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folklaur
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montessori_lori wrote:
I get the impression - from purists, I suppose - that I should be using a particular "pourer", etc.
But, this isn't a bad thing at all. Let's say that a 2-year old wants to pour. You tell them to grab any old thing, and they get a huge pitcher that's way too big for them and end up spilling the water. They find that frustrating and never want to pour again - this would be my daughter, right here :) |
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Okay - but why do the "pourers" have to be so expensive? 
Also - I think there is a bit of an extreme between "this special pourer" and "any old thing".
My Mother always did things like this - pouring, scooping, etc. My brother had a brian tumor and some activities were part of his therapy - and I just grew up doing things like this all the time. I guess I just thought that there are the kinds of activities Moms did with their kids when they stayed home with them...But, my parents used what they had, and we learned all those things w/o needed a "special pouring tool".
I hope I am making sense. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain, I do appreciate it!
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lapazfarm
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cactus mouse wrote:
missionfamily wrote:
| if the environment is key to montessori education than proper treatment of that environment must be taught to the child. |
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So....that makes me wonder then...I can see how that would work in a Montessori Classroom - where the whole environment is geared in a certain way, with certain purposes....
How does that play out in the home, especially if you have many varying ages from tots to teens and no "classroom" space? Are the trays themselves the "environment"?
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Oh, well here you have hit n one of the toughest aspects of Montessori homeschooling! And ANY type of homeschooling, really. Where do we draw the line between school and home? And should we? Should the lessons learned at schooltime be applied to the rest of our lives, or is there a time when we can just forget all that and just "BE"? And if they are lessons worth learning, then shouldn't we be applying them whenever we can? It's that never-ending search for balance, isn't it?
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missionfamily
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Laura said:
Okay - but why do the "pourers" have to be so expensive?
Also - I think there is a bit of an extreme between "this special pourer" and "any old thing".
(I always erase the code when I edit what I want to quote  )
So I guess the point would be to be intentional either way. Buying "any old" pitcher from a montessori supply company will assure its quality and beauty, but it may be expensive and it still could not be the best one for your particular child for a variety of reasons. You need to be aware of what you're buying and why so you invest in the right things at the right time.
If you're picking up the same item at the really big store that sells everything and there are plastic scoop with handles that will break easily and that are too large to actually be handled easily and smaller, nicer wooden scoops that will last longer and make the work easier, the dollar more is well-spent.
Either way it seems the answer is being intentional about what you present the child so that you give him the best chance to succeed at and enjoy the activity you're presenting him.
Suddenly, I sound wuite the montessori expert, don't I ...just processing out loud to see if I'm finally getting this, not claiming I know what I'm talking about.
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lapazfarm
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Yes, the stuff sold in Mont catalogs is ridiculously expensive. Which is why there are so many "Montessori make it yourself" groups out there.
But I am also very aware of how my children's eyes light up when they see beautiful polished wooden bowls filled with real polished stones to scoop with an ornate sterling silver spoon (yard sales!), rather than a plastic bucket of plastic beads and a plastic spoon.
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folklaur
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lapazfarm wrote:
Yes, the stuff sold in Mont catalogs is ridiculously expensive. Which is why there are so many "Montessori make it yourself" groups out there.
But I am also very aware of how my children's eyes light up when they see beautiful polished wooden bowls filled with real polished stones to scoop with an ornate sterling silver spoon (yard sales!), rather than a plastic bucket of plastic beads and a plastic spoon. |
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Aaaahhhh! Okay! I get what you mean here.
"Intentional" is the key?
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folklaur
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missionfamily wrote:
| the really big store that sells everything |
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missionfamily wrote:
So I guess the point would be to be intentional either way.
<snip>
Either way it seems the answer is being intentional about what you present the child so that you give him the best chance to succeed at and enjoy the activity you're presenting him.
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This is very good, I am glad you are "thinking out loud" - it is helping quite a bit in my understanding!
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montessori_lori
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There's nothing, anywhere, that says that Montessori Practical Life materials have to be expensive. Actually, some of the most popular Montessori books of all time (like Elizabeth Hainstock's "Teaching Montessori in the Home") advocate using things around the house, from garage sales, etc. like many of us do.
Montessori catalogs can be pricey, but I hope that no one feels they *must* order from those kinds of catalogs for work to be "Montessori".
An old silver ladle from a garage sale, a small ceramic bowl from Target's $1 area, filled with child-safe silver polish, and a square of flannel from Hobby Lobby would make a lovely polishing work.
The key is to be purposeful in choosing the materials and how you put them together.
The need for very specific materials in other areas of Montessori (math, language) has made Montessori cost prohibitive for many years. That's one of the reasons I haven't raised my prices in almost 4 years, and offer free things to parents and teachers. (My site is Montessori for Everyone, since I see some new faces here).
Now it's much easier to find reasonably priced Montessori materials of all kinds, on eBay and around the web.
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folklaur
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montessori_lori wrote:
| for work to be "Montessori". |
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Hhhmmmm....
Maybe what I have not liked, in actuality, is the "label." I have no desire any more to try to fit my homeschooling into a "label."
As I said, it seems my Mother did Monterrsori-esque activities, and it wasn't "Montessori."
I think, maybe, once things start getting labels - such as Montessori, or Classical, or Unschooler, or whatnot - they also end up with unnecessary limits - and a possible narrow-mindedness way of thinking...
I haven't thought this all the way through yet.
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missionfamily
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Okay ladies---I'm out for the evening....special mass at church tonight initiating the Angelic Warfare Confraternity that my 10yo dh started all by himself! Anyway--have lots of thought provoking conversation while i'm gone because I'll be back with my morning coffee. 
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Willa
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missionfamily wrote:
| Either way it seems the answer is being intentional about what you present the child so that you give him the best chance to succeed at and enjoy the activity you're presenting him. |
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That is great! It says a lot.
NOW -- I am going to try to bring out the other side of it, which is where I think I feel some uneasiness about a "prepared environment" and "directed work".
As homeschoolers, we have all seen the way our children have developed strengths not from any formal preparedness of the environment, but from "life learning." My child uses a scoop too big for him -- and oops, learning occurs. In many ways, creativity comes from playing with possibilities and learning from direct-first-hand experience what the results of those things are.
Charlotte Mason talked about how children were born persons just like anyone else and how an environment which was too planned, directed and problem-proofed could stultify a child.... basically, take away from the resourcefulness which comes of applying one's own ingenuity to real life.
I think Lori said that Montessori wasn't meant to fill every hour of every day; that children would have plenty of time to explore creatively and learn from the world outside of the other times.
So perhaps that is the answer -- but I should be interested in knowing. On one hand, I could see that the time and space given along with the tools could impart a serenity and preparedness which would translate outwards into success in life outside the prepared environment.
On the other hand, I could also see that if a directed planned environment is recommended -- without the context of the rest of the hours of freedom and exploration -- that an inexperienced parent or teacher could get into the mindset that everything has to be "suggested, directed, expected" (Charlotte Mason's words) and that the child might end up getting the same impression -- that there was only one "right" way to do things.
There would be a kind of serenity in that, which might LOOK like normalization, but would to me seem like a pseudo-normalization.... a kind of complacency. And the parent/teacher might get into the habit of resting too much in the "way things are done" and the outcome, and not looking at the child.
I hope that makes sense! It is something that has bothered me, that I would love to see in a clearer light.
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montessori_lori
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There are several things to keep in mind; one is that Montessori at home looks very different from a Montessori school. This is something I had to accept early on, and I would say that even though I'm a Montessori trained teacher, our homeschooling looks a lot like unschooling meets Montessori. We are very informal about how/when we do actual Montessori activities. But the kids are learning all the time.
Also, in Montessori there is usually one initial presentation of the materials, but once the child has demonstrated that they can use the materials the way they were shown (we call this "mastery"), they can begin to experiment with variations on the material.
It's just that we think order to do the variations, there should be some sort of baseline first. This is common in all aspects of life, and not just in Montessori. One illustration would be going to art class and learning a specific painting technique, and then once you've mastered that technique, you'd be free to experiment with it and really make it "yours". But you wouldn't have much success if you did the experimenting first, before the technique was learned.
Think about any skill, really - writing an essay, driving a car, cooking a meal - you need to master the fundamentals before you can improvise.
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Mackfam
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Willa wrote:
On one hand, I could see that the time and space given along with the tools could impart a serenity and preparedness which would translate outwards into success in life outside the prepared environment.
On the other hand, I could also see that if a directed planned environment is recommended -- without the context of the rest of the hours of freedom and exploration -- that an inexperienced parent or teacher could get into the mindset that everything has to be "suggested, directed, expected" (Charlotte Mason's words) and that the child might end up getting the same impression -- that there was only one "right" way to do things.
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I think this is where that balance must be applied, and where the homeschooler has the advantage, imo. Though it is challenging to organize and make practical the working of Montessori in the home, it allows for a freedom and blending which I love. In our home, there are lesson blocks, there is Montessori "choice time" and then there is a lot of what Charlotte Mason would call "masterly inactivity". There are nature walks *and* golden beads.
I do understand where you're coming from, Willa. There is a tendency, a default in our culture to make everything an activity, everything a prepared tray for the child with the end result always being predictable and always staying "within the lines" so to speak.
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lapazfarm
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I think of it sort of like using Bob books. You know, those cute little graded readers that introduce a new phonics concept or so each book? They have a very controlled vocabulary that make it easy to isolate specific reading skills you might be working on.
Just because I use Bob books to address those specific goals I have for my dd in reading, doesn't mean she cannot also turn around and pick up Beatrix Potter and discover that P-e-t-e-r spells Peter all on her own.
And although some radical unschoolers may say that the Bob books are not necessary and my child will pick up reading all on her own from real life context and real books, I tend to feel there is nothing wrong with using specific tools for isolated learning of reading skills.
Now, apply that same concept across the curriculum.
Sure, your little one may learn something from everything he does, but that does not negate the benefit of using tools that are designed to specifically address the skills that you have goals for your dc to learn?
Would I want a controlled environment all the time? Heck, no! And Bob books all the time would be boring as all get out!But I also think there is a time and place for them.
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Connections
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Is it possible that the success of Montessori depends on the personality of the child? Are some children more suited to Montessori or is it for everyone?
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lapazfarm
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Connections wrote:
Is it possible that the success of Montessori depends on the personality of the child? Are some children more suited to Montessori or is it for everyone?
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I don't think there is an educational system anywhere in the world that is suited to everyone.Just like any other system, some will thrive on it more than others.
Thank goodness as homeschoolers we have the freedom to choose them methods to match our children and ourselves!LOL!
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CatholicMommy
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In talking with an AMI elementary trainer today about the presentations, the materials, and their changes over time, we came to this conclusion of our conversation, in terms that have been expressed so many times, but I thought I would share again (sorry for the repetition!)...:
Montessori is not really supposed to be about the materials in and of themselves, or the presentations in and of themselves. In the end, these are just keys for specific learning utilizing the child's strengths at his particular age. This applies to practical life skills as well as more "educational" areas such as reading and math.
In the end, Montessori is about respecting the child and his needs at that particular moment (knowing as the adult where this child is going to go in the future, thus we offer proper choices!), furnishing materials and experiences that are going to suit those needs and future endeavors.
And yes, the homeschooling Montessori looks way different from the classroom - and incorporates the philosophy in a different appearance, but the respect for the child that God gave us doesn't change - we still want his needs to be fulfilled, such that he can control his own impulses over time and grow to be a confident individual who will serve his God-given vocation to its fullest.
I find it difficult to contribute to these conversations, because "Montessori" has become so saturated into my way of thinking, it is difficult now to see it from the outside, and to explain components succinctly.
It's been a long week... I hope that all made sense!
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folklaur
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lapazfarm wrote:
Connections wrote:
Is it possible that the success of Montessori depends on the personality of the child? Are some children more suited to Montessori or is it for everyone?
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I don't think there is an educational system anywhere in the world that is suited to everyone.Just like any other system, some will thrive on it more than others.
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This is my feeling also, which was why I took exception to:
montessori_lori wrote:
And, as my Montessori director used to say, "Montessori is for every child, but not every parent." |
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Milehimama
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Two things: When I said my daughter wasn't doing it "right", I did not mean she wasn't doing it to my exact specifications.
What I meant was, she was completely ignoring the control of error and not behaving in a purposeful fashion. I used the example of her pouring the rice on the floor - she was not doing that to explore the rice, or see how it acted when it hit the floor, or play with it. She was doing it precisely because she knows that rice doesn't belong on the floor.
Also, when speaking of the prepared environment, please remember that *most* homes (especially in Montessori's time) were not hospitable to children at all. I think many of our homes are so child friendly by default... we already had stools and little tables and small toothbrushes, etc... long before we heard of Montessori.
In my mind, "prepared environment" does not mean controlled environment, but rather an environment that welcomes learning and the natural blossoming of a child's interest.
Which many of us already have.
And pourers - I have a collection of glass coffee creamers picked up cheap from thrift stores! The glassware section is a bountiful source of objects, including silver and brass candlesticks for polishing, trays, pourers, and scoops.
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folklaur
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Milehimama wrote:
| Two things: When I said my daughter wasn't doing it "right", I did not mean she wasn't doing it to my exact specifications. |
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If this is in response to what I said, please, please know I did not mean to offend in any way. I was not even thinking of you directly, just that it is something I have heard many times, from many different people, on this board and elsewhere, in the context of working with Montessori. I am so sorry if I offended you in any way.
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montessori_lori
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And, as my Montessori director used to say, "Montessori is for every child, but not every parent."
I don't totally agree with her; I should have stated that - see my post about it here:
Is Montessori for Everyone?
I think many, many kids would do great in Montessori who are not currently in a Montessori program. But some might not. That's okay; that's why we can make choices, as Theresa says.
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Topic: What is Normalization?
