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Connections
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| Posted: Nov 26 2008 at 5:50pm | IP Logged
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I have two younger sons (6 and 7) so my experience is limited (i.e. take what I have to contribute with a grain of salt) but Willa's last post really resonates with me because I am just figuring out that I need to look at the individual needs of each of my children. I was hoping (since they are less than a year apart) that I would simply be able to do the same things with both of them and we would go through our days happy and content. Well, they both do NOT learn the same way. Sometimes, what one thrives on, the other approaches with distaste.
We still do quite a bit together and the invitation is always there to join in the activity at hand, but I am tailoring different parts of the day to each of them now. I realize it's OK (and even beneficial) to spend time with one, while the other does something on his own.
Also, (in thinking about the issue of idleness) I have to balance how much I lead activities throughout the day. I have actually found that when I get more "structured," they lose some of their initiative and seem to have a harder time filling in the moments of "down" time productively.
It is as if they are waiting for me to direct the next activity. It is an ebb and flow of my leading and them leading. Of group activity and one on one. Of time with Mom and time alone. Of input and output.
I am at my best when I am either engaged with them or I am doing something else but I am at the ready. I need to be attentive to know when they have gone from constructive activities to, well, less than constructive activities.
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Blessings,
Tracey
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Leonie
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| Posted: Nov 27 2008 at 2:58pm | IP Logged
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BrendaPeter wrote:
So, how do unschoolers deal with idleness? |
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We never have time to be idle. 
Truly, I just involve my kids in my life and try to be involved in theirs. I am a busy persosn, I like DOING and volunteering and it is a well known fact in our family, from the time the kids have been babies and toddlers, that everyone ends up getting involved in Mum's things. 
To me, this sharing of lives and activities is ideal in unschooling. I don't assign bookwork but I say - hey I have to work on the parish newsletter. Can someone help me with layout? Does someone else want to bake a cake for tomorrow's morning tea after French class? What are your plans?
We do have structure in our day and week. It is just not school structure, iykwim. 
I work part time. I run a business. The kids help me with that - I pay them, of course. They come to work and to meetings with me. We have French class here. We have homeschool ice skating. Many other activities. We have regular masses we attend and which the kids serve at during the week. We have regular chore times and pick up and clean up. We have visitors most Wednesdays.We read about the saints every day. We try to do extra religion reading on Wednesdays.
I strew a lot. Rght now, it is an art cube of Monet and an interesting candle on thr table. A book on the table about Japan ( I am going to Japan for work next week). Near the computers, the Lamb's Shakespeare re-tellings. Near the DVD player, the DVD Linnea in Monet's Garden. In the sitting room, the French version of a Tintin book...Our monthly bulletin board...In the car, the Lingua Angelica CD..
This ia a real life structure for us. Again, we build in our want tos and need tos, and, hopefully, some down time, amid this structure.
I find, wth unschooling, that my family's biggest problem is building in enough down time. Time to do nothing and to think and dream. My kids read a lot, though, and love computer games, so maybe the down time just happens naturally, too.
Some rambled thoughts .. 
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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BrendaPeter
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| Posted: Nov 27 2008 at 8:06pm | IP Logged
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Leonie wrote:
BrendaPeter wrote:
So, how do unschoolers deal with idleness? |
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We never have time to be idle.
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Thank you so much Leonie. I was hoping you would comment. What you wrote is actually very helpful.
Unlike your family, we're pretty much homebodies, partly because our kids are younger than yours and partly because I get very frazzled by too much activity, especially outside the home. Honestly I was exhausted after reading your post . I'm actually a pretty high-energy person, believe it or not, and I've tried for years to introduce all kinds of new & interesting ideas to my dc but searching the library website for books to strew, choosing activities, etc. left me feeling very scattered & dissipated. I also found that doing those things took me away from my daily duties and didn't help my relationship with my dh who expects (and rightly so  ) domestic tranquility.
The majority of my days include domestic responsibilities. I often comment that even if my dc were in school everyday, I'd be quite busy! While I include the kids quite a bit, they do have plenty of pockets of time (especially my older 2 ds). Also some children respond very well to being included and others are not as interested.
As this thread is evolving, I'm realizing that different temperaments are more prone to idleness than others. Looking back the idleness issue was with one child more than the others.
The other big issue that I think I referred to in one post was the overall lack of discipline and direction without some sort of structured accountability, i.e the tendency not to do things that are uninteresting or challenging. I think I understand unschooling enough to know that these are areas that should be discussed with the children and that, as mentors, parents can offer encouragement in an effort to "inspire not require". There's no doubt in my mind that that particular method is WAY more work for mom (& dad) than simply handing out an assignment so I have tremendous respect for parents who follow that path as a rule. At this point, I think we've found a happy middle ground to do a bit of both.
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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hereinantwerp
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| Posted: Nov 28 2008 at 6:06pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
I think as kids reach just about that age, they start realizing that some goals are worthwhile for secondary purposes. For example, my daughter did not like math. There was one year she did not do more than a few lessons in math, because it was such a struggle for both of us. Later she realized that if she wanted to get to college -- which she DID -- she would have to master that level of math. So she did, and she eventually grew to respect math and even like it. I did not make her do math or even tell her directly how she would need it. We just discussed a lot of things to do with life plans and she did her own research and figured it out for herself. ETA I think she also realized she had a space in her life where math ought to be -- and she didn't want to have that empty space permanently. I think a young teenager usually notices that kind of thing when given the opportunity, and that's probably why DeMille talks of the age of 14-15.
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This totally makes sense to me!
I think it can be a bit hard to wait until they are older to work out this sort of thing though because, even if they are small and unconcerned for the future--WE look ahead, and want the best for them, and we start worrying!
But a motivated youth can learn a lot of things very fast, if they are willing and motivated. A very different thing than being "forced" through math pages at young and resistant ages.
Honestly--I think the most important "lessons" lately in our home, for the kids and for me, are the relational ones. Working out conflicts, reaching out to neighbors and others, persevering to learn a desired skill that becomes frustrating (with encouragement from mom or dad!), the FELT experience of being loved, engaged with, cared about-----these are far more important for success in life than any isolated academic knowlege or skill. As I have let go of much of the academic structure (and time and worry that went with it), I'm finding I have a lot more focus and intention in these other areas. And in a way doesn't even have much to do with being in school or not in school, because the same thing is happening with my older son who is schooled. I've also been quite surprised at how naturally some of the "academic work" is happening, albeit sporadically--especially reading and writing.
I feel like I'm slowly evolving into this unschooling thing, and learning so much right now. In a nutshell the *best* of unschooling just seems like--"being fully engaged with the moment and with my kids", and I can see how goals and structures, when they are ready for them, is simply a part of that larger conversation or process. I feel like that is kind of happening with my oldest. Basketball was his goal, which in this little town meant school----but other personal and academic goals are still being talked over and worked out at home.
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Angela Nelson
Mother to Simon (13), Calvin (9), and Lyddie Rose (3)
my blog: live and learn
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hereinantwerp
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| Posted: Nov 28 2008 at 6:15pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
With my first born child, I got into classical education... only later did I realize he was a natural classical-learner type. I must have intuited this and gone with the style because it appealed to both of our natural preferences. Unfortunately, I over-extended it a bit and tried to apply it to his brother who was a very different type. On the bright side, I was inconsistent, and didn't do as much harm as I could have. I gave him enough room to learn his own way, even though at the time I felt I was going off track and not following through.
I wonder if some of our "changing tracks" is actually adjusting to our childrens' tracks. That doesn't have to mean reading and researching all the time.... that's how *I* do it, but not everyone learns by researching and reading like that.
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This makes a lot of sense to me, too, and is encouraging to think about. My firstborn was the same way--very naturally academic. Now my 2nd is so opposite. Interesting how a mother might adapt herself even internally to each child without even consciously realizing it---
although each has allowed me to explore and adapt in different ways. I enjoyed learning a lot of interesting facts with my oldest. Now I am enjoying a much more creative, hands-on vein with my middle son! It's propelled me to learn to knit and start sewing again, because he wanted to--how fun! We're listening to lots of classical music because he's doing violin (tried with my oldest but he never took to it!), and doing more art projects. Thanks for helping me see this in a positive way! Makes me wonder what my younger one will be like??
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Angela Nelson
Mother to Simon (13), Calvin (9), and Lyddie Rose (3)
my blog: live and learn
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hereinantwerp
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| Posted: Nov 28 2008 at 6:35pm | IP Logged
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Leonie wrote:
We never have time to be idle.
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I find this increasingly true in my life, too.
Partly I've been undergoing a lot of healing in my life, and I am reaching out more and "coming out of myself" more, more engaged with neighbors, church, community, which is making me busier. Partly it is my boys getting older and getting involved in many more things--swim team, basketball, violin, scouts, 4-H, friends at church they want to schedule to see--all that means we have more places to run to and at these places we meet, and work with, others.
For younger ages and stages, I like the Waldorf ideas about structure which are more about a "routine" than a tight schedule. Just doing different things at different times of the day, and during different seasons.
I've been in seasons of life where we DID have too much "down time", and the ugly kind of idleness--especially when we were overseas and very isolated. In those cases, I think mom and dad have to call on extra resources of creativity to provide activities and things that make life fun and engaging, (there were lots of museums, art galleries, etc. over there, and I wish now we'd gone to more of them!), and learning happens. Because of depression and etc. I did not always have it in me to do that, though!
I didn't like this new "busy" life at first, I'm more of a homebody and felt averse to being "too busy", but it is growing on me and I can see some good, healthy results in my kids (and in myself) as they engage more with the world around them, and it lends a "natural structure" in our school b/c we have these different scheduled events to be at, so other things happen around those. I still need "down/quiet time" though, and make sure we have it! NOT going to school or keeping up with a rigorous academic schedule helps a lot!
Some things, like 4-H and scouts, naturally lend themselves to schoolish activity--writing reports, or keeping track of money earned at a recent fundraiser, for instance. It's nice when "school" arises naturally from "life" like this.
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Angela Nelson
Mother to Simon (13), Calvin (9), and Lyddie Rose (3)
my blog: live and learn
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: Unschooling - Dealing with Idleness
