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Elizabeth
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lilangels wrote:
Elizabeth's quote is of course a good one - I try not to skip those things (exercise goes first  ) but those are the basics. I guess I tend to stop there and attempt to take a big breath and take care of my home & children.  I realize that's me. I am introverted in many ways. |
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Barbara,
I think it's great you're not skipping the basics. You're absolutely right to differentiate between leaving your children for various apostolates and taking care of your own basic needs. Personally, I've found I can eat, exercise, sleep, even shower (not necessarily by choice ), WITH my children. That just leaves me looking for about 15 minutes two or three times a day to pray.The first, is in the morning before they awaken and the second is at night after they are asleep. The third usually happens while nursing in the midday/afternoon.
You did read "apostolic orphans" in my book. These days,I have to be on my guard not to leave my children orphaned by the internet:-).
There's a big difference between taking care to meet your basic needs and demanding more than that. I have found that I've grown as I've recognized that I'm not "entitled" to very much at all.Many things that people think are necessary, they come to find out are really privileges. Some things which seem necessary or noble might even be sinful in your current state.The trick is discerning which is which. A spiritual director or confessor can really help with this and can ensure that we recognize those things that will help us grow spiritually only when we let go of our inordinate attachment to them, no matter how good they might have appeared at first.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Sarah M
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Well, I'm not sure I think Holly's time-away is over the top. It seems like it works for her and her family, and it meets a primary need for her. I am extremely extroverted, and I do need time out-and-about. I work part-time when dh is home with the kids, and after being away for short periods of time, I come back refreshed and energized and ready to do my most-important-work here at home. It is work, yes- not a break- but the social aspect of interacting with other adults and having something new to focus on is important for me to retain my focus and concentration at home. I always consider my work here as wife, mother, and home-teacher my primary vocation. But getting out helps me be better at it.
I think I may need more time away than other mothers. So I schedule one hour in the middle of the day (1-2pm usually) where my kids go play in their rooms. That's my time to be on the computer, chat on the phone, read a book, and spend time in prayer. I get together with girlfriends once or twice a month after the kids are in bed to play games or chat. I spend lots of time with dh in the evenings (my kids are all still little, so by 8 they are all tucked in), and spend every-day-all-day with my children, so I really don't feel like I'm taking anything away from my family to nurture my extroverted-sociable nature.
I found Holly's book very helpful, though I certainly have not adopted everything she promotes. Mostly what I took away is that is is important that we mothers figure out what we each *need*, and then prioritize our days so that we are taking time to honor God and take care of ourselves and our families the best we can.
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JodieLyn
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Lindsay, it's not every Saturday, it's every other Saturday. And she schedules her times for confession and spiritual advisor etc during that time as well.
The saturdays in between are the ones her dh has though she says he usually stays home.
It's still way more time than I need. But as was said, it's working for her family.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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lilangels
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Elizabeth said "A spiritual director or confessor can really help with this and can ensure that we recognize those things that will help us grow spiritually only when we let go of our inordinate attachment to them, no matter how good they might have appeared at first."
Thanks for bringing out more clearly one of the things I was trying to get out. There are so many things that pull at us from the church that seem good - and tension develops when we feel pulled to do what seems objectively good when in reality we have to weigh all things against our vocation. When we do that weighing we may find it is a sin to participate for us.
Frequently I get this feeling of stress when I see requests for meals or blood drives or parenting talks or adoration events etc. etc. - because a part of me feels like I should put these things in my schedule but thanks to my husbands and my mother in laws guidance I have grown to somewhat squelch that unhealthy guilt. I even think - though I am loathe to admit it  - that there is a sort of pride that has to be battled with the desire to sign up for the latest charity.
In addition then to evaluating things against my vocation I think it is real important to question my motives before I join in something.
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Pax Christi,
Barbara
Mom to  4 DD's (12, 10, 7 & 5) and 1 DS (21 months)
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lilangels
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Patty - Thanks for the link. Holly definitely says there our vocation comes first and she does discuss what I mentioned - seasons of life. There is a lot of good advice on that page.
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Pax Christi,
Barbara
Mom to 4 DD's (12, 10, 7 & 5) and 1 DS (21 months)
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PDyer
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lilangels wrote:
| Patty - Thanks for the link. Holly definitely says there our vocation comes first and she does discuss what I mentioned - seasons of life. There is a lot of good advice on that page. |
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You're welcome and I'm glad you found it helpful.
One other voice to add: Kimberly Hahn adds a sixth P, Periphery, to the first five in her CD set "A Mother's Rule of Life in the Domestic Church". She includes in Periphery "Parents and Extended Family, the Parish,
and ‘Postolate to our Neighborhood and our World".
My notes from my first listen include discernment criteria very similar to those Holly posted on her site. I haven't listened to that portion of the CD in ages, but I'm trying to work through it again this winter. If I hear anything I think you may find particularly helpful I'll try to remember to post it.
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Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
Life at Home
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Cheryl
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I followed my rule this week Monday-Wednesday and then on Thursday and Friday I got sidetracked again.  I just wanted to share that sticking with it is REALLY hard. It is for me anyway.
The days that I followed it went smoothly. I have a 10:00 bedtime and I felt disappointed that the day was over so quickly. I felt like I didn't get enough alone time at night because I'm used to being a night owl. On the days that I didn't follow it, I noticed I was sidetracked by the computer and staying up way too late, like right now - I'm doing both.
Is anyone else having trouble "getting determined" and sticking with their rule?
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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PDyer
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Cheryl wrote:
Is anyone else having trouble "getting
determined" and sticking with their rule? |
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Oh yes. It's very hard (as I sit here at 1am) as I am very distractible. But you've reminded me it's time to be in bed, so off I go to my night prayers.
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Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
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Cheryl
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Sarah M wrote:
I think I may need more time away than other mothers. So I schedule one hour in the middle of the day (1-2pm usually) where my kids go play in their rooms. That's my time to be on the computer, chat on the phone, read a book, and spend time in prayer. I get together with girlfriends once or twice a month after the kids are in bed to play games or chat. I spend lots of time with dh in the evenings (my kids are all still little, so by 8 they are all tucked in), and spend every-day-all-day with my children, so I really don't feel like I'm taking anything away from my family to nurture my extroverted-sociable nature.
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I feel the same way and do these same things. I could have written this except I have an introverted-sociable nature.
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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10 Bright Stars
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Barbara,
I know what you mean about feeling guilty for not signing up for every little thing and it IS a pride thing to want to be included, at least in my case. I also don't want to be "left out" as in co-ops that my kids are involved in without me etc. I sort of feel out of the loop sometimes, but realize that this is NOT the time to be involved, and when I take time away from my duties at home, no matter how good the cause, IN MY CASE at least (I am sure others have different circumstances and different numbers if children etc.) if I go and do something outside of the home I am taking time that belongs to my family.
A good example you mentioned is the meal making. We were SO blessed to have meals made for us for 2 whole months from some very good moms/great cooks from our parish after we had our twins. It was such a lovely blessing! I really would love to be involved in returning this wonderful favor on a regular basis. I try to do so now and then. My husband, who agrees this is a good idea too, did respectfully ask that I do NOT participate in the meal making at this time. It can take me ALL day to prepare the meal and causes a lot of stress etc., with school having to be off for the day and all sorts of crazy things like that! So, I did what he asked in this area since my perfectionism and poor organizational skills in this area etc. sort of put an undue burden on my own family while I was trying to be generous to another. Maybe one day when the kids are older.
My husband actually just made a huge pot of chilli for a family who just had a new baby, but he pulled it off with so little effort!! He also made the meal on a Saturday morning, so it didn't affect school etc. So, he is very generous, but is just a better mom than I am !!! (I do actually tell him this. He can get the oil changed in all the cars, a pot of chilli made, a leak fixed in the washer, while watching little kids and other things accomplished at the same time all in the space of two hours!!!!! It really is miraculous, so this time that the meal opportunity came along, I asked him if he would mind doing it and he is just so much more efficient!! )
Anyway, as far as the mom's time to herself, I think there are seasons. When I think back to all the time I had when I just had a few kids and I thought I had no time, I have to laugh. I can barely keep up on the things I really DO have to do now!. I used to try to take a mother's sabbath day as noted in the book, and it was fun, but I noticed when I came back that the noise and chaos got to me more than if I had just stayed immersed in it and got a handle on it. So, I stopped taking one reguarly.
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Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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CrunchyMom
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JodieLyn wrote:
Lindsay, it's not every Saturday, it's every other Saturday. And she schedules her times for confession and spiritual advisor etc during that time as well.
The saturdays in between are the ones her dh has though she says he usually stays home.
It's still way more time than I need. But as was said, it's working for her family.
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Thanks! I wouldn't want to misrepresent her. I think that what put the every Saturday idea in my head was thinking that if her husband did take the alternate Saturdays, that would mean not being together on any Saturdays.
I think I actually prefer to spend what time I can with my husband even if my children are going to be around (not that those taking time away don't like their husbands or anything, lol).
We do have a small group of local Catholic moms who regularly go to First Saturday mass and go to Breakfast at a diner afterward. It is a nice time, and I don't do it every month, but I think that once every month or two is enough for me, personally. And I'm not sure I would deem it *necessary* at that.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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lilangels
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Dear Kim,
You said: "My husband actually just made a huge pot of chilli for a family who just had a new baby, but he pulled it off with so little effort!! He also made the meal on a Saturday morning, so it didn't affect school etc. So, he is very generous, but is just a better mom than I am !!! "
That made me laugh! My husband is a better mom than me when it comes to cooking efficiently. It takes me hours - I always make it complicated and nutritionally perfect - and the kitchen is a disaster. Then it needs cleaning! One time my husband also did the meal for a family in need. He is a great Italian cook and so he was making us lasagna - he bought an extra disposable pan and made a second lasagna for a family whose Mom was ill. It was a peice of cake for him at the time. Thanks for reminding me about that. I try to look out for pleas for help that are really serious ones - like a recent cancer case my husband delivered for too - and he is all for helping out with those. I don't ask him about the ones which are more "nice to have helps" because as we've all been saying we'll get to helping with that in a different season of life but some pleas for assistance are vital ones.
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Pax Christi,
Barbara
Mom to 4 DD's (12, 10, 7 & 5) and 1 DS (21 months)
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10 Bright Stars
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Barbara,
That is funny! My husband made no mess either!! I had gone to Mass and run an errand or two, and he honestly was changing oil and then showed me the pot of chill in a completely clean kitchen although he had chopped onions, green peppers etc. all in under 2 hours! I was dumbfounded since even the kids complain about how messy the kitchen is when I finish cooking!!! I wish I could harness his skills in my homemaking! I must admit that when I tried to cook for the priests a few times when we had a sign up sheet for that, I would honestly cook ALL day and really, didn't have THAT much to show for it! (i.e just one dish, a salad, maybe homemade rolls and cookies???? What WAS I doing??? )
__________________
Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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lilangels
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Dear Kim - I think you hit the nail on the head " maybe homemade rolls and cookies". I ALMOST put in my last post that when I made dinner for someone it had to have a salad and homemade bread & maybe homemade desert too! And when I almost typed that I thought like it might sound like I was suggesting my husbands meal was inadequate.....but there it is. The man is thinking big picture - give main dish, help family - we are thinking...but they need their vegetables...and those poor kids will want some desert to alleviate the stress they are under for whatever crisis or new baby or whatever is going on in the house....AND I'll write out detailed reheating instructions like the person is an idiot when hubby would just hand it to them and trust that "they'll figure it out". Hmmmm....
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Pax Christi,
Barbara
Mom to 4 DD's (12, 10, 7 & 5) and 1 DS (21 months)
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10 Bright Stars
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Barbara,
Would you roll over laughing if I told you I DID whip up a very quick batch of homemade corn bread muffins to go on the side with his chilli, and I had a sugar cookie mix which I "dressed up" with almond extract and added those in too!!!!!!!!! I guess I couldn't leave well enough alone!!!
__________________
Kim married to Bob (22y)
Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
Isabelle and Sophia 8,
Gabrielle 6,
William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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JodieLyn
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Barbara and Kim,
Would it help you to know that one of my favorite meals that was brought to me after a birth.. wasn't a meal at all. My neighbor happened to be in Safeway when their roasted whole chickens went on sale in the evening. And she brought one to me. I don't think we had it for dinner.. but I got to have chicken salad sandwiches for lunch for several days from it. And I really LIKE chiciken salad sandwiches 
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Karen T
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I've been reading these posts about making meals and have to chime in. Most of the time, I try to make something that can be done along with our own meal, like an extra lasagne, spaghetti sauce, chili, baked chicken, etc. But, I did realize last year that sometimes, I am stricken with pride, and I am trying to show off a bit with whatever I take. So I've been trying to let go of that, and last summer when one of our homeschool moms was moving across town, I just picked up several packages of sliced deli cold cuts and cheeses, bakery bread, lettuce and tomato, and a container of ice cream, along with some paper plates and utensils as needed, since I wasn't sure what all would be unpacked yet. I figured with her dh still going back and forth to the old house to finish cleaning up and people in and out, that something cold would work best. The mom really thanked me and confirmed that it worked much better for them at that moment than a big fancy cooked meal would have done.
btw, lest anyone think I took pride in figuring that out, no, it wasn't even my original idea - someone had done it for us once during an illness and it was just as good as a cooked meal, and actually a nice change from the usual casseroles brought!
Karen T
p.s. NOT suggesting anyone else has that problem with pride in cooking for others, but I definitely did/do
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lilangels
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Kim - I did roll over laughing. We sound too alike!
Karen - I don't know that its really pride in too bad a way. I mean who wants to serve people food they'll think is awful!!??!! And there is something so primal about knowing people are enjoying your cooking.
Jodie - Good point - there are short cuts and sometimes they are just the thing. I've never let anyone bring us meals because my husband cooks when I have babies but I'd imagine you can only eat so many lasagnas and casseroles!
Thanks for the fun conversation!
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Pax Christi,
Barbara
Mom to 4 DD's (12, 10, 7 & 5) and 1 DS (21 months)
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PDyer
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Sally Clarkson had an (I think ) marvelous blog post recently about mothers caring for themselves, each in their own individual way. I thought this group might enjoy it...
Rest and Peace --ahhhhhh!
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Patty
Mom of ds (7/96) and dd (9/01) and two angels (8/95 and 6/08)
Life at Home
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Sarah M
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Thanks for the link, Patty. What a great article! I especially liked this:
My real desire in writing this article, though, is to give moms permission to be themselves. There is no "one right way". Each of you has a different puzzle to solve--different children's personalities, husbands and even a different personality yourself. Some of you are introverts and some extroverts. But the bottom line is, that as a wise woman, you need to figure out how you can best make it in the long run--loving God and loving your family.
Sally really articulates well that we are not called to anyone else's plan--we are called to strive for holiness and to love God the best way we can. This balances Holly's book really well for me. In her book, Holly is explaining her "rule" according to what God called her to. My daily rhythm will look different than hers because, as Sally says so eloquently in this post,
there is grace for each mom to conduct her own symphony, so to speak, with her family, circumstances and children in mind. "It is for freedom that Christ set us free, therefore, keep standing firm that you may not be subject to a yoke of slavery."
Thanks for the food for thought!
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Mother's Rule of Life
