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SuzanneG
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joann10 wrote:
| Big, grown-up kids just generally whip everyone else into a frenzy-and then leave to go about their own business. |
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Suzanne in ID
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Milehimama
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A silent house is a lonely house.
Home is where the noise is - where brothers and sisters talk and laugh and fight together.
I really wouldn't have it any other way!
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CrunchyMom
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W just got some Greathall Jim Weiss recordings at the Family Centered Conference, and this thread reminds me of his telling of an old Jewish folktale, "Things Could Always Be Worse."
The parents get fed up with all the noise in their house and go visit the rabbi and his wife for advice. First, they tell them to bring the cow into the house, then the dog, goat, etc... Finally, they go and say, its awful, we can't stand it, this isn't helping, and they tell them to send all the animals back outside. By comparison, the "noise" of their children is peaceful.
Anyway, it is very funny the way he tells it.
Do you have a cow you could bring in the house?
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Lisbet
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The magic bullet - ACCEPTANCE. Seriously, Peaceful acceptance. Now I'm not saying that we should not look for ways to streamline and minimize the things/situations that cause an uproar, or that we should accept rude/disrespectful behaviour from our children, but I have come to learn that things like getting ready for the pool, no matter how prepared I am and how organized things are, is a whirlwind. I have to accept that. And like you Amy, I come from a family of 2 nicely spaced children, where the house was immaculate and noise was not tolerated. I think it can be harder for us to reach a level of acceptance.
Tequila helps.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
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Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
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Sam, 9
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Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
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nissag
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Awwww. We've all had a day like that - I think it visits us each in turn. Three year olds are lots of fun (read:: can we skip and go right to four?). Each family has to work out a strategy to mitigate (not eliminate) these situations. Communication between mom and dad is super important. Some kids need a gradual transition in activities, especially one as enticing as a trip to the pool (ask me how I know). If Brian and I plan ahead (even 30 seconds talking it over first), I can mentally prepare for the ruckus that will surely ensue.
Scheduling has helped as well - just a framework that allows us some flexibility (like for afternoons when the pool is a great idea). And, I'm not a tequila drinker, but a glass of White Zin is just the ticket for me.
Lisa is absolutely correct - we just have to accept that we WILL have days when we beg Calgon to take us away.
Blessings,
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Nissa
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nissag
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Milehimama wrote:
A silent house is a lonely house.
Home is where the noise is - where brothers and sisters talk and laugh and fight together.
I really wouldn't have it any other way!
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How bout:: "Cleanliness is next to impossible".
Blessings,
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Nissa
Deacon's wife, mother of eleven, farmer, teacher, creator, cook.
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amyable
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nissag wrote:
| Awwww. We've all had a day like that - I think it visits us each in turn. |
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I know this thread has probably mostly played itself out by now, but I'm kicking myself for not making my point more clear.  I know we all have days like this - even growing up in a small family, super pristine house we had "days" like this.
But I'm wondering if having a large family means I should be having MONTHS and YEARS like this. Every day. Or am I doing something very wrong. So much of it seems to be the personalities I'm dealing with (including my own and dh's) - how much do I force change? How much do I punish? (( THIS is where I wish I was Caroline Ingalls. There was a certain way children should act and she "knew" she was in the right to enforce that and her kids saw that being enforced in other families. ))
I've got to run. Sorry if I wasn't clear, and thank you everyone for all your stories, suggestions, and thoughts!! 
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JodieLyn
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OK, you and your dh will want to agree on what's ok or not. *I* just let go as long as everyone is more or less talking in normal speaking volume and tones. But I also know people who work on using lower volume and getting the kids to do so as well. It can be as simple and lowering your own voice so that they have to be quieter to hear you (personally I think I'd just be ignored  )
But even though I grew up with only one sister.. we often had other family that would be staying with us for one reason or another and our family was (and is) loud.. people get excited and the volume goes up. It doesn't bother me.. and I can be as loud as any. I do know other people who grew up where loud=angry and they just can't handle loud homes.
So what you should do about it, will depend on what you're comfortable with. And some reasonableness in dealing with the sheer numbers.
And don't be afraid to send them all to their bedrooms to play or outside when the noise is getting to you. In the summer I find it's very easy to "get a break" by giving out popcicles which have to be eaten in the backyard
And as far as the constant mishaps or someone being unhappy about something etc.. yep that's pretty much a constant. Though there are certain children that they happen to more often than others.. I put on two bandaids yesterday (and we only use them for actual bleeding wounds), I often hand out arnica several times a day, have a line for getting diapers changed, have older kids arguing, or the toddler screaming because she's not getting her way.. right now the baby gets woken up more than I'd like because everyone wants a chance to love on him and so setting him down means that often someone else picks him up.. or the toddler crawls up to him to give kisses (and since she's a toddler that often means ON him).
So yep it's months and years of those constant things.. but usually it's not all on top of one another and you're left trying to deal with too many things coming at you at once. It does help to be able to prioritize and block out some of the sounds.. and the older kids can be trained to help.. so that for instance I can have one of the older 4 kids grab the toddler and wash her and one or more working on cleaning the mess she just made (spilled oatmeal, toothpaste squirted everywhere, cup of something dumped etc) leaving me still able to pick up the screaming baby to nurse. So that I'm not feeling pulled as many different directions and it doesn't because "one of those days".
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nissag
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I've gotcha now. Sometimes months like that can happen - we've had long stretches during some other kind of upheaval - a move, a long illness.
It sounds like this might be a good opportunity for a planning session with your husband, if he's willing and able. Working out signals, "rules" of engagement for transitions would probably be helpful, especially if you've got folks in your family who need a little prep-time for transition. I have one child who DOES NOT transition well at all on the fly. He goes bananas.
Keeping my kids on a predictable routine helps a lot, too. Having those silent periods (again predictable), really helps. Girls seem to love organization - at least mine do. What about making a choreboard, schedule chart, good deeds/behaviour chart? Anything visual could really help you keep the children on track - it's tanglible to them. Having them help you set it up allows them to take ownership.
Doing a simple family mission statement (nothing elaborate) will help, especially if they participate. Try an exercise we did with our kids when they were much younger - we put everyone's name on a sheet of paper and asked each in turn what we liked best about each other. It helped get everyone on the positive side.
Any changes you make, make them S-L-O-W-L-Y. One little change at a time. It's easier on you, and prevents that balkiness from the kids and hubby. They say it takes 2 weeks to form a habit. I wouldn't add a new change any faster than that.
For discipline, we definitely still use time out. We also have a kind of "merit jar" where we place coloured marbles for merits, take them away for demerits. You could do something similar to that. Make one for the whole family (fosters teamwork), or individual ones. We give an ice-cream party for a full jar (qt. sized). When one child does something to hurt another child (physically or emotionally), they are spoken to and asked to think of a way to serve that person (helping with a chore, etc.). If they are little and are hitting we use the phrase "hands are for helping, not hitting", they are taught to make the boo-boo better and give a hug.
Keeping a little journal of your kids' hot buttons, as well as your own and your husband's will also help a lot. Watch their eating patterns, and how they behave after certain foods/meals. Low blood sugar is a disaster with my boys especially. And high-protein breakfasts make for really manageable kids in my house. High carb breakfasts are a recipe for disaster, especially on outing days.
I noticed that one of my kids WOULD not take a nap because he couldn't settle himself. This also was true when he got frustrated with anything. I simply had to give him the strategy (he was 3). "When you get upset, I want you to take your bear, your afternoon blanket, and a book. Sit in Bumpy's rocking chair (which was in his room), and read to your bear." For him it worked. He's 14 now. When he gets really frustrated, he still grabs a book and finds a cozy spot. He's better in a short time.
There's no magic solution, no super-quick fix either. But little improvements always seem very big. And one following behind another makes you feel that progress is being made and that you are succeeding!
So many prayers for your family, Amy. You'll get there. Just pick a place to start and keep on trying.
Blessings,
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Nissa
Deacon's wife, mother of eleven, farmer, teacher, creator, cook.
At Home With the Gadbois Family
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onemoretracy
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marianne wrote:
One thing that I keep thinking about, not that I've got this part perfectly down yet, is good child training. The better trained my kids are - behavior, chores, school work independence, attitude - the less chaos I'll have, while having more peace. I am gearing up for a crack down around here.
Some examples of my new rules starting when they come home from Grandma's:
NO asking for snacks. Your 3pm snack will be cancelled if you ask.
Do your chores at the proper time without being reminded or you write sentences (50 times: "I will do my morning chores without being asked")
No fighting or you get sent to your room immediately for 30 minutes.
ect....
These are rules that we already had, but I need to be more consistent with consequences. I am praying that this will lead to more peace in our home. I feel like I'm on my last nerve and we haven't even started our school year!
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I think these are some very practical rules. I know that in my loud and busy home that when we stick to stuff like this it really, really helps.
Maybe it is time for you and DH to sit and really talk openly about what kind of atmosphere you enivision in your home. More than likely he has no idea how the chaos is affecting you and what happens in the aftermath his spontaneous ideas.
My DH and I definately have different ideas about atmosphere, but we do try to compromise. He is loud, rowdy and spontaneous himself and doesn't really get how I need the kids to have transition times and set bedtimes etc...But we have talked about it, a lot, and I am sure we will keep on doing so. On my part, I try to be a little more flexible, easygoing and adaptable. I still get fired up and nutty, but I am working on it!
Neither of us is from a big family so we do not have an informed expectation of 'normal for a big family'. I guess we are trying to find our own version of normal. 
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SuzanneG
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Lisbet wrote:
| but I have come to learn that things like getting ready for the pool, no matter how prepared I am and how organized things are, is a whirlwind. I have to accept that. |
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This has been a MAJOR realization for me over the past couple of years. I remember staying up REALLY LATE so that the next day would go smoother.....and it did. With two kids. Maybe with three. NOW, with 5 under age 7. It just doesn't matter what I do or don't do....it's COMPLETE craziness. Fine.
Routines, etc. HELP.....only to make sure that things are actually moving along a bit on their own.....but it doesn't mean it won't be crazy.
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Suzanne in ID
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Bookswithtea
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SuzanneG wrote:
Routines, etc. HELP.....only to make sure that things are actually moving along a bit on their own.....but it doesn't mean it won't be crazy. |
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I'm with Suzanne. Routines help a lot, but they don't control the chaos, they don't fix that dh's often want to head to the pool and don't notice the amount of dishes on the table that need to be cleaned while the baby is cranky. These are the good husbands, too, because they are willing to take a whole crew to the pool!
Its always chaotic for at least part of the day at my house. Dh and I are both on the quieter side and we often look at each other with that *look* of "I can't believe this is normal around here" look, and then we just laugh and get back to acceptance.
Or if one of us is about to lose it, the other one just steps in so that the other can escape to a quieter room for 10 minutes. Did you ever see the Steve Martin movie, Cheaper By the Dozen? What I like about that movie is that chaos is normal in their house. And having older children doesn't make it easier...it just makes it louder. Not because they are doing the same things that the littles are, but because they are either trying to be heard over the din, or are doing something like playing the guitar (which I can hear throughout the house  ).
Dh and I both came from 2 child families and one thing we tell each other regularly is, "This *is* normal" because otherwise its easy to forget.
You know what I think is the worst? Having to go to Mass with all the littles without dh (he works some weekends). I recently had to drop ds off for a trip to Canada with scouts (which ran very late). It ran so late I had to go back home to get the kids ready for Mass (an evening one...it was the best we could do on this weekend) and then take ds back to the drop off point, and still wait for the leaders to finish so that I could leave. At this point, I have 5 children 11 and under (including 3 that are 5 and under) on the way to an evening mass. We are late. Have to park a billion miles away. I get in there and discover we are later than I thought . Some kind man finds seats for my 3 girls. The baby is in the sling while I stand, the 5 yr. old is unnerved because I am not sitting next to her in the pew and is whining, "I want you, Mommy", the the 3 yr old is being loud and a nuisance and every time I tell him to be quiet, he says rather loudly, "No!" This is my most compliant child ever, so I know its because he's tired and I am expecting too much of him, but it was the best I could do to make our Obligation that weekend. I head up for communion with the 3 and 5 yr olds on either side of me and the baby in the sling and the two girls in front of me and just by the wideness of that, I am blocking the other row. By the end of the mass, I am literally in *tears*. God bless the kind family who said something nice to me about "my lovely children" that weekend. They were truly the voice of Jesus to me that day, because I just felt about 2 cm. tall. I still had to get everyone home, make dinner, get everyone into bed (we AP, so bedtime is hard without 2 adults at home). But somehow, I made it through the night.
You are doing fine. More than fine. Its totally normal and it will be normal for a loooooooonnnnnggggg time. Sometimes it will make you want to cry, but Lisbet is right...the more you can accept it as normal, the more fun it is, and the less it will bug you over time. Accept and Embrace. And try to laugh. 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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JodieLyn
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oh my goodness Books.. you've seen me take all the kids to Mass by myself have you?? 
My dh is a wildland firefighter and so during fire season I'm usually alone with the kids.. and on good days.. the olders behave and the littles try and be like the olders and everything goes as well as it can.. but on the bad days.. especially if we have to go to an evening Mass.. oh my.
Just in contrast.. we had to attend the Sat. Evening Mass this past weekend out of town.. swim meet.. the littles were apparently worn out.. we sat down and got settled and all FOUR of the youngest fell asleep.. of course I couldn't move since I had the baby in my lap and the two little boys leaning on me from either side.. dh was holding the 20month old girlie. Quietest Mass I've been to in ages.. I could actually hear AND concentrate.. it was quite the novelty Oh and to deal with all the sleepers.. I just scrunched the boys until they were laying down in the pew and waited for dh to get back from Communion before going up myself.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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monique
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Or if one of us is about to lose it, the other one just steps in so that the other can escape to a quieter room for 10 minutes. Did you ever see the Steve Martin movie, Cheaper By the Dozen? ). |
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Yes, I want one of those megaphones so I don't have to yell to get everyone's attention!
Bookswithtea wrote:
You know what I think is the worst? Having to go to Mass with all the littles without dh (he works some weekends). I recently had to drop ds off for a trip to Canada with scouts (which ran very late). It ran so late I had to go back home to get the kids ready for Mass (an evening one...it was the best we could do on this weekend) and then take ds back to the drop off point, and still wait for the leaders to finish so that I could leave. At this point, I have 5 children 11 and under (including 3 that are 5 and under) on the way to an evening mass. We are late. Have to park a billion miles away. I get in there and discover we are later than I thought . Some kind man finds seats for my 3 girls. The baby is in the sling while I stand, the 5 yr. old is unnerved because I am not sitting next to her in the pew and is whining, "I want you, Mommy", the the 3 yr old is being loud and a nuisance and every time I tell him to be quiet, he says rather loudly, "No!" This is my most compliant child ever, so I know its because he's tired and I am expecting too much of him, but it was the best I could do to make our Obligation that weekend. I head up for communion with the 3 and 5 yr olds on either side of me and the baby in the sling and the two girls in front of me and just by the wideness of that, I am blocking the other row. By the end of the mass, I am literally in *tears*. God bless the kind family who said something nice to me about "my lovely children" that weekend. They were truly the voice of Jesus to me that day, because I just felt about 2 cm. tall. I still had to get everyone home, make dinner, get everyone into bed (we AP, so bedtime is hard without 2 adults at home). But somehow, I made it through the night.
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Boy does this sound familiar. There are so many times I wish I could just crawl in a hole during Mass. I'm so embarrassed and cry all the way home.
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Monique
mom to 5
Raising Saints
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Bookswithtea
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 Well, you have both made me feel better. I thought I was the only one who had to do this. My dh works in a job that cannot "close down" for evenings and weekends, and we are grateful for the job, so I try not to complain, but I confess I do dread Sunday mornings, sometimes...
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Angel
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I'm just seeing this because I've been having my own chaotic life this week , but I did want to mention something that I don't think anybody else has. Amy, your kids (at least a few of them, right?) have special needs -- behavioral special needs, in addition to all the allergies you have to navigate on a daily basis. Speaking from experience, life with a kid or kids who are oppositional, distracible, defiant, who lack the ability to deal with frustration, who may or may not have sensory quirks... is always highly chaotic. From what I have seen of other large families, many of my kids are both MORE and LESS. MORE intense, MORE sensitive, LESS able to concentrate, LESS able to cope.
I remember when my oldest ds was 9 and still having enormous meltdowns every single day. I mean, enormous psychotic meltdowns over things that in a "normal" family would result in an argument, sure, but in our house meant flinging toys and blocks and whatever came to hand, and me having to bodily shove him out the door and lock it so that my 2 yo and infant twins wouldn't get hurt. This is not saying that this ever happens in your house, but it did take me a while to understand that when other people described "chaos" as if they knew what I was talking about, they really had no idea. My chaos and their chaos were two totally different animals.
Once my dh and I came to understand this -- to *admit* this, really, that the chaos and stress in our lives went above and beyond what anyone, even a large family, would call "normal" -- it was easier to deal with. For one thing, it made it possible to get help. Once we got help and understood how to deal with my ds, our lives became less chaotic. We're still not down to normal levels -- I still spend much more time working on simple social skills with my 11 yo, things like taking turns and sharing -- than anyone I know, but it's better. Now it's the twins' turn to wreak havoc.
I *think* this may be more where you're coming from, maybe? I mean, having been in that place where it takes an hour just to get a 9 yo to put on her clothes while dealing with an 11 yo who's throwing a fit because you asked him to do 5 more math problems, a 2 yo who's following you around having a meltdown because he just tried to hit his brother over the head with a rake and you took it away, while his 2 yo brother cannot stop pulling the baby's hair, to the point that it's starting to become apparent that this may actually be an obsession or a tic (stuff we deal with in our family), and the baby will only sleep in twenty minute increments...
I think Lisa's right. The first step in dealing with it all is just to accept it. On those days when I am feeling envious of other people's "peaceful" existence, I have really, really bad days. On those days that I just say, "This is *our* normal and I am just going to deal with it as it is," I can cope much better.
-- Angela
Three Plus Two
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juststartn
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Wow...I don't even TRY to make it to Mass without DH, if I am taking all of my dc....nuh-uh. Twin 14mos olds, a child who REALLLLLLLLY has problems with:sleep schedules (she wants to nap whenever she gets settled too long in one place), sugar levels (she'd be screaming by the end of a Vigil Mass)....then there are the older two who I am trying to get to the point where they can actually get what is going on and pay some attention...sigh...
Nope. Doesn't happen. DH works for one of those jobs--odd hours and days...really really stinks. So for now, we tag team mass. I go Sat evening he goes Sun am. That way he can sleep as long as he needs to, on Sat, and Sun he can be "normal"...
Rachel
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amyable
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Angel wrote:
| I *think* this may be more where you're coming from, maybe? I mean, having been in that place where it takes an hour just to get a 9 yo to put on her clothes while dealing with an 11 yo who's throwing a fit because you asked him to do 5 more math problems, a 2 yo who's following you around having a meltdown because he just tried to hit his brother over the head with a rake and you took it away, while his 2yo brother cannot stop pulling the baby's hair, to the point that it's starting to become apparent that this may actually be an obsession or a tic (stuff we deal with in our family), and the baby will only sleep in twenty minute increments... |
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Ah yes, THIS is my everyday existance. How could I forget the impact the special needs have? Maybe because things have improved over the past year (at least with my oldest - although the 3yo seems worse than she ever was , either that or I have selective amnesia which is totally possible!!) That can put a whole new spin on things. I can be doing *everything* right and still have a difficult family. Epiphany! Not that I *am* doing everything right, but the chaos no longer has to be all my fault when I remember their special needs.
Any of you great moms out there write a book about large families and special needs? Mary Ellen?
At the risk of sounding like a broken record - thank you all again for sharing your stories.
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Anne McD
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 21 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 499
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| Posted: Aug 08 2008 at 5:06am | IP Logged
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nissag wrote:
How bout:: "Cleanliness is next to impossible".
Blessings, |
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I'm going to laminate this and put it on my fridge!!
__________________
Anne
Wife to Jon
Mommy to Alex 9
James 8
Katie 6
William 3 1/2
Benedict Joseph 1
and baby on the way! 10/14
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Is this just life in a large family?
