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Rachel May
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missionfamily wrote:
| Jenn--The whole six week thing can feel discouraging to me too... |
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I have the same discouragement. I love that in Screwtape C.S. Lewis points out this devil's trick. We think that we need to have the motivation for the entire 6 weeks today instead of moment to moment.
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Rachel May
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Jenn, Brave New World is by Huxley. Has Chesterton written something similar? I've never read anything of his. 
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JennGM
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Rachel May wrote:
| Jenn, Brave New World is by Huxley. Has Chesterton written something similar? I've never read anything of his. |
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Strike Two for me! Must just have Chesterton on the brain. His book I was thinking of is Brave New Family. Oops!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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Rachel May wrote:
missionfamily wrote:
| Jenn--The whole six week thing can feel discouraging to me too... |
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I have the same discouragement. I love that in Screwtape C.S. Lewis points out this devil's trick. We think that we need to have the motivation for the entire 6 weeks today instead of moment to moment. |
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Oooh, love the C.S. Lewis tie in!
I'm feeling quite happy today, as I got in my shower, cleaned my bathroom, dinner is started and it's only 10:30. So will pride go before a fall? How can I not fall into the trap of feeling prideful on doing things I should be doing anyway?!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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JennGM
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amyzkids8 wrote:
7. Children can pick up habits from the actions and attitudes of those around them.
Why is it always so much easier to pick up the bad habits?? I guess because of our fallen nature. So, then it also holds true that "a certain strenuousness in the formation of good habits is necessary because every such habit is the result of conflict." |
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Sigh, isn't that the case? They do seem to mirror the worst habits I have. It's double work -- we're working on ingraining good habits in our children, but it requires us to work on ours first, and doubly hard!
amyzkids8 wrote:
One thing that was a little confusing to me:
In Ch.1 point#3 she speaks of taking away the child's free-will and making him an "automaton" - I think this is a rhetorical question that would be answered negatively, but I am not sure. By training the child in good habits are we turning him into a robot? I think not, but can't this be taken in the wrong way? We ar enot taking away his free will - we are trying to instill these habits so that one day he will want to do them freely. Help! |
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I didn't see the words automation or the idea of a robot. I know I'm reading into the quotes, but I see it directly corresponds to teachings on virtue and sin. Freely choosing to do something evil, committing that sin. It might be hard the first time, then easier subsequent times and then automatic. We wake up and we're immersed in a sinful habit that we can't shake. (Not completely on target, but it brings to mind that quote from Evelyn Waugh from Brideshead Revisited on "living in sin"). By the time it's a habit, it's not deliberate, but it's still sinful.
In the same way we develop virtues. We're not trying to make our children on autopilot, but after deliberately choosing the good habit or virtue, it becomes less thought and more habitual, but in a good sense. We are living virtuous lives. Of course as adults we KNOW that we can't rest on our laurels on one or two good habits, as it takes a lifetime of good habits and virtues to work to get to heaven.
Does that make sense, or am I completely off?
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Jennifer G. Miller
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SuzanneG wrote:
| I'm going to re-read this tonight. But, it goes along the lines of something that I've wondered about, but haven't been able to put words to. How to make habits not "rigid." How do habit formation and unschooling mix? What to require vs. what creates creativity and spontaneity in our home education environments? Just throwing out some questions that have been rolling around..... |
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Here are my thoughts, which may be completely inaccurate. But although this is Charlotte Mason speaking, I find so much of it speaks the truth of our vocation as parents, especially as Catholic parents. Character formation is a vital role of parents.
And regardless of any philosophy of education, any approach, formation of the child's character must be the underlying principle, the bedrock of the whole education process. If a child isn't formed in learning self-discipline (which oversimplified seems to be the main thrust of all habits and virtues) how is it going to be real learning?
Creativity and spontaneity work better in an ordered environment. Is it a good thing to spontaneously decide to attack fingerpaints? Yes, but think of how much better it would be if a) the fingerpaints and supplies were in a proper place, easy to find, b) the workspace was cleaned because of previous chore routines, and c) cleaning up is included in the process. Those are good habits that don't mar the creativity, but enhance. If so much time is spent finding the materials, and if the project isn't cleaned up the next creative spurt is delayed because of dried paint, change of clothes (because couldn't find the apron), etc.... I don't see them as rigid, but help the flow of learning.
I was thinking that the best approach would be to discuss the whole process with the family/child, and let the child identify his own problem areas. And then we can work out a plan together to attack them. I talk with my son on the areas I am working to foster better habits, too.
To me, developing virtues and habits aren't optional. These are a small reflection of working on our spiritual lives, which is a lifetime of work. We can't rest for a moment, or become lukewarm. Fits and starts and spontaneity I don't see as an optional approach in working towards heaven. It doesn't have to be drudge work, or "rigid" as you say, but it must be constant.
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missionfamily wrote:
Jenn--The whole six week thing can feel discouraging to me too...I like to feel like I'm getting a lot accomplished! It's hard to be patient and persistent. But one thought that has helped me is to think through the moral and spiritual ends of the physical habits. For instance, we are working on an established chore routine in this house, morning and afternoon chores...so I need to take six weeks to really ingrain those habits...but if we practice doing those jobs cheerfully and generously, if I encourage excellence in the process, and if I help them keep mentally focused while working, then in those six weeks, I've worked on a whole heap of things much bigger than the chore routine. That helps me to stay persistent. Those habits are much more worthwhile to me than the chores, and the are things I can be owrking on in myself over the course of those weeks too.
I figure if six weeks later we are all a bit more cheerful, generous, and focused, and I get a good chore routine to boot, that's well worth the effort. |
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Colleen, I so need your positive outlook! Please come visit me when you're in this area! This is such a great point -- killing many birds with one stone! I think I have said this a few times, but when I read "habits" I'm seeing "virtues" and how inseparable they are. All this is a journey in our spiritual life.
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Maria B.
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I am struggling with keeping the good habits we developed over the school year - morning chores, prayer time, etc. - through the summer. For the first time, my three younger boys (10, 8 and 6) have neighborhood friends (right across the street). They ring the doorbell by 9 am and seem to be free the entire day. When they go in for a meal, they come out 10 minutes later, even at dinner time. My boys pester me all morning through their chores and few lessons to hurry and go out. It is such a struggle when their playmates seem to have no structure (or habits) whatsoever. I am always the big mean mommy. So how do we form habits in our children when most everyone around them seems to be living a carefree life with few responsibilities (if any) at home?
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amyzkids8
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The section on Manners got me thinking about good books to read to the kids. Two that I have are:
Everyday Graces, by Karen Santorum
Manners Can be Fun, by Munro Leaf
There are also "How to Behave and Why" and "How to Speak Politely and WHy" by Munro Leaf
Any other suggestions?
I like the idea of role-playing situations - you could have one child show the wrong way and the other show the right way.
Another fun way to tie in History to Manners by using copywork is the book
Handwriting by George, by Greenleaf Press
It takes quotes from G. Washington's Rules of Civility and gives a space to copy them and a space to illustrate.
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amyzkids8 wrote:
The section on Manners got me thinking about good books to read to the kids. Two that I have are:
Everyday Graces, by Karen Santorum
Manners Can be Fun, by Munro Leaf
There are also "How to Behave and Why" and "How to Speak Politely and WHy" by Munro Leaf
Any other suggestions? |
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Oh, great suggestions. You just opened up a new world of Munro Leaf to me. Thanks!
I recently picked up Goops and How to Be Them: A Manual of Manners for Polite Infants Inculcating Many Juvenile Virtues, etc. by Gelett Burgess. My son loves this. I see there's another Treasury of Goops with watercolor illustrations by Barbara Ross that looks good. I'm wondering if this volume has all the Goops books?
amyzkids8 wrote:
I like the idea of role-playing situations - you could have one child show the wrong way and the other show the right way.
Another fun way to tie in History to Manners by using copywork is the book
Handwriting by George, by Greenleaf Press
It takes quotes from G. Washington's Rules of Civility and gives a space to copy them and a space to illustrate. |
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Again, another great suggestion! Thanks!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Mare
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I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts.
JennGM wrote:
| To me, developing virtues and habits aren't optional. These are a small reflection of working on our spiritual lives, which is a lifetime of work. We can't rest for a moment, or become lukewarm. Fits and starts and spontaneity I don't see as an optional approach in working towards heaven. It doesn't have to be drudge work, or "rigid" as you say, but it must be constant. |
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I agree... And being constant isn't an easy task either... I'm always praying for grace to do my job as a mother and wife.
This book has really brought to mind the habits that I need to instill in myself first before I can expect my children to form them. Oh, so humbling...
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asplendidtime
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LLMom wrote:
| My problem is shear number of people I am trying to train to do the basic morning routine. They forget to make their beds (or whatever it maybe) and I don't catch it until they are off somewhere so they are not developing it into a habit. Any ideas? |
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In our case, we've had the same habit/routines since they were very small. If they are off somewhere it is because they didn't want to do the routine, or thought they could get away without doing it completely. So that means Mom's follow up routine is to check on them... that is the only strength in my establishing any routines, they are only as strong and firm as I am in checking.
P.S. I thought I would add that 6 weeks before William was born, I thought I would train the dc in the buddy system. For an older to help train a younger one to do their routines so I wouldn't lose our habit after baby was born. This worked well and was less work for me to check up, more of a glance to make sure it was done alright than trying to get them to do it, keep at it, then check up later.
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cornomama4
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[QUOTE=JennGM] My melancholic side of my temperament tends to easily fall into discouragement. I look at my son and think "I've failed!" I'm buoyed up at the thought of changing and establishing good habits, then the idea of taking 6 weeks, and requiring perseverance on my part, I get discouraged again! So many of the habit training depends on me starting a good habit to keep ds on track with his."
This is so "me" about almost everything now days! I'm forever planning and looking for some new "routine" that will set things on an orderly path around here, but once the novelty wears off it's really hard to keep up with it.
One thing I was struck by while reading this thread (which I FINALLY had a chance to do!) was the whole idea of a new habit taking 6 weeks to form. Well, that's 6 weeks more or less, right. And how many days is that?? 42, more or less or let's just say 40. That number sound familiar to anyone?
I am about to start a new routine here, after having been inspired by a really with-it mom (  you know who you are!) and after having really THOUGHT about the parts of it. It's simple, it's good for the kids, it's good for the parents, it's good for the chickens, etc....but this time when the old struggle to continue past the first week or so comes, I'm planning to remember what 40 days are all about, and how these relatively minor trials are a purification period which will produce a stronger person in the end. It ain't easy, so I guess that's how I know it's good for me!
Just my rambling $.02
cm4
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4Real Forums : Book Club
Topic: Laying Down the Rails Discussion
