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Cay Gibson
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Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Sept 12 2008 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
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teachingmyown wrote:
Part of the problem with TT is that we already have a logger jam at the computer. Our schedule will have to be much stricter to make sure everyone gets his or her work done.
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Hey, look! I still have power and Internet. Oh, goody! 
Molly,
I've been wanting to get back to this.
Garrett and Chelsea take turns during the day doing their TT lessons.
I get on the computer with coffee in the early morning. Garrett does 2 lessons in the morning. Chelsea usually does her math last in the afternoon. I check mail as I can throughout the day because I haven't been able to stay up until 1 AM like I use to. Age? 
And Corey works until 4 PM, goes to class 5:30-7:30 PM then comes home and gets on the computer to take one of his 2 web classes.
Now the children do have a computer in the kitchen area but they do their TT on my computer so I can keep track of their work and scores. I also allow Corey to do his web classes on mine because the children's computer is so old and on the brink.
Kayleigh's graduation gift was a laptop so she's set but there still seems to always be someone wanting to use my computer. 
I've mentioned to Corey twice to buy himself a computer but he think a boat motor is more valuable and important.
I also wanted to make sure you saw the follow-ups on this thread: TT & test scores
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Victoria in AZ
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Joined: Feb 16 2005
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| Posted: Sept 13 2008 at 7:12am | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
My kids must be SO FAR behind in Math.
oh, dear....
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This is what I thought about my dd (5th grade). We haven't even touched on division yet and she can't seem to memorize her multiplication after YEARS of drill, flash cards and computer games. After all my lamenting how far behind she is, guess what? When I looked at TT5, she isn't even behind at all!!!!! Man, the things I worry about sometimes; it's practically shameful. I did the happy dance when I found out she is exactly where she needs to be. Don't even get me started on the question of "Who defines what behind means?"
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Your sister in Christ,
Victoria in AZ
dh Mike 24 yrs; ds Kyle 18; dd Katie 12; and one funny pug
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LisaD
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| Posted: Nov 25 2008 at 2:48pm | IP Logged
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Victoria in AZ wrote:
cactus mouse wrote:
My kids must be SO FAR behind in Math.
oh, dear....
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This is what I thought about my dd (5th grade). We haven't even touched on division yet and she can't seem to memorize her multiplication after YEARS of drill, flash cards and computer games. After all my lamenting how far behind she is, guess what? When I looked at TT5, she isn't even behind at all!!!!! Man, the things I worry about sometimes; it's practically shameful. I did the happy dance when I found out she is exactly where she needs to be. Don't even get me started on the question of "Who defines what behind means?" |
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I am bumping up this thread, because I just don't know where to go from here, if anywhere, in regards to Math.
DD is 9, and in 4th grade. She is very strong in language and reading, but she is struggling with math. She had no trouble with the placement test for TT5, so we went ahead a bought it. She did fine for the first twenty-something lessons, then really started to struggle. One thing that is bogging her down is she has never memorized her math facts--not just multiplication, but addition and subtraction as well. So, I was looking at the approved math programs for a local home study charter school, and checked out Aleks Math. I had dd do the assessment test, and she scored as knowing 31% of our state's standards for 3rd grade. We decided to use the Aleks program for 6 months at the third grade level and try to get her caught up, then she could continue with TT5 for fifth grade. The Aleks program is not cheap. DD now hates it. Part of the problem is, she wants to work from a book (she thinks), and have me sit next to her and explain everything to her. I love TT and Aleks for the fact that I do NOT have to sit next to her and explain everything. I am not a math person. I really want my kids to learn math, and like math, and I know that won't happen if I am sitting with them getting frustrated. I just don't know what to do now. It is very important to DH that the kids have a good math program and work to the best of their abilities in it (dh is an engineer--math and science are very important to him). I just can't spend more money on math programs that she hates and fights me on. Maybe I should just get some Spectrum or Kumon math workbooks and let her have at it.
On the other hand, DS is 7 and in second grade, and he is using Abeka Arithmetic 2. He hates it because of the repetition (though I think it is less repetitive than other programs). He dislikes manipulatives with a passion. He wants to do TT, but they haven't come out with grade 3, or even grade 4 yet. I will have him finish the Abeka this year, and hope and pray that by next fall, TT will have come out with TT3.
Just looking for some words of wisdom...
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~Lisa
Mama to dd(99), ds(01), ds(03) and ds(06)
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mariB
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| Posted: Nov 26 2008 at 6:05am | IP Logged
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I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I, too, have a 9 year old daughter in 4th grade who struggles with math...does not know many of her math facts, and started to say, "I'm not good at math." (this was last year.) One thing I knew at that point is that I did NOT want her to develop math phobia. So, I decided to make math FUN for her this year...
I just typed a really long post to you about what we have been doing and then we had some sort of power surge and the power went out in one section of our house. Needless to say, I lost the post!
One thing I do want to say is that I don't think our 4th grader would be able to handle TT5 yet. Maybe if you wait a year and do lots of hands on stuff and try TT5 next year?
I was looking at the gnome math and it looks fun. I really want our daughter to understand and know the math facts before we move on! So really enjoying math is our goal this year. Along with this, we do clocks, fractions, measurement (both metric and standard). And we take a couple of math facts a week and memorize them together. she quizzes me and I quiz her. We may be cooking and then I'll ask her, "What is 7X7 ?" I always make sure I ask math facts that she already knows to reinforce a positive experience. I want her to end up enjoying math!
(Our 16 year old does TT and told me he finds math relaxing!!!) I'd like her to say THAT when she's sixteen! Thank you TT 
I do plan on getting TT5 for fifth grade though. We have had great success with TT for our 3 boys. And like Cay...I'm sold...getting rid of ALL the other math books that clutter our house! BUT keeping all manipulatives!
Reading through these posts has made me feel hopeful. It helps to hear other mothers' words of wisdom. Going to read through "Those Gnomes" that Cay linked.
And Sending hugs, Lisa,  Let us know how your daughter does...and I will likewise...
Blessings and Happy Thanksgiving,
marianne
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marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
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ALmom
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| Posted: Nov 26 2008 at 11:01pm | IP Logged
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One thing I have discovered is that some of my visual learners must see in their head something before it can be retained. So for math facts, we have done addition and mulitiplication on an abacus, followed by some drilling but using things like - how many days are in 6 weeks - they can form the picture of a calendar in their head). Let's see, 2s - How many socks do you need for x number of people. 3s - how many leaves on a 3-leaf clover, 4's socks and gloves for x number of people, etc. We managed to come up with something for every number. I question randomly at odd times - maybe we see something interesting and it triggers a question and sometimes it is just when I am sitting and working with the child. At least now he has a picture in his head. It is slower going than with some of my others. Also for his math flash cards - we make them ourselves in flashy colors  . I am not at all stressed if we spend an entire year on math facts - as long as they really understand the concept of number and what it means - ie not just memorizing but thinking mathematically and really get the connection of number.
Also we found some great living books from Friends of the Library. We just read Zero is Not Nothing by Mindel and Harry Sitomer. It is part of a series of Young Math books, copyright 1978. There seem to be about 42 books in this series and imho these would provide ample introduction to all the concepts needed in elementary math and into middle school. They even have one that introduces Algebra. I managed to purchase 5 of the books (all the ones I saw at the Friends of the Library book sale) and if I ever find any more, I'm scarfing them up. They connect the concepts to real life things.
Since I have a group of competitive boys, I also had them make flash cards (but we cut them out like baseballs and followed CHC suggestion for fact baseball - only they are out if they cannot answer in a certain amount of time, we start by allowing for a little more time but move to the point where they are out if they don't answer within a second or two). Oh and we've also used dot charts for addition and subtraction - hand made from instructions in Addison Wesley's Mathematics Your Way.
I'm not saying we have this down perfectly or that my children don't get neglected in math from time to time, just like everyone else, my time is limited. I have a child who is balancing chemical equations in science and had to slow down quite a bit in math to solidify math facts. He should be much further along than he is but he tried to race and rules seemed mundane to him, until it was connected to science. Some of mine are more math inclined than others and though I was a math major, my husband, the engineer, thinks far more mathematically than I do. With lots of children at widely different points, I don't always have time to introduce things really well - but can usually decipher where the lag is when they hit a wall. Some of the common problems we find:
math facts being weak. It just gets too hard and slow to do advanced problems if you are still having to bog down and count out addition or multiplication facts. We stop and make sure the concept and doing it is in place. It helps when they see how it slows them down and how much faster everything will go once it is second nature. But rather than emphasis plain memorization, we emphasize realizing what it means and playing around with real things until it is second nature. We may also revisit some things like place value. As I quiz at random from time to time, I'll notice when someone sits there and is obviously counting out just by the length of time it takes for them to have a response, I'll say things like, "Oh so you forgot such and such a fact. How did you decide to find the answer. When they tell me one way, then that is something - they at least thought of how to do it. I might challenge them to find a quicker way. Maybe they remember a math fact that is closer and add from that or subtract from one above or... We've also taken many copies of a hundreds chart and had the child color in a different color on a different sheet each set (2's, 3's ...) and see if they see patterns. We try to show the relationships between adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing as we work through the facts. I'll ask my children if they know the math facts where they can respond as fast as I can snap my fingers, but depending on the temperment of the child I emphasis either the game aspect, or challenge - always trying to remember to encourage whatever they did do.
Most folks I tutored in college were not dumb in math, they simple had been convinced that they couldn't do it. This usually meant someone, somewhere pushed them to go faster than they were ready to go and they now hated and dreaded the thing and just hoped they could survive. But every one of them gained a great deal of confidence by being led to discover their own solutions even if you had to ask really leading questions at first. Success does a lot to build confidence and interest.
Place value is another area, we have sometimes gone back to review. We read Zero is Not Nothing so they have an idea of all the differing ways we use zero. I have a homemade game for place value where you make up nonsense names - deciding yourself which typical number gets a new name. (We don't go into other base systems mathematically, really, but it helps them understand our base system without getting tangled up in what they already know to be rules). Until you have a really deep sense of place value, you cannot do long division and multiplication with carrying. Then you can explain these by making sure they understand the place value implied in all those steps. None of us find it easy to memorize a bunch of nonsense rules, if we understand the sense of what they are about, we can usually reason out the steps until they are totally solid in our head.
Honestly, in the end the basics being solid is way more important than how far they are in any program. My current highschooler could not divide in 5th or 6th grade (granted she had some vision problems that delayed math - seeing 21 as 12 didn't help matters at all) but she is working fine at the high school level now and is not behind. She is not inclined towards math and doesn't particularly like it, but she is competent in the subject. She likes it more, the more competent she becomes.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Living and Loving Numbers
Topic: 5th grade math for struggling learner
