Noise
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folklaur
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I have been thinking and thinking about this thread.
I know, for me, I have an autistic 10yo, and a highly sensitive 6yo. The 10yo could handle the martyr stuff fine at his age, though I still go slowly.
Now - I have to say, I do not think my 6 (almost 7) year old is ready to realize the horrors that people do to each other. She cries seeing a crucifix - it really tears her up to think about it. Beheadings? No way I am going there with her yet.
I guess, for me, it is the same reason I hate gore in general. Everybody complains about the gore at halloween, but I have taken my children to All Saints Day parties and had to deal with nightmares from them too because of the martyr gore. Why is martyr gore okay? <shudder> imvvvvho, and ymmv, it isn't. It is just allowed through some kind of weird logic, from my perspective (and mine alone.)
I can say, I was a cradle catholic, catholic-school-attending child. Stations of the cross were a regular event every friday during Lent. Now, I know this isn't going to be very popular opinion, but in all honesty, I feel that things like Stations of the Cross, Crucifixes everywhere, brutal Martyr stories, etc - totally desensitized me to the violence of it all. I am not sure how I feel about that...it was easy to be desensitized elsewhere due to this, I think.
I have very much liked reading different perspectives on this, though, thank you all for sharing...
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Sarah M
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Thank you all.  The responses to this thread have been going over and over in my head. I wonder if I'm being overprotective, but all of my motherly instincts scream against exposing my kids to the gore- the mechanism of death- that I do think they will be disturbed by.
I think about how much I just love CGS, and I wonder... they don't even discuss the Saints at all. Or anything that isn't lovely & beautiful, for that matter. Even now, as we approach Lent, the stations of the cross will not be a part of their practice- instead, they will hide the "alleluia" and think a lot about the concept of *watch and wait*. In CGS, they fill the child's heart and mind with stories and parables that speak of God's love and mercy, and the life of Our Lord on earth. The depth of both of my dd's relationships with Our Lord is staggering- and my older dd has a good grasp on some very deep spiritual matters as a result of her work in CGS. So I wonder if I should just take my lead from them.
We could still touch on the Saints by feasting through the liturgical year, but maybe just lightly, with one of Charlotte's coloring pages and a few short sentences about the lovely things that Saint is known for. Laura (Joyful Noise), you mention that you didn't study the saints with your dd at all when she was younger, but that she is very interested and eager to learn now. And now she is old enough to hear ALL of the story, without editing. So I am intrigued by this- and can see myself going this route. I also have looked into many of the book recommendations and am eager to get my hands on some- so many are lovely and endearing, and that is just what I am looking for.
Just thinking out loud now...
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Mackfam
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I have some thoughts, Sarah, but I don't know if I'll have time to get them up here before the board closes tonight. I wanted to interject some things into the conversation for thought and then, if I can't get back tonight, I'll be back with how I approach this on Monday sometime (before your Lenten fast!  )
I will say that we each as mothers of our children, know them and are equipped through the Sacrament of Marriage to educate them in the faith. Through the Sacrament of Baptism our children are given graces, among which they are infused with the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the theological virtues, and incorporation into Christ among others . These are powerful graces. There are graces available both to us as parents in discerning a gentle approach, and to our children to hear and see with clarity.
**Luke 18:16 says: (emphasis mine)
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| ...Jesus called them to him saying, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God..." |
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**1917 - The children of Fatima were threatened with martyrdom (being boiled in a pot of oil) lest they renounce the visions of Our Lady. Though this did not happen, they each went willingly to what they believed was their death. Jacinta was 7 at the time.
**1903 - St. Maximillian Kolbe at the age of 9 was approached by Our Lady offering two crowns - the white crown of purity and the red crown of martyrdom. He chose both - at age 9.
There are others, but I wanted to give you a few saints I consider to be from contemporary times who accepted martyrdom. There are accounts of some saints as children longing for martyrdom.
What I hope to do when I can come back is to give you my thoughts on bringing our children to Jesus which he clearly commands.
...be back...
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CrunchyMom
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I think that sounds like a plan that could work for you, Sarah--though, I would have to disagree with your inferring that the saints and their stories aren't "lovely and beautiful." Echoing Jenn earlier, I think that martyrdom, is beautiful, in the same way the passion is beautiful.
I would also find it interesting to hear if any parents of many who have both older children and younger still "shelter" the younger from the concepts of beheading and such. I can't imagine how that would work practically in my own family. I also wonder how it differs in families of mostly girls and mostly boys or where the oldest are girls. My boys imaginative play often involves heroism--they will be Coast Guard swimmers diving to save victims or the playmobile Roman soldiers will arrest all the farm people and march them somewhere. I remember in a past thread someone sharing the insight (Jenn maybe or a friend of hers) that, int heir play, boys practice heroism and being brave while girls practice nurturing. Its a part of practicing to be an adult. I think that the stories of the saints act in the same way--helping them practice the courage required.
I'm not advocating gruesome pictures of martyrs or even vivid descriptions ("and then she was beheaded because she loved God" is very different to me than "and then the executioner took her, and raising the axe over her, chopped of her head which rolled down..."--ick, you get the picture).
Though, adding to what Jennifer is posting, I think that Our Lady in Fatima also showed the children hell.
I'm not sure that "emphasizing" the gore so much desensitizes us as bolsters our courage in revisiting Christ's passion daily. I wonder if having an imagination to conjure images isn't achieving its ultimate purpose when we are able to use it to join with Christ's suffering.
All that said, and I must confess to being the only person I know who hasn't watched Mel Gibson's Passion of Christ because I can't bring myself to do it. So, I'm certainly not saying that there aren't limits--and they certainly are different for different individuals and especially with young children! However, the history of meditating on Christs passion, depicting it in artwork, etc... is such a fixed part of the Church through its entire history--so, no, Laura, I don't agree with you. I can see why you might feel that way. I just believe that Stations and crucifixes must be an effective tool in general (and not a desensitization) for most people if the Church in her wisdom requires them to be present in all churches.
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Lindsay
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My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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I also wonder how much our perception of the picture in their mind is shaped by actual images we have seen in movies, art, etc... which our children are in fact sheltered from. I'm not sure they are seeing the same horror in their mind from a non-graphic statement as we do. My own concepts of these stories are different now than I remember understanding them as a child--like my imagination did some self-filtering for me until I was ready to "go there."
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Kristin
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First off, if everything in you screams against it, Sarah, that obviously says a lot. Taking the lead from your children and CGS also sound like a safe way to go. Another point about CGS (level 1), interestingly, is that it does not touch upon the stories of the Old Testament because children of this age would not be able to understand them properly. Many of these stories include violence, the ten plagues and the smiting of the firstborn for example.
CrunchyMom makes an excellent point:
"I wonder how much our perception of the picture in their mind is shaped by actual images we have seen in movies, art, etc...which our children are in fact sheltered from."
I've experienced this in my own life, meaning the difficulty of removing my own filters in order to see through the eyes of our children and their experiences.
One thought that has been in my mind along the lines of what Jennifer (Mackfam) might have been leading to. Many saints and holy people, as children, were not sheltered from the harsh realities of life and because of their sufferings came closer to God. Suffering is a central part of believing in a crucified God.
It seems that there is an important distinction between sheltering from glamorization of gore/violence and sheltering from the hardships of life. The first would be good, the second (edited: could be) harmful. KWIM?
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folklaur
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CrunchyMom wrote:
| so, no, Laura, I don't agree with you. |
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That's okay, I figure most wouldn't, and I'm fine with that.
I have to agree with how Sarah described it, everything in me screams against it. So, I need to listen to that.
Like I said, my daughter was traumatized seeing kids at an All Saints Day party with bloddy arrows all over them, for instance. But these were the same parents who complained about how Halloween was all scary and gory. I see a real disconnect there. And with the desensitizing - i did say that was the way it affected me, and I know not everyone will feel that way. But, so, so, so many of the Catholics I grew up knowing have fallen away as adults. I am wondering how much is intertwined. Maybe none. These are just thoughts...
I also have never seen The Passion. We own it, and DH & dd19 have seen it. But I know how some things get stuck in my head now. I am quite nervous to watch it....
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Cay Gibson
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Actually I agree with almost everything written here...at least what I've had the chance to read.  
I'm not anti either side because, frankly, I can always see (or at least try to see) both sides of the coin and understand different people's objections and promotions of such things.
I have no problem with parents who allow (or don't allow) readings, reenactments, and such of the great martyrs. They were (and are) wonderful witnesses.
I just remember my incredible discomfort as a young child over death. It was a worry in itself and nothing my parents did or said could lessen that worry. I also worried that I wouldn't go to heaven because I didn't think I loved God enough to...<gulp!>...DIE for Him! That always bothered me.
I've grown up a little since then and know now that a gory death isn't the only way to get into heaven...though dying, of course, is the natural law prerequisite.
But I don't expect my children to understand or accept death the way I do now. Not even close. I've had exposure and up-close experience with death which God, in His mercy, has not granted my children yet.
I believe life naturally teaches us harshness. Really life, in general, is harsher than any of us would like it.
The only thing that I question is the teaching that "martyrdom=death" is the greatest sign of love for God.
St. Theresa taught us otherwise.
Sometimes martydom is found in "living" the faith than in "dying" for the faith.
Of course, I'm not saying anyone here is implying that. I know the hearts of Catholic hsing mothers, especially those here, are more expansive and receptive than that.
I just wish there were more books about saints who "lived" the faith versus those who "died" for the faith without the somber, anguished sound of it all. AFter all, that's how most of us are living and, certainly, as hsing moms, we are trying to teach our children to be "joyful" Christians.
It's as though becoming a saint involves a boring, lumbersome journey to the cross.And children do not like boring, lumbersome journeys, of course. They are often timid of approaching anything sinister and foreboding.
Yet, I guess, the journey to the cross is...naturally...in many, many, many ways, lumbersome, sinister, and foreboding.
The lifestyle of a devout Christian is never easy, never glamorous, and never without pain and persecution.
And, perhaps,...now that I'm talking to myself...God is more selective of his saints than I would be.  Perhaps those serious, somber souls are the ones who embrace the cross more so than the ones who joyfully dance their way up the hill.
But I don't think those serious, somber souls are the only ones God wants in heaven.
I just get a little tired of books that declare the saints "loved" God so much that death was the end result. What about living joyfully and offering our sufferings on earth joyfully to God. Does it always have to end in death and gore?
No, of course not, but it is a common complaint from older children who say the saints seemed to live such serious, drab, harsh lifestyles. Where's the joy?
Of course, the older models of saints who have had books written about them did lead harsh lives because of the times and countries in which they lived. They certainly didn't live in the 20th/21st centuries as we all have.
Assuredly, those saints did meet death with joy; but this is a hard concept to sell to 21st century boys and girls in America.
Clearly, I am unsure what it takes to bring my children to the cross and become saints. I have only trust and faith that the Holy Spirit will lead them as slowly and wisely and deliberately as He did me.
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Cay Gibson
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LLR4
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cactus mouse wrote:
| I also have never seen The Passion. We own it, and DH & dd19 have seen it. But I know how some things get stuck in my head now. I am quite nervous to watch it.... |
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I just wanted to share with you my own personal experience about watching this movie:
I too, was SO afraid to watch it. I don't like scary/bloody/horror/even upsetting...movies. I had heard enough to know it wouldn't be easy for me to see. But inside, I wanted to. Because it was a very well reviewed movie about...the Passion of Christ.
I have to say, it was harder to watch than I even expected. I had no idea Christ went through SO much, prior to even being hung on the cross. It was HARD to watch...I felt so helpless. Shaken up. Horrified...sick. I remember there were parts I was just sobbing (with my husband), and I couldn't watch anymore that night. I wanted them to STOP!! I had to absorb it all.
The next night we watched the rest.
Although I know the movie was a recreation, I also know there was a lot of fact and truth to it, and that it was indeed a more realistic picture, of all of his sufferings. Of the Blessed Mother's sufferings too, following and watching her Son (THAT was hard too.)
It made me realize how 'cleaned up' Christ on the cross has been made - in paintings and as crucifixes in churches, etc. I am sure, over the years, it has not been to glorify the scene or make it prettier----but because the reality of His actual state, would be hard to see all of the time. Even to recreate, as artists. The few trickles of blood here and there are the sign of his trials....but the reality was unthinkable....
But...the movie actually brought me even closer to Him. It expanded and deepened my faith, even more. It made me understand what he truly DID go through for me, for you,...for us all. To SEE it.....uncensored...un-cleaned up (to be easier to see)....my love for Him, and His Mother, only grew after that. I GOT IT. And I had to ACCEPT, all over again, that He went through allof that that, for ME. He didn't just die on the cross for me/us...he lived through some of the worst sufferings first, for me/us.
It was an amazing movie, that yes....is still in my head. In a good way. It had only positive impacts for me, for a lifetime. Even though those few hours were hard to get through. I realized too....he sustained THAT...I am glad I at least had the dug up courage to witness it. (IN a recreated way.)
Just my personal experience.
Oh and, none of my children have seen that movie yet!! Not even my 11 year old. Maybe she'll be ready in a few years. I have talked to her some though, about the reality of Christ's sufferings and death for us, and that they are even worse than what she can understand and take in right now. WITHOUT the visuals.
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~ Laura
Blessed: Mama to dd{A}13 y.o., and 7 y.o. triplets ds{J}, dd{O}, ds{S} and wife to Michael
Our House of Joyful Noise
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JennGM
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I don't have the time to quote, but wanted to respond to some thoughts before the boards close.
Perhaps, Laura, that is personal case with you that you think the images of Christ's passion desensitized you, but I can't see the connection. Unless a person was totally raised in a bubble and watched no TV or nor other outside influences (perhaps a disfunctional family or rough neighborhoods), that would be hard to pinpoint. I'm not denying that it could be, but what I keep coming back to is that if you put the Passion and martyrdom side by side with gratuitious violence and gore, it's different, because it's got a supernatural slant on it. Of course, it needs to be presented in the correct way.
But the Passion should evoke sorrow and horror for our sins, and even bring to mind that we abhor the horrible, cruel ways Christ suffered. The cross is also a reminder for us to unite our sufferings with His. Images are put up to remind us of all these things and more.
And I now sound like my mom, but don't underestimate the power of grace to help even children differentiate. It is different, and the child knows it.
Sarah, your plan sounds great. In training with CGS, when people did ask about the Passion and Saints, there was a reminder that the Catechesis should not be the only religion in the life of a child. Being raised in a Catholic family there will be the gentle familiarity of the rosary, saints, and other things not brought into CGS.
I understand that the emphasis in the 3-6 level is for the child to understand the love of God, and how he is loved. That is the main purpose of those years.
One area in the CGS that I haven't been able to reconcile is how can you present love without mention of Christ's sacrifice? For love is sacrifice. Even when we try to protect our children from all hurts or wants, there will always be some in our daily lives. And I do think from an early age a child can comprehend at some level that there can be some uniting of their sufferings with Christ's. I don't like to write off my son's complaints with a simple "offer it up", but there is an element that I do want him to learn that. I haven't found the perfect balance, but that is an area I'm constantly pondering.
The Liturgical Year presented by CGS does closely reflect the General Norms of the Liturgical Calendar:
Chapter II-a. Liturgical Days
Table of Liturgical Days
There is a hierarchy, with the main emphasis being Paschal Mysteries/Easter and the Sundays of the Year. While saints are important, many are lower on the priority list of the feast days (memorials and optional memorials).
And I guess I didn't mention much of my personal approach. I don't like to overemphasize the saints at a young age. I want the emphasis right now on the Life of Christ and the seasons of the Church. This doesn't remove saints from our daily living, I just pick fewer saints to emphasize, usually keeping with those that are solemnities and feasts, and then our patron saints. They are in the background. I want to make sure he sees the hierarchy, and not think that every day is a feast day on an equal level, because they aren't. Treating on most saints' days isn't the same as treats on solemnities.
And I really need to work on emphasizing Sunday.
I use picture books (like Catholic Mosaic titles) to introduce some of the saints, and then also the use of books with classic works of art of saints to familiarize him with the saints. I was just strewing them. Minimally our night prayers would include the saint of the day "Saint Peter Damien, pray for us". If it was a saint I wanted him to be more familiar with the story, then I would discuss during the day, or show a picture and retell the story (so the gentle approach without blood and gore). But his interest level is what I've been following. He picks up the books, wants to learn more, wants to hear the stories.
And I have realized that showing the illustrations there might be some that show their martyrdom. But these are also classic works of art, so he is seeing some beauty. And without elaborate detail from me, he can read the words "martyr" to know which saints died for their faith.
Now that he is learning to read, I will be leaving out some of the books I mentioned above to have him read on his own about the saints.
I recently finished reading a classic work "The Saints in Daily Christian Life" by Romano Guardini. One of the things he mentioned was something along some lines of what Cay is saying. There is a newer kind of saint in the last few centuries. For centuries we have had the concept of sanctity would be "a personal who fulfilled the 'great commandment' to an extraordinary degree." Then he sees a modern shift, pinpointing it to 18th century writing of Jean Pierre de Caussade, Self-Abandonment to Divine Providence where we learn how to love God "to do what is to be done in the present moment, because it is exactly that which fulfills the will of God. And to do it as charity should be performed, in a spirit of purity and good will." This is also the "Little Way" of St. Therese.
So, cutting short here, but just adding some pondering that there is that other piece of the puzzle of teaching our children about saints and sanctity. There is a need to show our children how we don't need to be extraordinary in our actions or lives, but do our daily duties extraordinarily well to become saints.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Matilda
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| The only thing that I question is the teaching that "martyrdom=death" is the greatest sign of love for God. St. Theresa taught us otherwise...I just wish there were more books about saints who "lived" the faith versus those who "died" for the faith without the somber, anguished sound of it all.... |
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Exactly!!! That was my frustration in trying to teach my very sensitive little girls! My son, who was my most sensitive to scary images was still a little better able to handle it than their tender hearts were. I still have to be careful with my oldest daughter (9) who takes to heart very much the idea that the only way to become a saint it to die a horrific death.
Cay Gibson wrote:
I just get a little tired of books that declare the saints "loved" God so much that death was the end result. What about living joyfully and offering our sufferings on earth joyfully to God. Does it always have to end in death and gore?
No, of course not, but it is a common complaint from older children who say the saints seemed to live such serious, drab, harsh lifestyles. Where's the joy? |
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My oldest son, for the longest time, would get very upset when we talked about dying and going to Heaven because to him, Heaven sounded boring and dull. We were able to help him understand this better through discussion about how Jesus talks about the Kingdom of God in the Bible. And now, he definitely is drawn to those saints who "did something".
Ultimately, the graces that we open ourselves to will help you know what time line is best for introducing all of these things to our children. I don't follow anyone else's time line of information but what I believe my children need and it is different for every child. My youngest is much better able to deal with more information than my older ones could at his age.
Also, let's not forget that martyrdom was a grace that was given in abundance to the members of the early Church and the majority of martyrs were older converts, not young children. I remember my husband making that point to me one time I was concerned about sheltering them too much. He also made other good points but I am afraid I can't recall them now.
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Charlotte (Matilda)
Mom to four (11, 10, 9 & 5) an even split for now
with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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folklaur
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JennGM wrote:
| Perhaps, Laura, that is personal case with you that you think the images of Christ's passion desensitized you, but I can't see the connection.Unless you were totally raised in a bubble and watched no TV or nor other outside influences (perhaps a disfunctional family or rough neighborhoods), that would be hard to pinpoint. |
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No, last I checked, my homelife was fine, thank you very much.
wow - I didn't realize all opinions were okay but mine. Okay then, I've got the message loud & clear now, Jenn.
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JennGM
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cactus mouse wrote:
JennGM wrote:
| Perhaps, Laura, that is personal case with you that you think the images of Christ's passion desensitized you, but I can't see the connection.Unless you were totally raised in a bubble and watched no TV or nor other outside influences (perhaps a disfunctional family or rough neighborhoods), that would be hard to pinpoint. |
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No, last I checked, my homelife was fine, thank you very much.
wow - I didn't realize all opinions were okay but mine. Okay then, I've got the message loud & clear now, Jenn. |
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Oh my, no, Laura. I reread my message over and over trying to make sure it wouldn't sound like that. It wasn't meant to be pointing at you. I meant YOU as in plural, objectively, not singularly at you. I said you (singularly) might be right. I was just saying objectively it would be hard to pinpoint images as the sole reason. It's just an opinion, as was yours.
I am truly sorry. It wasn't meant to single you out like that. Please forgive me.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Learning about the saints....gently
