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VanessaVH
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I am not a frequent poster here but I really need some help. I have 3yo and 1yo sons. My husband and I differ greatly on discipline styles and I am not sure how much of an issue this should be.
I am not opposed to spanking, but I think he takes it too far, especially for 3yo. An example of this would be when DS was acting up at my parents the other day at the table (spitting out his tongue and food) DH reached over and smacked his face quite hard. (I would have prefered that this be handled by giving a time out) My parents are upset, this isn't the first time he has discipled DS there and they think he is being overly harsh and going to harm his spirit.
DH and I have discussed discipline many times and although we agree that discipline is important, we can't agree on what should be expected behavior from a 3yo. He has told me he is working on being more patient, I am just not seeing much progress. I am not sure where to go next. I don't think he would read a book on it. (although I would if you know of a good Catholic one) But any advice or backing on not being too harsh from Catholic Church teaching or someplace else which would carry some weight??
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Bridget
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I think this is a great dad book to read on discipline. It was written by a Catholic dad. Comes on CD too.
It approaches discipline from a training point of view and does endorse spanking but in a controlled, non-angry manner, emphasizing bonding with your child and gaining their heart.
Legacy by Steve Wood
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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teachingmyown
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Vanessa,
It is actually a huge issue, in my opinion. It will only get worse as the kids get bigger. Early in my marriage my husband was also very harsh (yes, your dh was being too harsh)and it ate me up. I truly believe the damage it did between him and our oldest is the basis for many problems we have with that child.
That said, you need to find male writers that advocate a gentler approach. No James Dobson or Steve Wood. I really like Ray Guerendi. He is very no nonsense, not touchy feely, but I think practical and not too harsh.
3 yrs old is so young. I know it is hard to see that with your first. He is begging for attention and loving correction, not punishment. And some kids react to harshness with even worse behavior, mine did, which then fuels the parental fire and things just get worse.
Although not Catholic, two books I love about parenting are Children the Challenge (great when you have little ones!) and Parenting with Love and Logic. (There is nothing "logical" about slapping a child in the face. The logical response is to remove him from the table because his behavior is not acceptable and the other people eating don't want to see him spit food. No yelling or hitting. Just pick him up and take him to another room, or just remove his food.)
I think we can all look back and see many mistakes we made with our first. It is a huge learning process! Your dh is learning too. He may just be parenting the way he was parented. or may have trouble understanding child development.
One more thing, do not disagree with your dh in front of your son! It is so important that you two present a united front. I know how hard this is when you hurt for the child and you have to keep discussing with your dh, but do it behind closed doors.
Most importantly, pray for a change of heart for your dh!
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Mary Chris
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This is a book I like, not catholic, that is helpful with age appropiate behavior.
Your Three Year Old
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mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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teachingmyown
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Now, that's interesting! Bridget and I were typing at the same time, she recommending Steve Wood and I telling you to avoid him.
Bridget, I always thought he was pretty tough, especially on little ones. Maybe I'm mistaken?
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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SuzanneG
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I was just going to suggest the same book/resource as Bridget did.
You can call the Family Resource Center (aka: Dads.org). They are very helpful in finding the right audio resource for you, as they have many.
I remember reading / hearing from Steve Wood (who is not against spanking) that a child should not be "spanked" on the face. There is a reason why spanking happens on the bum.
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| That said, you need to find male writers that advocate a gentler approach. No James Dobson or Steve Wood. |
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Perhaps. Although, I wonder if men who are "more strict" would not at all relate to the gentler approach? Just a thought and something to consider.
One thing that has helped us greatly is having our neighbor next door problem solve with us when we didn't know what to do about an issue, or if we disagreed or were uncertain how to handle something. She is a really good problem solver. Keep your eyes open for someone like this.
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Suzanne in ID
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Martha
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how about agreeing to set some standard always in use rules?
here's some of ours:
#1 spankings are for palm of hands only once they are out of diapers. spankings are almost never given to dc under 2 yr old, and then it wouldn't be much of a spanking, more of a pat on the diaper.
#2 if it's not a physical offense, it doesn't get a physical response. removing from company is more appropriate. so kicking his sibling might net a spanking, but spitting food out gets him removed from the table.
#3 when in doubt ask the crazy nut that's home with the kid all day what she does about it.  IOW, tell him it's okay to ask you what you do about it. Most things do not require instantly being dealt with. Pulling mom aside for 2 minutes isn't going to hurt most of the time. A LOT of discipline issues arise between parents simply because one of them is not there to know the details of behavior and the kid's cues as well as mom does.
#4 NEVER argue in front of the kid or anyone else for that matter. (liek your parents!) It encourages the child to manipulate you, and undermines and belittles the other parent, however unintentional. Not to mention it can create a me vs you situation between dh and dw - which is never conductive to good marriage or good parenting.
HTH. 
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SuzanneG
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VanessaVH wrote:
He has told me he is working on being more patient, I am just not seeing much progress. |
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It's difficult to see progress in this area when a parent doesn't have many opportunities to "practice" ....whereas, you have MANY opportunities  .
I try to make an effort to tell my dh about things (opportunities ) that happened throughout the day and how I handled them. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad, and then reflect how it couldn've been better. I also make a great effort to ask him how I could've handled a situation better.
This is NOT in my nature ...I don't like to talk and re-live my crazy days  .
But I realized that it is actually HELPFUL to my husband to do this, so that he sees (hears) how I'm handling things (even if it's often less than mediocre) and it gives him insight into the dc's behavior since I'm with them all day and he's not. It also opens up more opportunities for discussion aobut things. And, it gives me an opportunity to "drop hints" without seeming bossy or superior.
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Bridget
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teachingmyown wrote:
Now, that's interesting! Bridget and I were typing at the same time, she recommending Steve Wood and I telling you to avoid him.
Bridget, I always thought he was pretty tough, especially on little ones. Maybe I'm mistaken? |
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I didn't get that from his book. It seems to be much more about gaining the child's heart and forming a close relationship.
He does discuss how to spank (not in anger, only on the bum, who should not spank) and why he thinks it is valuable.
I don't know, but for us, we have tried to raise our children very much the way he teaches in Legacy. After about 6 or 7 we have very few discipline problems. Other than occasional lapses in judgment, so far our teens and pre-teens are fabulous.
Legacy is such a 'man's man' book even my dh read it and liked it , and he doesn't read parenting books. That's why I thought Vanessa's dh might be willing to take a look at it.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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teachingmyown
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I am not familiar with that book. I have only heard some talks by him and heard second hand from others who had listened to him. So, I defer to Bridget's advice, which I always value!
I agree with what Suzanne said about the "more strict" dads needing to hear/read someone they can identify with as opposed to someone to soft. I love Gary Smalley, but my dh just couldn't quite get into his parenting style. That is why I like Dr Ray. He is still tough, but some of his approaches are more creative.
I love what Martha wrote! If you can sit with dh during a peaceful moment and try to set out some guidelines then it saves you both from trying to discipline in the moment. I know that when I try to discipline in the midst of an episode without having a plan, I am often at a loss for the appropriate response.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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JodieLyn
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A big thing some people can confuse patience with putting up with unacceptable behavior longer.. so then they blow up at the end regardless.. the point is to act immediately on a behavior so that you aren't angry/annoyed when you *react*.
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VanessaVH
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Thanks for all the responses! I am praying for the best way to aproach this with him. I did stumble on Steve Wood's site in the search engine, I knew I had heard good things about him. Maybe I will order his book or tapes after what you all said
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sarahb
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Smacking in the face is really not spanking. In fact your parents are very right to be concerned.
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monique
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Bridget wrote:
After about 6 or 7 we have very few discipline problems. Other than occasional lapses in judgment, so far our teens and pre-teens are fabulous.
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I've thought about this since yesterday since I read it and I just have to say...
Wow! I think I need to come take lessons from you on parenting, Bridget.
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Martha
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sarahb wrote:
| Smacking in the face is really not spanking. In fact your parents are very right to be concerned. |
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I just want to be clear that I don't think it's spanking either.
My only point was to reference appropriate physical discipline. If you have a rule that it's only appropriate on the hand in certain situations, then it automaticly eliminates all other issues, kwim?
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Martha
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sarahb
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I wish that were the case. For some people, making rules which say you can only hit the child in one place under these circumstances really doesn't help.
Let us pray for self control for this father.
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Mary Chris
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Vanessa,
You have been given a lot of good guidance. Learning how to parent is a life long endeavor, I feel once I have one thing down, my children are on to the next. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with each changing stage. In a learning process everyone makes mistakes. I am sure that I have made some doozies.
What happened at dinner the other night will not destroy your sons spirit. I am sure that your husband wants the best for your children. Men and women are wired differently, dads don't have the same nurturing genes that we moms do. Sometimes dads just react.
Now while I think one time will not destroy your sons spirit I do think
sitting down with your husband and setting some guidelines is a great idea. It is really important to be on the same page. Also, get some of the resources and find all the audio tapes that you can, I think tapes/CD's work better for dads. Watch how your friends discipline their children and try to surround yourselves with like minded parents.
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mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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folklaur
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I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. It must be difficult - and scary - to watch a grown man lose it enough to hit a small child in the face.
I don't think hitting in the face is ever, ever an appropriate response. (Actually, personally, I don't think hitting of any kind is appropriate.)
There are people who would call CPS if they saw someone do that to such a young child.
Your DH really, really needs to find a better way to deal with his frustration. What he is doing is not acceptable.
I'm sorry.
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JodieLyn
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Quote:
| we can't agree on what should be expected behavior from a 3yo |
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This could be the key thing. I was just remembering how my step-dad made some comments about what my *small* (under 3 yr old) children were "allowed to get away with".. after talking to him for a bit I realized that he was remembering how he was supposed to act as a child.. and that's fine but.. it would be very rare for someone to remember that much of being 3 yrs and younger.. so he had to have been thinking of when he was more like 5/6.. and setting aside the whole physical discipline issue (which is between the parents and God).. the reaction that was described would be in proportion to a 5/6 yr old deliberately disobeying the rules.
To assume one instance of overreaction is abuse.. can be rather overboard. We can't even really tell what one person means by "quite hard" vs what we assume it means..
Some people would call CPS over a single swat on a diapered bottom too..
Yes there are people out there that are abusive and yes they do need different help to overcome that.. but to assume that a father that doesn't know what to expect from a 3 yr old is abusive could be jumping to conclusions. Not that it should be totally discounted.. but we should be reacting in charity.. not judging and condemning someone we don't even know.
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folklaur
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JodieLyn wrote:
To assume one instance of overreaction is abuse.. can be rather overboard. We can't even really tell what one person means by "quite hard" vs what we assume it means..
Some people would call CPS over a single swat on a diapered bottom too..
Yes there are people out there that are abusive and yes they do need different help to overcome that.. but to assume that a father that doesn't know what to expect from a 3 yr old is abusive could be jumping to conclusions. Not that it should be totally discounted.. but we should be reacting in charity.. not judging and condemning someone we don't even know. |
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I didn't use the word "abuse" at all in my post. I did say that some people would react to a grown man hitting a 3yo in the face with a call to CPS. Yes, some people also would do the same with a swat on the bottom - and that would be an over reaction.
And if someone were to call CPS - then it really isn't just between the parents and God anymore. So yes, it is something I personally would worry about.
I'm sorry if I said what I said in what was perceived as being said in an uncharitable way. I was simply responding with my opinion to her post - I was not upset, or accusatory in my thoughts, and if my post came across that way I apologize.
But I still stand by the fact that I believe that a grown man hitting a 3yo in the face is wrong. I can not see a way to see it as "okay", even if it "wasn't that hard." That child is barely just out of toddlerhood. The adult is a grown man. She even said her parents were concerned about his reaction, and that this was NOT the first time he had had a reaction like this.
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Topic: Discipline of small children
