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Michaela
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 9:35am | IP Logged
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Maybe it's because having children, especially many children, can make people need to justify in their own mind why they chose not to have more.
Money seems to be a big one. The how can you afford another child? Large families MUST receive assistance somewhere, some program (WIC/WELFARE). That means their hard earned money pays to feed and clothe my family. ( That's what strangers may believe, but my husband provides for our family) Or the holidays and gifts....my children don't get anything from most of our LARGE extended family. Our first received enough for several children, but now we have four, nobody even receives a single card. NOT even a phone call on a birthday! The one person who does give for Christmas or Birthdays reminds me that the cost of buying so many gifts is prohibitive. There isn't joy in being able to celebrate, but the constant discussion of another upcoming holiday or birthday that requires money to be spent.
Cost? My older brother is a schizophrenic (to the point he cannot get or keep any job). He does work seasonal in landscaping, money is a serious issue for him. He has absolutely nothing, however he gave each of my children a dollar store toy they absolutely LOVED. My heart was so deeply touched because I knew $4 to him is like $100 or more to someone else.
I don't want gifts that only money can buy. I do want my children to know that they are wanted, cared about, and loved by our family.
Family get togethers....How can they afford to feed all 6 of us? We are no longer invited.
Grandparents and older sibilings remember what they went through financially with children...maybe it's some horrible case of flashback.  
I've heard many times that once someone mentioned that they planned to homeschool, their parents became upset. Why don't you think what they did (sending you to public school or all that money they spent for private school) was good enough? They have to reflect and may feel judged. Same with having more children. They may reflect on the reasons they stopped. That's a lot of emotions to deal with...especially if they made the choice to stop or even if they really wanted another child, but could not. Hearing the news of another pregnancy may bring those feelings of sadness back.
The store clerk who may share that she would LOVE another child, but she can barely put food on the table for one now. That goes to another part of this....almost ALL of our extended family have children with different fathers or mothers. Marriage? What is that? So, they are all skewed when it comes to the blessings of adding more children.
A lot of it boils down to money in one way or another. Materialism...wanting material items that really aren't needed.
Yes, there is concern about our health, absolutely! I'm concerned about my own health and having another, so I imagine those who care about me may become a little nervous, too. Mental health...I've never ever hidden the problems I went through with PPD after my twins. That was a legitimate concern my family had when I was pregnant with my youngest.
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Michaela
Momma to Nicholas 16, Nathan 13, Olivia 13, Teresa 6, & Anthony 3
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crusermom
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 1:29pm | IP Logged
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I just love when a perfect stranger throws the money question at me. How can you afford all those kids? Your husband must be a millionaire. No, actually he is in the Army - What??? They usually look somewhat stunned and walk away.
Sometimes I tell people that it is parents that are expensive, not children. Kids don't need to dress from the gap or attend expensive camps or have new furniture in their rooms or have their own room. I love those estimates of what it costs to raise a child. Are people really spending that much?
Mary
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Mary
Army wife and Crusermom to 8 wonderful children!
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 2:50pm | IP Logged
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crusermom wrote:
| Sometimes I tell people that it is parents that are expensive, not children. |
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A very astute comment, Mary! I'll have to think some more about how to respond. The last woman who asked me had that longing in her eyes. She sooooooooooooo wanted another baby, and wasn't disparaging, although she did ask (as everyone was piling out of the van) if they were all ours.
The only comment that sends me over the edge is when people ask about a second marriage or different fathers.  That happens sometimes when I have one of the oldest and one of the youngest with me, with no one in between. 
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Anneof 5
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 2:58pm | IP Logged
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Wow, this conversation brings back some bad memories for me. When we found out we were pregnant with our first, we told the in-laws. Mil's reaction was don't announce anything yet or you will ruin brother-in law's upcoming wedding (a few weeks away). I miscarried the next two, then had ds, and when we announced the next pregnancy there were no congratulations. I had the two older kids tell grandma (who by the way does not want to be called that) about that pregnancy as I didn't want to deal with the rejection again. My last pregnancy was at age 40 and when I began miscarrying and called my dh to come home, fil came in the door first, asked what the emergency was and when I told him he said, "is that all?" When we somewhat fearfully (to them!) announced we were adopting an African American baby boy, mil told us we were making a big mistake. We adopted again two years later. I got comments that this was enough, I was getting "too old", was this good for my health, on and on. My sister is always asking me how I am feeling, telling me I should put the kids in school, etc. I think she is trying to undermind me. I am so tired of the comments and I only have 5!! They would just fall over if they heard how many some of you have  and others at my church. I thought I was over the "baby" stage but lately have been dreaming about adopting once again. Not sure what we would do but if someone came to us and asked us to adopt a baby or child, I don't think I could say no. I still long to hold a little one in my arms even if I am "old".
Anne
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DivineMercy
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
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Ladies,
Thank you each so much for sharing your advice with me and most especially your prayers. In talking with my wonderful husband, he feels that as the children get older I may change and I hope so. I have 3 boys and the oldest is 4 so he seems to think that their ages may have a lot to do with it.
Oh Laura, I am so sorry that you have been made to feel badly for not having more children, but I do know what you mean. My son's godmother is no longer able to have children and is young so in our parish she gets comments of "Well, that's a good start. When's the next?" from people who don't know. Thank you again for your prayers and you are in mine.
Mary, I love what your son said! That is terrific. I do not have any Catholic friends as we are new converts and I will definitely do what I can to seek out new friends.
Martha, thank you so much for sharing that. I have printed out your post to read over and over that I am not alone. That has helped in ways I can't even describe.
My day was much brighter with your prayers.
Michelle
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juststartn
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
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I think alot of it is that when we make these "countercultural" decisions, esp ones that our parents made differently, welllllll....it rubs folks the wrong way. As if we are, by our very existence, condemning them (an inaccurate perception, perhaps). Mayhap it is their conscience speaking to them of "what could have been" had they just been willing to let go of a few of those "things" that stood in the way...selfishness, pride, etc.
Shoot, sometimes it is as if my dc simply drawing breath irritates people (and my dc are by and large friendly, polite, clean, and neat. Not urchins begging for alms!).
I know of several women who would *love* to be blessed with even one baby...some who, for whatever reason, have had their wombs closed after one, or two. The slings and arrows of being "slammed" for "not being open to life" are a cross of a different sort....esp when one would *love* a wee one...I have to say, that being around these ladies has really made a change in my attitude/perceptions about such things.. 
Its just really really sad...
Rachel
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Married DH 4/1/95
Lily 3/11/00
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SallyT
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
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Michelle -- "only" 3 aged 4 and down is a handful! My youngest two (of four) are 16 months apart, and even now together they can wear me out! I feel very blessed also to have a teenager. Having olders AND youngers is far easier than just having youngers. Mine are really spread out, by the way -- 14, 10, just-turned-6 and 4. You can kind of chart my conversion by the spacing . . .
So we "only" have four and have gotten negative family reactions, too, though they've mostly worn off once the baby actually arrived. My family are just brainwashed with this whole environmental/multiculti/feminist thing, and lately, maybe because we're moving soon, we've gotten all kinds of digs about giving our kids a "narrow Catholic education" featuring only "dead white Europeans" and "no exposure to different kinds of people." Of course, our Mass of a Sunday is way more diverse-looking than their Methodist and Presbyterian services, but that seems not to count somehow. Wrong kind of diverse.
Meanwhile, my brother and his wife invited our older kids canoeing the other week, and my sister-in-law used the opportunity of driving to the river with my 14yo to go on to her about how "all religions have truth," and doesn't she NOT want to go to a Catholic college, because she's smart enough to get a "well-rounded education," blah blah blah. My daughter held her own -- she's not about to get talked out of her faith, and these experiences of late have made her really rethink her relationship with my sister-in-law. They had been quite close, but my daughter increasingly resents these intrusions on her freedom to practice her faith in peace. All in the name of being open-minded, of course.
I think negativity about openness to life comes from much the same kind of source, oftentimes. There's the self-loathing "environmental" resentment of making such a big carbon footprint . . . there's also that feminist thing of not doing anything interesting with your life if "all" you are is a mother. I hear that a lot, from both my mother and the same sister-in-law. She and my brother, who do not intend to have children, ever, love my kids and like to "borrow" them for quick fixes of imagining that they're being parental (see "canoe trip," above), but my husband and I are hopeless fascist bores for having them. Go figure that one out . . . I just keep thinking that they're going to find old age really lonely and depressing, because the dog is not going to visit them in the nursing home.
Whew. We're about to move, and I've been feeling very under fire (not about having a new baby, because we're not, alas, but about our whole lifestyle and faith), which is NOT the way I really want to take leave of my family. I realize all this doesn't have that much to do with the topic of conversation -- guess my nerve got touched.
On the humorous side, a good friend of mine is one of 15 kids. Once a neighbor actually showed up on her parents' doorstep, irate, and proceeded to chew her father out for having so many children. "Thanks to you," the neighbor said, " because you have too many, we AREN'T having children." My friend's father smiled serenely and said, "That's just as well," and quietly closed the door.
Prayers for all of you carrying these kinds of crosses right now. Somehow the ones that come from family seem the heaviest. And meanwhile, one good but not-really-feasible response to these pesky questions and comments would be to hand each commenter a copy of PD James's novel The Children of Men . . . just a little object lesson in what a no-children culture might look like.
Go buy a stack and carry them with you.
Sally
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Red Cardigan
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 10:34pm | IP Logged
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DivineMercy,  !
Right after our third was born and we had three under three I thought I was going under--and that was before I ended up in the hospital for a week.
Because of health issues, we still have "only" three, but now I'd love to have even one more if God will resolve a health problem (which is totally up to Him, of course!).
I thought we would use NFP for a couple of years so I could do what I needed for my three littles--I never dreamed my "break" would go on so long. But I know crosses come in all shapes and sizes, too.
I'm one of nine--so if any of you have parents who are less than joyful for your "news" I can guarantee you that a couple of experienced grandparents in Alabama would welcome you with open arms and congratulate you for adding to your families! (And invite you in for a casserole, too, most likely).
The family of God rejoices with you when you welcome each of these new littles. We get to perform three of the Corporal Acts of Mercy at once when we have a baby: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and welcome the stranger!  When else do we ever get an opportunity to do that?
Congratulations to all of you who are expecting--and please keep the rest of us in your prayers, that we'll be content to do God's will whether that ever includes a precious new little one or not.
God bless!
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
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I think some people say things because they don't know what to say and are trying to be funny. My BIL gave me the "You know what causes that, don't ya?" with the last pregnancy. It was the first time I had heard that, so I thought it was kind of weird but I didn't take it personal. I really like my BIL. Then I got a few, "Wow, you are really are Catholic." I'm thinking, "This is only my third. You should see some of the women I hang out with on-line."
But I have one dear friend who says "Congratulations!" with one breath and implies I'm crazy in the next, just for having three. I can almost hear him shaking his head over the phone. He got married two years ago. He and his wife are both very involved with their Catholic Church, but he is adamant about not wanting any kids. He really sees them as burdens that would interfere with traveling. He is very frugal and hardworking in most of his life to save up for the things he really enjoys: guns, dvds, and traveling to NASCAR events. The saddest part is that he is such a nice guy that I know he would make a terrific father; he has always been a very good friend to me. He's like a brother, ya know?
Well, his dad and step-mom just adopted her pre-school aged grandchildren. My friend was lamenting that his dad was being burdened with these kids when he should be enjoying his golden years (I think his dad is close to sixty). But then he talks about how the kids have really livened up his dad, made his dad more active, and how his dad is probably in better health because of the kids. Then he starts lamenting for his father's situation again. My friend just doesn't get that babies = more love, even when they drive you crazy.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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SallyT
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| Posted: July 22 2008 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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The idea of finding joy through giving up yourself doesn't get much mileage in our culture. Sacrifice makes you . . . happy? Does not compute, does not compute.
And yes, the family of God does rejoice. What a beautiful reminder.
Sally
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Why do they do that?!?!?!
