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anitamarie
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| Posted: Feb 11 2009 at 11:24pm | IP Logged
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HWT has you sit down and write a few strokes bottom to top and vice versa and also draw circles the same way to compare neatness. It is harder to control the stroke and circle bottom to top. That being said, if she is writing legibly and neatly, I wouldn't worry about it. I have been wondering lately about a genetic component to handwriting. Several people in my family have very similar barely legible handwriting. Just a thought for those who may question their own methods with particular children.
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Alcat
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 7:03am | IP Logged
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Hmmm... This is interesting. I think that it is more important teach proper letter formation in preK-1st so that the child has better control when writing (like anitamarie said).
My ds was taught using HWT and did well (especially as a lefty), but I let the ball drop and didn't continue with his handwriting practice and now he forms his O's and lines at the bottom and it makes p, q, o, and 9 really hard to see.. It also takes longer because he is constantly going back to add the stems to n and r... this is really frustrating to him to write so slowly, now I am going back and making him work on his handwriting
I think Handwriting Without Tears manipulatives and Montessori style insets would fit the unschooler bill- the kids love to play with them. I do a 3 period lesson when they want to use those materials.
Alison
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hylabrook1
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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Veronica -
That makes so much sense! Thanks.
Peace,
Nancy
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ALmom
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| Posted: Feb 12 2009 at 5:43pm | IP Logged
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Well, handwriting was an issue in our house - not the books because we couldn't use most of these anyways (print size issues). The bottom-top thing is sometimes common in folks with vision/directionality issues, but in these folks the handwriting has tons of reversals as well as incorrect starting points. Developmentally, it makes sense to teach the way you read - top to bottom and left to right so the reversals are less common and don't become habitual. I'd definitely start teaching this way so that you give the best possible chance to those inclined to reverse (something that is normal and common in younger children that you don't want to become just a habit). I haven't gone nutso about the top bottom thing if they persisted but were neat, relaxed, efficient and consistent in keeping the letters facing the correct direction.
If you look at a variety of programs, you will find that the arrows showing where to start and where to finish are not consistent from publisher to publisher. We've used handwriting books where we've ignored the arrows because we'd already followed a different book's pattern and had switched publishers for print size. It cannot be all that essential.
I would look for a few things besides neat handwriting before determining exactly what I'd do to proceed. I'd look for a loose wrist and I'd look at the finger tension and print/ cursive size. Some of my children had what I would call a death grip and very awkward movement. They tended to get very tiny in cursive and tended to be extra large in print. For some of these, the writing itself was quite neat. It just took forever to write. Look at the knuckles when they write. If they are turning white or the hand is tiring way to quickly, that is a big clue to excess tension. I'm not sure how to describe the wrist thing in print. I didn't really notice it until cursive and realized none of mine wanted to move on. They didn't gain anything from cursive because of stiff wrists and awkward, non-flowing sort of way of writing. A couple of non-workbook things we did for these problems were:
Montessori insets and practical life activities
Writing large circles or getting larger lined paper (helps reduce tension)
Using a White Board or chalkboard for practice
Writing letters in the air before pen or pencil in hand
Writing letters with fingers in the sand or in cornmeal
Using a Penny right at the hand finger joints as wrote to keep the flow going and the wrist more fluid. They had to keep the motion fluid in order not to drop the penny (this was a wonderful hint from an OT)and it did do something to really promote fluidity of writing and a looser wrist.
Then a little competition egged everyone on to actually just do it. I had to motivate them to give me work in cursive. It seemed to work with the boys to have some sort of race to see who would write everything in cursive first. Some of these still have some odd looking print - but if they need to fix it, my dh will teach them a drafting course  .
Honestly, the workbooks all have waaaay too small print for use in teaching a young person how to write. We have found the books mostly frustrating. Even workbooks, my children must use a seperate sheet of paper to have sufficient room. A long time ago, most K and 1st grade work was done on very large white paper and there was lots of space to make things big. This does a lot more to encourage proper formation. Your child may simply hate the handwriting books because the letter size and spacing is totally inappropriate for the age. CHC, unfortunately, is one of the smaller of the books. Secular publishers are a bit larger. One trick I've used is to use a younger book with an older child if I really need to do practice in a handwriting book. Generally, requiring neat work in neat handwriting for whatever we write seems to work best.
I suspect that things like fingerpainting do a lot to prepare for writing.
If the print/cursive is neat, there isn't excessive tension (look at the knuckles when they write and look at how many pages have impressions left on them when they write and how many holes are left when they try to erase) and they seem to use a relaxed wrist and are not holding the whole arm stiff, then I don't think I'd sweat letters that are habitually formed bottom to top. Anytime I demonstrated, I'd be sure to do it correctly and point out the correct formation but I don't think I'd belabor the point unless the letters aren't closing and you cannot read the writing well. Later they can take a drafting class if it really is important. :)
Janet
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Sarah M
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
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So last week I ordered HWT (just the workbooks and a teacher guide- I ordered level K for both dd's; got my slates cheaper from a local school supply store; am using the sandpaper letters I have already instead of the spendy wood maniuplatives from HWT). Started this morning: WOW. This program is AWESOME!!! My 7yo said, "Handwriting Without Tears- they should call it, Handwriting While Laughing! This is so much fun!!!" My 5yo, who is very resistant to do anything organized, loved it as well. "This is fun school!" she said. Thanks for the tip, ladies. What a difference from dd's distress at writing letters my way (or the CHC's workbook way) ("but mine look fine, mom"). I have a really good feeling about this!
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Kristin
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| Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 10:00pm | IP Logged
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That's great news, Sarah!  Don't know if you've decided to try to get them to start at the top or not, but HWT has a cute song sung to "If you're happy and you know it" which says, "If you want to write a letter start at the top!" 
Hey, I was wondering about children who write letters inconsistently, starting in a different place each time. I have one first grader that I tutor that used to do this. He could make letters that look like what they were supposed to be, but he would do it in a very inefficient way. It's hard to describe, but he would take H and do an inverted "L" for the top right then do a line down from that and then the longer line on the left. The next time he would do it differently. It was really slowing him down. 
I was amazed at how quickly he switched over to a more consistent way of writing; I did not expect this at all because he has definite ideas about everything he does (I think he might be a dreamer). Once I saw that he was doing many letters from top to bottom, I no longer needed to address it with him. Not nick-picky, just helping him get a system going to make it easier!
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Sarah M
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| Posted: Feb 24 2009 at 12:17am | IP Logged
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Kristin wrote:
| Don't know if you've decided to try to get them to start at the top or not, |
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Uh.
(cough, cough)
Ahem.
(sniff)
Yeah.
I was reading through my posts on this one thread, and I thought: wow- I hope no one looks to me to be stable or reliable -- I'm all over the place! Truth be told, this ping-ponging of ideas that take me from one end of the spectrum to the other is just reflective of the way my brain works.
 It's tiring. 
I did decide to teach them to write top to bottom. Just wasn't willing to risk that I'd regret it later, I guess.
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Feb 24 2009 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
| I have all lefty's- yes, 5!!! |
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Wow! and I thought we were an oddity w/ 3 of our 5 being lefties.
I'm so thankful to read about other 7 yr olds writing from bottom to top. My 7 yr old does this as well.
I've never been a handwriting guru. My handwriting has never been that great and in 10th gr. English the teacher said she simply couldn't read my cursive and would not grade my paper because of it. Since then I've written in a print-flaired style.
My two older daughters have that desired---what I call---"teacher's handwriting". And I honestly don't remember working that hard w/ my 11 yr old on her handwriting, yet she has beautiful handwriting.
Is handwriting a natural technique?
I did go to a talk for HWT at a hs conference a few years ago and the speaker made so much sense. I was (and am) completely sold on it. Still...I didn't make the final purchase and time got away from me and Annie doodled and somehow learned to write anyway.
I am constantly reminding her to start her letters at the top. Somehow that seems enough. I see her catching and correcting herself when she write.
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Cay Gibson
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Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Kristin
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| Posted: Feb 24 2009 at 11:05pm | IP Logged
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Don't know if you will see this Sarah, until after Easter that is , but I wanted to send some encouragement your way. I'm excited that you are going to give top to bottom a go. I'm not an expert, but I personally think that it will make a big difference in ease and efficiency. I know your kids are mostly older and it will take some extra effort to get it to happen, but you never know, maybe it will be easier than you think. 
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Lil's Mom
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| Posted: March 03 2009 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
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I noticed some comments about the spacing in the CHC handwriting books and that WAS true about the old books they carried but now they have a completely new set from Kindergarten to Grade 4, with big spaces and they are spiral bound at the top so as not to interfere with the child's writing. We think they're great.
Lil's Mom
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4Real Forums : Language Arts Come Alive
Topic: How important is handwriting?
