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JennGM
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Kathryn UK wrote:
| I'm a very visual learner, and a terrible auditory one. I could only process college lectures by writing extensive notes because then I could see what the lecturer was saying. I have to have absolute mastery of a piece before I can memorise it, and even then I don't feel secure. Mostly I'm just playing for fun so I never get to that mastery stage. |
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Oh my goodness, Kathryn. I could have written that word for word. That's how I learned in college...writing and writing. Then I could remember "seeing it" on the page.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Kathryn UK
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MacBeth wrote:
| Again, it has been my experience that Suzuki trained violinists (or cellists and violists) can easily improvise. I wonder, is it training or talent? I, too, wish I could just jump in and improvise!! Is it too late for us, Jenn? Can we be retrained? Or must we have been born with the gift? |
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We can be retrained, but it's tough  . The UK has a system of music exams, which have a standard format: pieces to perform, sightreading, scales and either aural tests (the usual choice) or keyboard harmony. I learned organ as an adult and when took one of these exams my teacher insisted that I take the keyboard harmony option. I found it a struggle, but it did finally teach me basic improvisation  . I didn't get all that far with it and I'd still much rather have music, but it did prove to me that it can be done.
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Kathryn
Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
The Bookworm
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Kathryn UK
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MacBeth wrote:
| If you are wired to play by note reading, how do you add that extra something--the feeling, emotion, expression-- into the music? When a composer writes "with expression" in the music, how does that translate for someone dependant on sight reading? Are these hard things to teach? Can they be taught? |
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Good question. I know as a child I was fine at the technical bit, but the expression didn't come naturally. Same with Rachel, who just wants to play and not have to worry too much about the finishing touches! I like to think I'm better now, but I'm not sure how much I was taught and how much I just learned. I'd put most of it down to experience of both listening and playing. Getting a sense of how something ought to sound makes a difference. I'll never be great at personal interpretation of a piece, and I'm much happier with baroque than romantic - but at least seeing "with expression" does now make me do something .
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Kathryn
Dh Michael, Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06) (11/07)
The Bookworm
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ALmom
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I think balance of both reading and hearing are necessary and the best teachers find ways to reach the particular dc using techniques from all the great music teacher innovators and traditional pedagogy. Our traditional teacher uses tapes for listening to pieces, uses flashcards for suzuki trained individuals who are phenomenal musicians but never learned how to read music - but not a big deal as these dc are generally still very young violinists whose parents recognized the need to introduce music reading which wasn't being done in Suzuki here. She teaches note-reading to our 8 yo a little at a time and often relates things to him with science terms as he told her his favorite subject was science. I'm sure she uses other techniques with other dc.
Our dd plays piano, violin and organ all at a reasonably high level (not Eastman/Julliard but competitively at the local level, ie concertmaster in violin, concerto competitions on piano and working at a church with organ). Memorization of pieces is required in both piano and violin - not common in organ. In piano, just about everything is memorized as the music often goes too fast for page turns (that's why the pianist has a page turner at chamber concerts where everyone has to be reading music) and even in chamber/accompanying situations, dd says you tend to memorize sections around page turns so that you don't fall apart if your page turner messes up (she once had a page turner turn 2 pages at once on her by mistake). All three instruments have their unique challenges.
Our dd began by playing by ear on the piano - Christmas carols rather well from the radio - on a silly keyboard and had an inborn passion for the whole idea. She wanted wings to play anything and asked to learn to read music. We went with a very traditional teacher whose big emphasis was sight reading (our dd had some technique naturally especially on soft but would never play loudly at first). She was never on a piece longer than 2 weeks and did not have tapes to listen to with this teacher. The teacher would tell her to add more dynamics. Although we continued to listen to recorded classics this teacher did not like them hearing much of the piece ahead of time. Since our dd's goal at this point was to learn how to read music - this was fine and a great technique for learning to read music. Done to exclusion it could produce some clunky sounding music and drive an unmotivated dc away from music (Suzuki, imo, had a point here) because it sounds so ugly. Our 1 dd was not troubled by this - her music always sounded musical. Our 2 dd was like this and sounded clunky unless oldest dd played the piece for her first. We switched to a Suzuki cello for her with a sense that this dc would rapidly hate music unless we took a differnet approach - there were different problems with the Suzuki we got(lack of balance again!). I think you want a balance so you don't clip the dc wings!
When our oldest dd expressed a desire to pursue music professionally - this traditional teacher referred her on. Up to this point, she had not done any memorization (unusual), no competitions and only very informal recitals of whatever piece they had been working on. She had to work a bit at first to develop the memorization, got intense theory and began spending 6 months - 1 year on pieces to perfect them. She developed the ear/interpretation but we are not sure exactly how as this was not emphasized until she was about 13(theory helped her some here and simply listening to pieces with how different professionals had interpreted various pieces and something that just was a part of her). There is something in her that finds music an emotinal outlet. She has always liked musical sounding pieces, but has played more modern pieces to develop her skills. Her new teacher actually intentionally gave her some of these to make her continue sight reading as she said our dd had such a good ear that she would anticipate notes with the classic composers - she tended to want to play different notes with the modern pieces whenever they sounded discordant. Jobs in Protestant churches are great sight reading developers as well as they often change the music on dd on Sunday morning just before service starts.
She also does a lot of improvisation - the young string players conductor has her make up something so the piano part isn't so plain (progression of chords, heavy music theory is one of the things that helps skill in this area it seems). She also just played violin to accompany electric guitar (odd mix) - the guitarists needed something to soften the sound so they could play their self-composed music in the library and she was able to listen to the tape of them playing and make up stuff to go along. She also messes around with composing her own pieces. She never writes it down - (too tedious) just does it and modifies it as she plays it different times from her own memory - now there are computers at the colleges that allow musicians to compose and have the computer automatically print out the music they are composing on the fly. Music theory (something about chord progressions, broken chords and a bunch of stuff that is foreign to me)and enough time and confidence on your instrument to just experiment are helpful - as well as an ear for musicality. But some of it is just plain showmanship. Our dd played a piece she composed for her fellow musicians at a music camp (I was mortified as I thought she ought to play a piano piece showing her technical skill as faculty would be in the audience - a few gentle suggestions and I dropped it as a good, musically illiterate mom). The piece she played was probably not even a grand composition and she knew it would not be impressive to pianists and certainly not to faculty. However, she had a sense of audience - most of the audience were high school vocalists, the performance was an informal talent show for each other before the camp started and most would have had little attention span for lengthy, classical piano pieces (more into rock and jazz). She had been just being silly and composed a piece using all kinds of easy to implement but impressive to watch (to the less knowledgeable) kinds of things and just had a good time. She laughed afterwards, said the faculty wasn't impressed, but she got a standing ovation from the entire student body. She had fun as every student at the camp held her in awe (even the other few pianists had a certain respect for her courage in pulling it off) and everyone knew her from that point on. There is a certain showmanship with the music that comes from confidence - and I'm not sure what mix. How did it develop? All the technical background, exposure to many different kinds of music, etc. But I really think the most important aspect is being around other musicians and just having fun and it just develops after a time. Perhaps someone with more musical background will have a better idea how it happened (and I'm not talking about professional level improvisation, but about comfortable improvisation that allows her to just have fun in varying circumstances). They will also do a spur of the moment trio (Our dd couldn't stand not to try this grand piano in this really fancy house - they were supposed to be playing violin duets, and preceded by a flute player as a charity/ thanks for all the money these high society people donate to the youth orchestra. They cornered the flute before he left and ended up finding music they had all played before (but never together) and on the spot put on a trio performance of piano, violin and flute. I'd never have felt confident of staying really together in a situation like that with no rehearsals or anything - they didn't think a thing of it. Confidence? Not being paranoid as if the world will end if there is a mistake? I don't know - but it made me think of the things that Dr. Suzuki talked about with his students as it was beautiful (and impressive enough that they got their picture in the paper and a call about her trio (I guess it was assumed that it was of long standing). Yet 2 of the 3 students have never had "Suzuki" and I don't know about the flute. Perhaps, their teachers use a lot of techniques that Suzuki was the first to recommend.
She started violin and organ at 13 (late for strings). I wonder if memorization is something that comes with time on the instrument as she will easily memorize a very lengthy piano concerto but finds it more difficult to memorize violin (tends to prefer chamber music and Sonatos so she doesn't have to memorize). I always found this odd as there are tons more black notes in 2 cleffs on the piano where the violin music had fewer notes to the page and in one cleff. Organ is typically not memorized. With organ we have found her strings background helpful - at least the organ professor she worked with really reached her by comparing the hand touch on an organ to the bowing on the violin and dd could make instant improvements) The hardest part for her is in mentally taking out the bottom line on hymns (that she first learned on piano) and playing them with the pedal on organ. We have seen people who can instantly adjust between piano and organ - our daughter likes a brief break to mentally prepare for the different technique. Perhaps some of this comes with time on the instrument.
I think the ear comes with time as well and as someone pointed out - some will begin with note-reading and expand and some will begin with ear and expand. The problem is when one is done to the exclusion of the other well past the normal time of reading or not until you have been on an instrument for so long that you fail to adjust or have created so many bad habits, the task of unlearning becomes so difficult. In either case, with a very passionate individual, they won't give up. It is sad that many will before they've really had time to "grow in love" so to speak.
Our dd who transferred to Suzuki Cello was already 13, so I think that more intense theory or note reading should be included early. She forgot everything she ever learned about reading music from her first teacher. Even playing in orchestra - she simply memorized the pieces after the first practice and never looked at the music again. But then she is bored with the music, cannot read music anymore and got discouraged and wanted to quit. After a year break, she misses Cello (she never missed piano as she couldn't stand the way she sounded). I think we will resume the Cello with Suzuki teacher (who is very good and very insistent on good technique and intonation) and simply do the flash card thing at home ourselves and since the teacher insists that dd should not go ahead in the book, we'll just buy simple, unfamiliar music for her to mess around with on her own to develop her sight reading and to keep her from boredom. Hopefully this will help her get over the hump as a late starter.
I do think it is worth it to a point to start a child in strings young (piano is fine by 9)but I'm still wrestling with the whole idea. Here is the dilemma - it is expensive and eating and paying the house note is a higher priority. I want all the dc to have some music before graduating - however with 6 dc, I cannot afford to start them at 3, 4, 5, even 6. Right now we have 3 dc in music and 3 in vision therapy. If they start in strings, then at some point they will also have to take piano (just to get what they need in our area). There are high school students who teach on the side - my fear here is that they won't pay much attention to technique and I'm not sure if it is just better to wait until we have a professional teacher. Ideally we'd have the professional teacher and hire the high schoolers to be the "Suzuki parent" and model and practice with them (because mom and dad are totally inept - I never could get past the rhythms when I tried to learn with my daughter in Suzuki cello) but then that is way too expensive.
I have a 6 yo who would like to take something (he says piano but I know that wouldn't work yet as his eyes are still a mess and Suzuki strings might really be great for him for a few years). If we do this, we could not possibly rent an instrument, pay for lessons and keep up with other things. How do you guys with large families manage to get your young dc into music? Is it that mom can do the teaching for the first few years?(an impossibility with me). Does it make sense to use a young highschooler for a short time or is it better to wait for a professional teacher?
Yikes I've diverged all over the place and 3yo is throwing things and I have been bad about my duties - my point? You don't want the dc discouraged before they have time to develop and for a time different things may be emphasized to encourage, draw on strengths to build up weaknesses, etc. The problem is when one aspect is left out for so long that the dc no longer has the heart to work on the weakness. I see nothing wrong with people playing by ear and not reading music if that is all they really wanted - what I think does happen is that there is a regret that they are limited and perhaps might have found more help with some other way of teaching. If dc decides that orchestral music isn't really their thing, that is fine. It is a shame that a dc is discouraged because they are used to being on top and then cannot stay and cannot compensate quickly enough and end up dropping something they really liked from frustration.
Beginning violin at 13, it seemed silly not to take advantage of note reading ability and she obviously has rapidly progressed with a somewhat hodge-podge training - using her background, recordings/listening, etc. Many of the strings players that had been playing 9 or 10 years just got discouraged at orchestra level and dropped out. They had wonderful intonation, great expression, but lousy sight reading. I think it is very sad that these very beautiful young people tended to become discouraged (hopefully they at least continue playing for themselves for pleasure - but for at least some they really would have liked to go on but didn't from discouragement and from jitters at auditions (not supposed to happen with Suzuki kids as they are supposed to get used to non-competitive performances and take it matter of course) Macbeth and I had a long discussion before and think the note reading problem was probably due more to the late date at which reading music was introduced and not necessarily to the Suzuki itself. I'm not sure about the reason a number of these Suzuki people in our area absolutely freeze at audition/competitive situations. I suspect it may be due to the very strongly felt anti-competition mentality of the individual teachers and not enough opportunities to perform. We have certainly seen competitiveness out of hand (and would not place our dc in those situations at a young age) but have found the competitions beneficial to all our dc because of the attitude we and their traditional teacher takes - it is about performing in front of a skilled performer and getting pointers on what to do to improve - not about winning or losing. They perform in front of each other in theory class and critique each others pieces - and they have been taught how to do this in a friendly, encouraging and positive way. Their teacher hires an accompaniest for all of her concerto students, takes them all to a college piano professor for a master class (and does the driving as well) and they all get the same amount of time with the accompaniest, etc. and she is genuinely proud of them for playing their personal best- regardless of where they place. If they have a bad day, she recognizes that and doesn't jump on them. Our dd had a very bad recital - I even heard the wrong notes. We don't know what happened - jitters, being overly tired, etc. She had played it perfectly many times. Perhaps overpractice right before performance. Anyways, whatever it was, I distinctly remember the teacher coming up to us after everything was over - in the parking lot and telling us how proud she was of our dd and how far she had come in such a short time. She did not say anything about the particular performance (we all knew it had been horrible). It was an encouraging moment and a sincere complement on something that was true. But this teacher does give all her students the opportunities to do every competition for which they are qualified - if they want to. She also encourages a collaborative attitude amongst her students and while all her concerto students would sincerely love to be the one selected to play with the local, professional orchestra, they all help each other out and are sincerely happy for each others great performances!
Sorry about my divergent questions? Also what is the current opinion about majoring in an instrument. Is one instrument all that can be done well. We are in a situation where one college teacher wants our dd to focus exclusively on piano(piano faculty) and the other recommended double majoring in piano and organ performance(organ faculty). She has to make a decision pretty soon. Our dd knows that 3 has stretched her a bit. Does anyone know about 2?
Janet
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MacBeth
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| Posted: Nov 04 2005 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
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Janet and all--
I truly wish we could have this conversation in person, meet the kids, hear them play, and enjoy the music as we talk!! I am a poor, slow typist, and I do not have time to give this topic justice, feed my kids, drive around, etc...I think I need a personal secretary!! 
ALmom wrote:
| She also does a lot of improvisation - the young string players conductor has her make up something so the piano part isn't so plain (progression of chords, heavy music theory is one of the things that helps skill in this area it seems). She also just played violin to accompany electric guitar (odd mix) - the guitarists needed something to soften the sound so they could play their self-composed music in the library and she was able to listen to the tape of them playing and make up stuff to go along. |
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It's not too uncommon these days, especially in "crossover bands"...Irish/Scottish traditional mixed with rock. We found miking to be a problem, so Libby bought herself an electric fiddle. She plays in my brother's pub band for fun, and does a good deal of improvising, including jazz solos.
Improvising is the part of music I wish I could "do" most of all. All of my kids can do it, vocally as well as instrumentally, and I am so jealous!
ALmom wrote:
| She also messes around with composing her own pieces. She never writes it down - (too tedious) just does it and modifies it as she plays it different times from her own memory - now there are computers at the colleges that allow musicians to compose and have the computer automatically print out the music they are composing on the fly. |
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I was asking a composer/theory teacher at Juilliard about which of these programs is best, and he said Sibelius was the best program, BUT, he continued, always write out the composition by hand first, and then type it into the program for printing. He insists that his students hand in both a manuscript, and a printout of the music. I am not sure if this is an exercise, or if there is any real value, but Libby took his advice. And yes, it is tedious. 
ALmom wrote:
| I thought she ought to play a piano piece showing her technical skill as faculty would be in the audience - a few gentle suggestions and I dropped it as a good, musically illiterate mom |
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Hmmm. Yes, I too have learned to keep my mouth shut  , but my most-unmusical dh usually has some comment, to which the reply is always, "I love you Dad, but you are NOT a musician."
ALmom wrote:
| the performance was an informal talent show for each other before the camp started and most would have had little attention span for lengthy, classical piano pieces (more into rock and jazz). She had been just being silly and composed a piece using all kinds of easy to implement but impressive to watch (to the less knowledgeable) kinds of things and just had a good time. She laughed afterwards, said the faculty wasn't impressed, but she got a standing ovation from the entire student body. She had fun as every student at the camp held her in awe (even the other few pianists had a certain respect for her courage in pulling it off) and everyone knew her from that point on. |
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That is so fun! and isn't that the why of playing music? At the age the girls are now, it's great that they can chose what they wish to play, and have an audience who appreciates their musical offerings.
ALmom wrote:
| There is a certain showmanship with the music that comes from confidence - and I'm not sure what mix. How did it develop? All the technical background, exposure to many different kinds of music, etc. But I really think the most important aspect is being around other musicians and just having fun and it just develops after a time. |
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This goes a long way, but I believe there are some kids who are just naturally musical, and they are going to have an advantage, no matter what Suzuki says about inborn talent not mattering. It clearly matters, as does disposition, ear, and a number of other factors. Exposure to musical peers is a big factor, though, and when the quality of your peers is high, your musicianship will gain momentum. Moreover, it's fun to play with others. I see musicians who who love what they do for a living that it's all leisure. What a blessing!
ALmom wrote:
| They will also do a spur of the moment trio ... on the spot put on a trio performance of piano, violin and flute. I'd never have felt confident of staying really together in a situation like that with no rehearsals or anything - they didn't think a thing of it. Confidence? Not being paranoid as if the world will end if there is a mistake? ... Yet 2 of the 3 students have never had "Suzuki" and I don't know about the flute. Perhaps, their teachers use a lot of techniques that Suzuki was the first to recommend. |
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I don't know if it's a Suzuki thing so much as a confidence thing. The kids here fall together very easily, as you describe, Janet, and it's just amazing to me, as I can't do it (heck, even with the music, in the back of the section, I am still a nervous wreck about playing in public). The trio sounds exciting for all involved, players, and audience alike. I recall watching a video of two violinists playing the Bach Double at the Casals festival in PR, and admiring their confidence, poise, and music, as a package. It was wonderful...so much more than just notes played well!
Sometimes, it's "chemistry", too. Over the summer, Libby had the opportunity to play in 6 different chamber groups, and one simply did not work. The "people chemistry" did not work, though each of the players did well in other groups.
ALmom wrote:
| She started violin and organ at 13 (late for strings). I wonder if memorization is something that comes with time on the instrument as she will easily memorize a very lengthy piano concerto but finds it more difficult to memorize violin (tends to prefer chamber music and Sonatos so she doesn't have to memorize). I always found this odd as there are tons more black notes in 2 cleffs on the piano where the violin music had fewer notes to the page and in one cleff. |
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It may even be a physical thing. Her position and technique on the piano, her first instrument, grew with her ability to memorize. Perhaps the late start, like a foreign language, gives her a piano "accent" when she plays the violin. I am just thinking...no real facts here.
ALmom wrote:
| Even playing in orchestra - she simply memorized the pieces after the first practice and never looked at the music again. But then she is bored with the music, cannot read music anymore and got discouraged and wanted to quit. |
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My kids deliberately will not practice easy orchestral parts for just that reason (the oldest two help out in younger orchestras when a cellist or violist is needed). They would memorize the pieces so quickly, they would be bored to tears, so they instead sight read and enjoy the challenge. Of course, this does not hold true for harder parts, though I know that they are only practicing the very difficult, exposed parts, and reading the rest confidently.
ALmom wrote:
| I think we will resume the Cello with Suzuki teacher (who is very good and very insistent on good technique and intonation) and simply do the flash card thing at home ourselves and since the teacher insists that dd should not go ahead in the book, we'll just buy simple, unfamiliar music for her to mess around with on her own to develop her sight reading and to keep her from boredom. |
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There's so much music out there to chose from, this should work well. I found some great music books online from the 20s for the kids when they were learning to sight read, and the passages, no more than 3 or 4 lines (they were only about 6 when they were learning to read) were just the right length.
ALmom wrote:
| I want all the dc to have some music before graduating - however with 6 dc, I cannot afford to start them at 3, 4, 5, even 6. Right now we have 3 dc in music and 3 in vision therapy. If they start in strings, then at some point they will also have to take piano (just to get what they need in our area). There are high school students who teach on the side - my fear here is that they won't pay much attention to technique and I'm not sure if it is just better to wait until we have a professional teacher. Ideally we'd have the professional teacher and hire the high schoolers to be the "Suzuki parent" and model and practice with them (because mom and dad are totally inept - I never could get past the rhythms when I tried to learn with my daughter in Suzuki cello) but then that is way too expensive. |
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I am anxious to hear what folks do. I justify the music expense by looking at the money we save by homeschooling. I know one large family (more than 10) where the older kids teach the younger kids.
As for rental costs, we purchase the instruments. It's much less expensive to buy a good instrument, pass it down, and even make a bit of profit on a fine smaller instrument.
ALmom wrote:
| Many of the strings players that had been playing 9 or 10 years just got discouraged at orchestra level and dropped out. They had wonderful intonation, great expression, but lousy sight reading. |
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This just should not happen. It's so sad!
ALmom wrote:
| I'm not sure about the reason a number of these Suzuki people in our area absolutely freeze at audition/competitive situations. I suspect it may be due to the very strongly felt anti-competition mentality of the individual teachers and not enough opportunities to perform. We have certainly seen competitiveness out of hand (and would not place our dc in those situations at a young age) but have found the competitions beneficial to all our dc because of the attitude we and their traditional teacher takes - it is about performing in front of a skilled performer and getting pointers on what to do to improve - not about winning or losing. |
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That's interesting. I had not really thought about the jittery part of things (except in myself). I have seen some kids get nervous in their pre-teens (11 and 12 year olds seem to suffer the most), and come out of it shortly thereafter. While Suzuki is not competitive within individual schools or programs, Suzuki kids are entering competitions and going to auditions all over the city. Competitions are always very goal oriented--to improve playing, bringing it to the next level, pushing towards self-best. And if you win, or get accepted into a program, that's great! But it is about the music, always, not the prize.
ALmom wrote:
| Their teacher hires an accompaniest for all of her concerto students, takes them all to a college piano professor for a master class (and does the driving as well) and they all get the same amount of time with the accompaniest, etc. and she is genuinely proud of them for playing their personal best- regardless of where they place. If they have a bad day, she recognizes that and doesn't jump on them. Our dd had a very bad recital - I even heard the wrong notes. We don't know what happened - jitters, being overly tired, etc. She had played it perfectly many times. Perhaps overpractice right before performance. Anyways, whatever it was, I distinctly remember the teacher coming up to us after everything was over - in the parking lot and telling us how proud she was of our dd and how far she had come in such a short time. She did not say anything about the particular performance (we all knew it had been horrible). It was an encouraging moment and a sincere complement on something that was true. But this teacher does give all her students the opportunities to do every competition for which they are qualified - if they want to. She also encourages a collaborative attitude amongst her students and while all her concerto students would sincerely love to be the one selected to play with the local, professional orchestra, they all help each other out and are sincerely happy for each others great performances! |
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Sounds like a wonderful teacher. I wish all kids could have that kind of an experience.
ALmom wrote:
Also what is the current opinion about majoring in an instrument. Is one instrument all that can be done well. We are in a situation where one college teacher wants our dd to focus exclusively on piano(piano faculty) and the other recommended double majoring in piano and organ performance(organ faculty). She has to make a decision pretty soon. Our dd knows that 3 has stretched her a bit. Does anyone know about 2?
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This is a particularly topical question. First, last year Juilliard eliminated double majors for all pre-college musicians. Libby takes "secondary" lessons in cello, but may not major in both violin and cello. OTOH, they require all violin students to learn the viola. Over the summer, Libby auditioned for Tony Elliot on cello, and he told Don he was not going to accept her into his studio, as he feels very strongly that one should play only one string instrument (he had played both cello and bass, and found the techniques too different and conflicting). He explained all of this to Don after Mass the first weekend of the summer music program. Then, he and Don had a chat about how difficult it was to be a Catholic, and a professional musician. The next morning, he called Libby, and accepted her as a cello student, saying, "Why don't we just play and have fun...no technique, just music." We all felt that the Catholic connection was a big help! But I digress. I wonder if piano and organ are akin to cello and bass? Is this a similar "accent" issue?
FWIW, Libby has dropped piano, except for pleasure, as 3 stretched her a bit, too. Now she has borrowed an electric bass and is playing that, too, but goodness, there are only so many hours in the day, you know?
__________________
God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
MacBeth's Blog 
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Kathryn UK
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| Posted: Nov 05 2005 at 3:38am | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
| I want all the dc to have some music before graduating - however with 6 dc, I cannot afford to start them at 3, 4, 5, even 6. |
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MacBeth wrote:
I am anxious to hear what folks do. I justify the music expense by looking at the money we save by homeschooling. I know one large family (more than 10) where the older kids teach the younger kids.
As for rental costs, we purchase the instruments. It's much less expensive to buy a good instrument, pass it down, and even make a bit of profit on a fine smaller instrument. |
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At the moment we only pay for one set of music lessons - piano for Rachel. Ideally I would like to have started Hannah with piano lessons this year, but financially it just wasn't possible  . If there weren't dance classes to pay for, we could do more music lessons, but so far music is second string to dance for both girls so dropping dance isn't an option (though Rachel looks as though she may be heading for a "double major" ). At the moment we are trying to balance the two as best we can given our budget. Rachel would love to dance competitively, but the cost of extra lessons, outfits and competition fees would tip the balance too far.
We have been very lucky with community-based music. Our local education authority runs a Saturday morning music school in our town which Rachel attends. For about $5-$6 a week she gets three hours split between choir, wind band, orchestra and a theory class. We have also just discovered a local brass band  . The UK has a strong brass band tradition, and as most originated in poor, working class communities where there was certainly no money spare for music lessons the musical knowledge was passed on from generation to generation. This tradition of teaching from within still operates. Our local band has a junior section where band members teach kids for free. They also lend them instruments. My two went this week for the first time. Hannah has come home with a baritone horn on which she is making interesting loud noises . Rachel has her own trumpet so didn't need a loan, and they decided she is almost past the junior band stage. They are going to give her a bit of practice as senior cornet (on a trumpet!) and work on a few bits of technique with her, and will then move her up to the senior band. That will be 3 or 4 hours a week of band practice and tuition, at a cost of 50 pence (under $1) a week. Am I glad she opted for brass!
So far instruments haven't been a problem. I've gathered up quite a few over the years, and we have also been loaned instruments by friends (and now by the brass band). The only instrument we have had to buy was Rachel's trumpet, which we bought cheaply from a music shop that was closing down. In theory I should be capable of teaching violin, flute and piano, at least at the beginner level, but it hasn't worked out in practice. Hannah has had a violin for a while, but I'm afraid we just don't get it out often enough. Somehow when they have outside lessons it makes us much more focused. I've come to the conclusion that music is the one area where we unschool. If I act as a mentor - helping to read a new note, showing a fingering or whatever - we do fine, but if I try to teach formally it ends up in frustration all round.
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Kathryn
Dh Michael, Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06) (11/07)
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: Nov 05 2005 at 9:33am | IP Logged
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MacBeth wrote:
Let's suppose (sorry Cay...taking over the thread ) |
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Oh, I'm glad you did, Macbeth. I love a good conversation. I don't know enough musically to have kept it going this long. I just hate that, having started the thread, I haven't been able to keep up with it or participate in it. Today's a free day...perhaps I'll get a chance to read.
MacBeth wrote:
Let's suppose a child is very good at talking and repeating what she hears. Is she less likely to become a good reader? |
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Well, Chelsea is a non-stop talker and her memory is extremely good. And the tutor I used last year (when she was in 1st grade) had her learning with the 4th graders (I thought it was 3rd graders but the tutor corrected me on that). I wanted to use the tutor again this year because Chels loved going and the 'classroom' was very appealing to her, with Montessori leanings. But I was too late trying to get her in and the tutor was booked  . When I lamanted my tardiness, she assured me that Chels didn't need extra guidance. She said that, despite loving to work with children like Chels, she knows she's needed for the ones who have trouble learning. While it's nice to know that I don't need to worry about Chels academically, it was a nice experience to have another person around for confirmation and reinforcement. We really enjoyed the experience and the partnership.  So now we're on a waiting list. 
Anyhoo...back to the musical thread...
I was told by a former piano teacher that a child should not learn to read music until after they learn to read. It's too confusing for them to learn both at the same time. Do you agree? That's why I waited with Chels. She's been reading quite well for some time now.
I also waited because I want Chels to enjoy the piano and not become frustrated with it. We are taking it very slowly...no pressure. The piano teacher told me that if she bulks at practicing or going to lessons, we'll stop. She said it is not a joy for her to teach a child who isn't enjoying it or having a parent force the child to lessons. We began with 30 minute lessons. Chels is the one who carries them over 1 hour classes.
I know the importance of enjoying it. My piano teacher (way back in 5th/6th grade) insisted that we perform in public. I did not care for that. I only wanted to learn for my pleasure and to play for family. Because she insisted on these recitals, she ruined the whole experience for me. I stopped lessons as soon as I could get my parents to let me. I wish I would have kept at it long enough (or found another teacher) to do a reasonably good job here at home with my family but I've forgotten almost everything I learned...though some of it comes back to me when I sit with Chels.
I'm wondering about how it seems gifted students are often musically gifted as well. Must have something to do with that brain-wiring thing.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 06 2005 at 9:43pm | IP Logged
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Macbeth,
Yes, I do wish we could carry on our conversations in person - and our dc would have some time to experiment with music together.
Yes, piano and organ must be like violin and cello as Jennifer's organ teacher does remind her not to use piano hands (evidently with the mechanical organs, the pipes are actually controlled by strings that open the damper on the pipes and if you use piano hands, the audience can hear the sound of the mechanisms or something like that. There is also a certain echo from the organ that you have to get used to - and there is a great deal of variation between organs (more like strings here as you have to adjust to each individual instrument - true of piano to a certain degree but not in the same sense as the organ. Also there is a difference in how the notes are sustained, etc. Dynamics on the piano rely on the hands as well as the pedaling - in organ it is based on pulling out stops and with the feet. In playing hymns, organists must mentally drop out the bottom line of written music and play it with the feet. Our 13 yo learning cello was always being told not to watch her sister play violin - evidently she was doing her bowing arm like a violinist from having seen dd bowing and her teacher would tell her she had a perfect violin bowing but it was no good for the cello.
I think we are beginning to understand the double major thing (4 hours minimum per instrument is quite a bit if you are doing more than one). If our dd goals were being a church musician/choir director then double majoring makes some sense. If she really wants to try to break into performance, then best to focus on just one instrument and minor in organ. She may attempt to continue with private lessons as she is unwilling to let the violin go totally after working so hard to get where she is (but she is realistic about her chances of breaking into any kind of violin performance - she would like to continue playing chamber and orchestral music after college, but probably won't have tons of time in college to do this.) It's been tough to let go of her instruments (like not trying for All-State Orchestra this year as it is right before her college piano auditions and she really needs to stay focused - she told me yesterday, "I guess I should be glad I didn't take up any more instruments - she is itching for one of her siblings to take up harp (her 8 yo brother is doing piano with that in mind at the moment) so she can kind of get the feel for it; and she wants someone to show her how to do winds - but it will all have to wait until later.
Yes, being a Catholic musician is very difficult indeed in more ways than one. In our area, the Catholic churches do not even pay their choir directors or organist/pianists(one church has a paid full time organist/music director and she does pay our dd for helping accompany the children's choir, there is one parish that pays part time for 1 musician and that's it). We have heard the pastor where our dd volunteers one Sunday per month (1 hour drive from home) say he is not ready to pay for a musician as he believes there is talent in their own parish and he is waiting for them to step forward. When our dd was offered a job with a Protestant church we agonized over what to do - and had to really get clarification on what a Catholic is and is not allowed to do in terms of Protestant worship services - knowing that we'd better get clarification now before she is out as a musician trying to make a living. She is working at this Protestant church now and volunteering at the Catholic parish. Here it is the Protestant churches that are the patrons of the arts - and they are often playing the beautiful Catholic Mass compositions complete with Latin choir - while we suffer through out-of-tune, hope the choir will come in at the right time as many are hit or miss at practice. It's a real suffering for the musician (our dd told me the flute was never in tune with the piano and that when she accompanied one place, she knew the choir would never all come in together so she'd just have to try to go with the majority and hope the rest would eventually figure it out. The organ began breaking and actually went dead mid-song and the organist had to shift quickly to the piano - only as an organist with little/no piano background she had no idea how to do dynamics with the fingers.
I know our dd really loves chamber/orchestral music (and would love to one day perform piano with an orchestra) as well as piano trios and accompanying. Having played strings herself, it does help in accompanying strings and sight reading (which is a strength) is important for accompanyists so she is probably finding her particular focus - . But she still does love violin and organ and I doubt she will ever completely stop playing them. She said she'd like to play in a small orchestra someday, and she might have the opportunity to fill in at college when the chamber groups are short (they have more violas in the college orchestra than violinists - a rather unusual situation as it is usually the violas that are in demand. They may even allow her to take violin classes without playing in the orchestra as an elective.
We're trying to talk to the various faculty to see how all this works out.
Oh, as for improvisation. Jennifer said that having enough understanding of music theory is probably most important here - something about chord progressions and a bunch of other stuff I know nothing about (her piano teacher has given her the equivalent of a first year college theory course - I'm sure Libby has had lots more with all her music at Julliard. I think string majors are generally required to show a certain proficiency on keyboard - there are a number of awesome strings players that have taken piano with the same piano teacher our dd has because they will be able to then test out of the keyboard requirement in college and focus on strings. I think they begin piano about 2-3 years after beginning strings and have played piano longer than our dd - and very good on both. It also gives them a solid theory background. In music camp, our dd noted that the voice, and band instrumentalists had more trouble with theory than the 6 pianists(who found it a bit too easy) - seems to be a consistent pattern at the various camps she has been to (strings were not a part of the camps). The serious string players (here at least) all take piano through high school.
Unfortunately, we won't be able to rely on our oldest to teach as she will be away for college for the next four years . We'll really miss her and her music. I have seen how oldest did have to work to overcome some bad habits so I really want dc to start with a professional teacher - but buying instruments might really save money in the long run. Where do you get decent, inexpensive instruements? We have a few shops here (sort of) but I think most people go elsewhere for their instruments. I just don't know what I'm looking for in a cello or violin. How much should we expect to pay? How do you know which size? Is it really effective to purchase the pint size strings? There are some places that rent and let you use some of that money for an instrument purchase - but then you are limited to their selection. We don't have a lot to choose from here - mostly in the home menagerie's. I'm not sure these folks even know much about what they are selling - one lady had a large room full of out of tune instruments and didn't even know how to tune them herself. Our dd said that some were fiddles - more appropriate for blue/grass and fiddling conventions than for orchestral music. Others have told me to beware of repaired instruments if they have been repaired locally they may just end up being trouble.
I'm really enjoying this conversation - and look forward to how others swing music lessons financially.
I really would like 11 yo ds to take either piano, organ or strings because of how it requires the dc to do different things with both sides of the body at the same time. Because of vision difficulties early on, we end up with some left/right or coordinating both sides of the body issues. These instruments have a way of helping the brain build those pathways. It's a whole lot more interesting than writing dumb circles on the chalkboard with both hands at the same time - and doesn't feel like therapy and also develops some fine motor skills that are also slow in developing in our house. I'm wondering if starting younger with my dc would really help in this regard. I am totally unfamiliar with band instruments - do they also involve some of the cross body movements where different hands are doing different things at the same time and sometimes moving across the center point or moving in opposite directions.
Janet
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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 06 2005 at 10:49pm | IP Logged
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Also, I think the competition thing is another one of those regional things. The Suzuki violin teacher in our area absolutely despises competition of any sort. Her students have one recital per year and after the early years there isn't any group class. There are no Suzuki based competitions or performance opportunities in our area unless self created (ie mom puts on a book performance) and if the teacher is not a member of the music teacher's association - which this Suzuki string teacher is not because of the aversion to competition - then there are virtually no opportunities to compete or perform unless the family creates them themselves.
Our dd Cello teacher is a member of the music teachers association so her students do have access to more. She is new to the area and our dd is the first student she has started with on cello, her other students are coming from a retired Suzuki teacher much like our violin teacher. Her first comment was that there seemed to be a weakness in music theory. She seems to do Suzuki a little differently than others in the area - introducing theory earlier, being a member of the music teacher's association, etc. She just didn't seem to do some of this with our dd because I am just beginning to realize that she thought our dd was taking piano. She is the teacher we plan to use with our 13 yo. I think she assumed a certain amount of theory with our dd because of piano and didn't understand that I was explaining that our dd did not really have much in the way of note reading with piano (a vision problem while taking piano didn't help)- and as she is not a native English speaker, I think she thought our dd was still taking piano(language barrier)and just as we had to stop she had figured out our dd needed more theory and I think was beginning to realize what we'd tried to communicate. Now I know to write things out for her (then if she is having trouble with what we are trying to say her dh can help her interpret it). All these people are wonderful people and our dc learned plenty of things from each - but I can see where staying too long with some of the earlier Suzuki teachers in oure area would be a real problem.
Professional musicians that work in our local area typically recommend Suzuki for 2 years and then tell you to go traditional - this must have something to do with how things are done in our area. I notice that this is typically what the Asians do - they are in Suzuki from about 3 - 6 and then are in traditional lessons around the time dc are reading.
A Korean mom in our area - that is a new Suzuki piano teacher (which doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless you are dealing with a very young child) did explain to me that she thought that Suzuki method as implemented in the U.S. initially was a misunderstanding of Suzuki and Asian culture which is very driven. Suzuki did not have to worry so much about teaching the reading of music as the Asian societies are culturally very driven and music reading is a standard requirement in all schools with very strict regiment. Those that understood Asian culture better, adapted the method better for American culture by introducing note-reading and theory earlier.
I think our region is sometimes stuck with the "old way of misunderstanding the point and misapplication to American culture". I'm not experienced enough to be sure - but it makes more sense to me and I have always thought a lot of what I read in his works and felt he made an immense contribution to music education, especially as we become more and more aware of strings - with the need to hear the right note as it is played. We also see how listening to a variety of professional performers (live and on CD and playing along with CD) has made a huge difference in the musicality of our oldest dd. I also know that our dd does really respond better to a very positive teacher (not one that compliments for everything whether deserved or not, but one who does complement and not just pick.) and this is something Suzuki really emphasized and which her traditional teacher has adopted. She also has told our dd that she(dd teacher) was the star of her own teacher and was entered in all the competitions (only one from her teacher's studio) and that put tremendous pressure on her and also meant that she never got to hear other good performers at her own level - that put her at a disadvantage when it came to college and she was determined that she would not do the same thing to her students. So I don't know if she actually read Suzuki and took from him ideas that were good or whether she just came to the same truth from her own experience - but she always has CDs of pieces and encourages students to listen to recordings, there is a very collaborative atmosphere to her studio and she also has a group class all the way through high school for music theory and also for performance - everyone plays a piece or two at this studio class and they critique each other. The way she runs her studio seems so much like Suzuki recommended - adapted slightly for piano and America with the note reading and theory and the discipline of study.
Anyways, thanks for responding to all my questions. I still feel like a musical illiterate in a new and foreign world - but I will say that ear development does occur even when you are old and gray. I can now detect some wrong notes, etc. and am gradually learning. It is very slow at 45 and I sure wish I'd had the advantage of music at a younger age - one of the reasons I'm determined to try and provide that exposure to our dc before they leave home.
About performance anxiety - our dd cello teacher is a professional performer and still gets very nervous. She told our dd that she prepares by inviting neighbors and asking them to listen to her practice, etc. (I wish we lived next door so we'd be invited to pop in and listen to her practice). This helps her to build up confidence in front of a few kind souls first - dh first, then a few friends, then neighbors, then a small, local performance, then finally a tour.
Found someone else who is a young viola player that also plays piano and she is same as our dd about memorizing. She said it is that you have to remember the physical movement of the fingers and that the same note is played on different strings in different positions or something like that and also all the bowings. So while the notes are less on a page there is still a lot to remember. Piano a d major chord is always played the same or something like that. It must get easier with familiarity with the instrument. Does Libby find both easy to remember or did she find one easier than another?
Our dd has learned concertos on violin but will not compete at all because of the memorization - while she will memorize and compete with very lengthy piano concertos. Perhaps the early Suzuki training without notes does make you develop that feel for the instrument. Just wondering.
Janet
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Tina P.
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Cay Gibson wrote:
Macbeth or anyone,
How do you tell if you child is gifted musically? Any pointers? Any red flags waving? I'm just wondering how to tell if there's real talent. |
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Look, there are people who can read music who have absolutely zero talent. And there are people who haven't had lots of lessons and so can't read it very well (I'm with you, Chelsea! ) who have enormous talent. I get tons of kudos (not fishing for any here, I assure you) about my singing voice. But before I can confidently sing a song or a choral part (descant, soprano, alto, and even tenor or bass (in my own register, of course)), I have to listen to the parts separately and together a few times without and with accompaniment because I can't read music. Once I can blend all the voices and music in my head, I can sing.
Yesterday afternoon, some of the choir members were able to go sing with John Rutter, the choral director of the Cambridge Singers (awesome Christmas music, BTW). Because I didn't even have a tune in my head, I couldn't guess at the different parts. I can't read the music. I do know where the E above the middle E is in my head, for some reason, but that's about it. And oh, we had to sing some parts!  There were several high scale G notes we sopranos had to hit. Whew! I couldn't believe how hungry three hours of singing made me! However, I just mentioned the John Rutter experience because I didn't sing very well not having heard it before. There are people in my choir who have played instruments for years and can read music like they read a book, but they *just* can't hit the right notes when it comes to singing the material. Or in the case of an instrument, maybe folks can read but can't play it with heart and soul.
My grandfather played mandolin, guitar, piano, and accordian by ear. He passed that talent on to my brother, and to a lesser extent, to me. Chelsea doesn't have to make up her own music to be creative. Just playing it in her own way is creativity in itself. Look at all the orchestral renditions of Vivaldi's Four Seasons or Brahms, Bach, or Beethoven sonatas.
Ask Chelsea how it makes her feel to be able to make music. If she loves it, encourage it! Whether children have talent or not, we always encourage interest in music in our house.
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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Tina P.
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MacBeth wrote:
| Again, it has been my experience that Suzuki trained violinists (or cellists and violists) can easily improvise. I wonder, is it training or talent? I, too, wish I could just jump in and improvise!! |
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I don't see why you couldn't. When I was a youngster, we went up north, meaning about 2.5 hour's drive from our home to a place where our nearest neighbor was 0.5 miles away. Though I didn't realize it then, it was practically heaven. We sang in rounds and parts on the way up, we sang 'round the campfire, and we sang on the way home). I made up descants and goofy little bits (repeated words, ooohs, and aaahs, etc.) to every song we sang. My dad would do the bass "boom booms". It was a fun introduction to staying on your own track, blending, and harmonizing. Maybe you should try it with your families.
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JennGM
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Tina P. wrote:
MacBeth wrote:
| Again, it has been my experience that Suzuki trained violinists (or cellists and violists) can easily improvise. I wonder, is it training or talent? I, too, wish I could just jump in and improvise!! |
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I don't see why you couldn't. When I was a youngster, we went up north, meaning about 2.5 hour's drive from our home to a place where our nearest neighbor was 0.5 miles away. Though I didn't realize it then, it was practically heaven. We sang in rounds and parts on the way up, we sang 'round the campfire, and we sang on the way home). I made up descants and goofy little bits (repeated words, ooohs, and aaahs, etc.) to every song we sang. My dad would do the bass "boom booms". It was a fun introduction to staying on your own track, blending, and harmonizing. Maybe you should try it with your families. |
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We did that...rounds, harmony, all on the spot...car and campfires, doing the dishes...We used to imitate the Vienna Boys Choir sound, and other imitations. 7 kids with Mom and Dad singing away...and I still can't do improvisation. But it is good training for other musical areas, too. And besides....what AWESOME memories!!!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 08 2005 at 1:30pm | IP Logged
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The question about whether or not a child is gifted musically - I think there are clues (but nothing that is 100%)like picking out things by ear, being drawn to something, enjoying it, tending to go beyond the just do what I'm told mentality (ie experimentation of some sort). Sometimes it is just a seemingly natural technique on an instrument - but sometimes it comes out as an absolute aversion to practice because the ear is so good they cannot stand the way they sound as they develop technique and skill.
One danger I see is arbitrarily deciding a dc is not gifted simply because they have not had the environment in which to thrive and experiment and grow in that discovery of their own abilities/interests/passions.
For instance, if there are no instruments in the home, there isn't any chance to experiment with them - the electronic keyboard we won opened a whole world for our dd. Our 2nd dd was horrible sounding on the piano (was it the teacher, her vision problems, lack of motivation, or the wrong instrument for her)? She seemed to have a wrong knack for the piano but took to the cello (someone else said something about their child with a wind instrument). She does not seem to have the passion for it - but can dc be early and late bloomers in music just as they are in reading and writing? Do you quit lessons or not provide them because the dc doesn't seem to have a passion at the moment. We have been to plenty of chamber concerts where the musicians spoke of their early music training (one Cellist spoke of all the ways he managed to piddle away so he wasn't practicing, another that talked of begging to quit violin for years) and they obviously love it now, are making a full profession out of it and are thankful to those odd-ball circumstances (a stubborn mom, an accidental music camp that required 5 hours of practice/day done because a friend dared him to try, a girl he wanted to meet in orchestra that kept him on the violin one more year)that kept them at it long enough to discover their love and talent.
I really do believe that every dc should have an opportunity for music - whether they are truely talented or not (and I think it is hard to tell until they have been at something for a really long time). It is like any other learning - some competency should be required. Of course, this is the ideal. The reality is that we have to do the best we can in our given location/circumstances. We only have access to private lessons (nothing like what Kathyrn from the UK describes here) and these are pricey.
We know a mom that required her ds to take piano before graduating from high school. He began lessons well into high school - was amazing what he managed to accomplish in 1 year. Was he talented - I think so. Does that mean he is called to be a professional musician - don't think so - but his music will serve in some way whether he becomes an engineer or a priest or whatever. Talent is to be used and developed but this certainly can be done in a variety of ways. I'm sure the mom wishes she had started him sooner (I sometimes think the same with my oldest dc) but God is in charge and his providence allows things and I count on Him to write straight with our crooked lines. Or at least I wish I would remember that all the time instead of just in moments of reflection on this board .
We want very much to begin our youngest with some sort of music and have the whole family involved. We are investigating, seeing what we can find in the way of little instruments just to have them around for dc and then we will have to make the most prudent choices of when and how we begin formal lessons. If we can do the lessons without neglecting the realistic responsibilities to provide for our dc basic needs, then we'll be in lessons. Otherwise, we'll just have to trust to God's good timing, keep playing our CDs, going to free concerts, having instruments around, etc.
Janet
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Tina P.
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ALmom wrote:
| The question about whether or not a child is gifted musically - I think there are clues (but nothing that is 100%)like picking out things by ear, being drawn to something, enjoying it, tending to go beyond the just do what I'm told mentality (ie experimentation of some sort). Sometimes it is just a seemingly natural technique on an instrument - but sometimes it comes out as an absolute aversion to practice because the ear is so good they cannot stand the way they sound as they develop technique and skill. |
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OK. I'll use the last line as an excuse to pardon me from the mistake I made of quitting piano when I was 10. That sounds good enough for me.
Quote:
One danger I see is arbitrarily deciding a dc is not gifted simply because they have not had the environment in which to thrive and experiment and grow in that discovery of their own abilities/interests/passions.
For instance, if there are no instruments in the home, there isn't any chance to experiment with them - the electronic keyboard we won opened a whole world for our dd. Our 2nd dd was horrible sounding on the piano (was it the teacher, her vision problems, lack of motivation, or the wrong instrument for her)? She seemed to have a wrong knack for the piano but took to the cello (someone else said something about their child with a wind instrument). She does not seem to have the passion for it - but can dc be early and late bloomers in music just as they are in reading and writing? Do you quit lessons or not provide them because the dc doesn't seem to have a passion at the moment. |
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That is a question I continually ask myself. I was let out of lessons probably because being sixth in my family, my mom just didn't want to argue with one more child about lessons. I felt at the time that I was taking lessons for about a year and not getting anywhere. I remember playing Swanee River so well that I improvised it to make it more snappy.  Some six years after I'd quit piano, I took up music again, but only for a short time, as a lady down the block taught me until she moved (I could have counted on one hand the amount of lessons that time, however). She moved and since I only walked wherever I went, I couldn't have lessons with her. Now, we've got our daughter in piano and just plucked our son out of guitar for the second time (first time he was disinterested, this time we're moving in four months and we're finishing things up ~ I contend he was taken out of lessons too early, but my husband thinks that Alex was bored again anyway).
I look forward to going home and having Suzuki method and scores of teachers with different styles available so that we can choose how we want to learn.
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| Was he talented - I think so. Does that mean he is called to be a professional musician - don't think so - but his music will serve in some way whether he becomes an engineer or a priest or whatever. |
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Sacrifice is what it takes if you want to be a professional writer, speaker, musician, chef ... anything! If a person is called to be a musician, he'll know it (so will everyone around him ). But if not, groundwork in every area will only serve to make a person well-rounded for future decisions.
jenngm67 wrote:
| We did that...rounds, harmony, all on the spot...car and campfires, doing the dishes...We used to imitate the Vienna Boys Choir sound, and other imitations. 7 kids with Mom and Dad singing away...and I still can't do improvisation. |
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Gee, and we all tried to imitate the Von Trapp Family Singers. At one point, I thought we *were* the Italian/German equivalent of the Von Trapps.
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
Mary's Muse
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4Real Forums : The Arts in the Everyday
Topic: Musical Talent vs. Playing by Ear
