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juststartn
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| Posted: June 23 2008 at 9:44pm | IP Logged
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We just moved to a new area in early April, and are just now getting ready for the new school year with the co-op here (DH insists, as the girls need friends)
The thing is, they have a statement of faith that I am, of course, a wee leery of-mostly because Catholics are so few and far between here anyway, and hsing Catholics even rarer...but if I don't sign, no co-op for us...
Now, the main thing that snags me up...is this last bit here:
"We believe that those who by faith alone and through no merit of their own receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, are forgiven of their sin, are made anew, filled with the Holy SPirit and become children of God and partakers of His divine nature and eternal life."
In general, I have no issue with this--but my protestant upbringing still shades my life (not an overtly bad thing, but there is something that makes me leery of relying on my own understanding of things...
Any thoughts?
Rachel
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Kristie 4
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| Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
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This can be so hard for some of my Catholic friends- to have to sign the statement of faith for entrance into the group. I am not Catholic, but find it very difficult to see friends be made to feel like outcasts.
Sorry no advice...just compassion.
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juststartn
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| Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
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Here it is in its entirety...
Here's what it says:
"We believe the Holy Bible as complete, God breathed, divine revelation without error.
We believe that God is eternall one and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the three being distinct but not separate.
We believe that Christ is both the complete and only God and perfect man. Without abandoning His divinity, He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin, lived a genuine human life without sin, died a vicarious and all-inclusive death on the cross and His bodily resurrection was necessary and sufficient for the redemption of man.
We believe in His imminent return with the kingdom of God.
We believe that the third of the Trinity, the Spirit, is equally God. All that the Father has and is, is expressed by the Son, and all that the Son has and is, is realized as the Spirit.
We believe that mankind is in need of God's salvation. Though we are sinners and fall short of God's Glory, Christ fullfilled all the requirements through His death on the Cross. Because of Christ's death, God has forgiven us of our sins, reconciled us to Himself, and justified us by making Christ our righteousness.
We believe that those who by faith alone and through no merit of their own receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, are forgiven of their sin, are made anew, filled with the Holy Spirit, and become children of God and partakers of His divine nature and eternal life."
There are a few areas that I have concerns with, and I have to sign indicating my complete agreement...and I want to make sure that I can do that...
any other thoughts?
Kristie, its not so much feeling like an outcast--my protestant background helps with that, cause I know I can talk to just about any Protestant and find enough in common...
Its more that I don't want to sign something I really cannot agree with...I only converted (I was raised a non-denom protestant) 2+yrs ago, so I'm still a light weight when it comes to this sort of stuff...most of it seems close enough, but there's just enough doubt in my mind that I am seeking other opinions.
Rachel
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:54pm | IP Logged
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In actuality, this is really a lot better than a lot of the SOF I have seen.
They didn't say the Bible is the "only" revelation (negating Sacred Tradition and the Papacy.) They didn't state the number of books in the Bible - "the 66 books of the Bible" - which negates the ones Catholics include.
They could mean these things, but that fact that it is NOT already spelled out that way - could be because they are trying to NOT exclude Catholics? Maybe there is a Catholic member who explained parts that could be problematic? Because, as I said, as SOF go, this is pretty tame (altho I knwo what you mean about feeling leery....)
My only thoughts? I can't stand SOF like this at all. A group can have a much nicer "code of conduct" w/o having to do SOF telling each person what they have to believe and how they have to believe it. I worry that if much of the group really does believe things like sola sriptura and sola fide, that your children are going to be challenged a lot by well-meaning people wanting to save you, when it is supposed to be about making friends at the co-op.
And I can SO relate to moving to a new area and wanting friends for the kids - badly!!!!! I am right there with ya....
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juststartn
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| Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:51pm | IP Logged
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A friend on another board suggested that I ask if I can just sign a copy of the Nicene Creed. 
Rachel
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LucyP
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I have never joined a group where I had to sign a statement of faith. Wow. I guess I can understand that it helps to have everyone on the same page - once I was in an online group with a self-desribed Christian, who later turned out to be a mormon and that was a surprise. But really! I thought America was the land of the free!
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 12:19pm | IP Logged
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LucyP wrote:
| I thought America was the land of the free! |
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America is...homeschool groups, well, not so much  .
I am going to make some generalizations here, and these are just my personal experiences.
I use an Evangelical Christian Curriculum (Sonlight), and I hang out on the SL forums a lot. A lot of the very conservative evangelicals don't like to be with anyone that doesn't share their worldview. They find it somewhat threatening, especially to their children. And, sometimes, they are shocked to find out that you could disagree with their worldview (as it makes perfect sense to them.) SOF tend to ensure an insular type of situation.
Often these same people like to tell Catholics what we "really" believe.
As I said, some of the SOF I have been presented with over the years I could in NO way sign, and they knew it. I have also had others come to me and ask me which parts were problematic for a Catholic, so they could word it differently to still uphold their beliefs, while at the same time not excluding Catholics (those type of groups tend to be more open-minded anyway, and made up of many different flavors of Christian.)
Children in very conservative groups WILL tell your child they are going to h*ll simply for being a Catholic. It is a horrible thing to hear one 6 year old say to another. The parents feel they are just trying to save you.
The SL forums was also the place that I learned that MANY Christian churches see their Vacation Bible School as an "Outreach Ministry" - and not just a fun place for kids to spend a week learning about Jesus together.  It was quite eye-opening to hear them discuss it.
Anyway, this is way more than the OP wanted to know, I am sure 
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Betsy
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This is way off topic, but here is my two cents about trying to "find" a group right after a big move.
I have made two moves in the last 3.5 years. My experience as been that it truly takes about 1-1.5 years (yes years) to meet good, quality friends (I am not talking about acquaintances or neighbors, etc). The first year in both new places were VERY lonely times for me and my children. But, they were also very, very deep spiritual times. We grew in amazing ways as a family, without the outside pressures of having to pick and choose activities or say no to people.
With that being said, I did try to "force" situations more with my first move to get the social aspect that I felt I and my children needed. Most of those efforts did not turn out well and no lasting friendships came from them.
In my new location I have fought to feeling to desperately run to groups that are suppose to be like minded because they are Catholic or home school, etc. Especially if I didn't know if they would be a good fit. My patients has been rewarded with finally finding the right groups to be a part of and meeting a few friends in which we as mother get along, the kids get along and in general as a family we get along. These are what we really want and crave!!!
However, a year or so is a long time to "just sit at home" so to speak. So, we really evolved ourselves in what I call "low risk" social outing. We got involved in sports and local classes. This was enough social so that my kids felt like they had "friends" even though it was only for the length of the season or class. And we spend a lot of time exploring what the surrounding area has to offer (it's amazing how when life gets busy we can forget to take advantage of local attractions...this is a great time to visit them all and find our favorites)
I hope this helps some of you give some perspective to the wonderful yet difficult transition to a new area. PM if you would like to talk about it more.
Betsy
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teachingmyown
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My $.02? Your girls have each other, they don't "need" friends. (I have three girls roughly the same age.) I would give yourself a year to get settled, then re-visit the whole subject.
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folklaur
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Betsy wrote:
This is way off topic, but here is my two cents about trying to "find" a group right after a big move.
I have made two moves in the last 3.5 years. My experience as been that it truly takes about 1-1.5 years (yes years) to meet good, quality friends (I am not talking about acquaintances or neighbors, etc). The first year in both new places were VERY lonely times for me and my children. But, they were also very, very deep spiritual times. We grew in amazing ways as a family, without the outside pressures of having to pick and choose activities or say no to people.
With that being said, I did try to "force" situations more with my first move to get the social aspect that I felt I and my children needed. Most of those efforts did not turn out well and no lasting friendships came from them.
In my new location I have fought to feeling to desperately run to groups that are suppose to be like minded because they are Catholic or home school, etc. Especially if I didn't know if they would be a good fit. My patients has been rewarded with finally finding the right groups to be a part of and meeting a few friends in which we as mother get along, the kids get along and in general as a family we get along. These are what we really want and crave!!!
However, a year or so is a long time to "just sit at home" so to speak. So, we really evolved ourselves in what I call "low risk" social outing. We got involved in sports and local classes. This was enough social so that my kids felt like they had "friends" even though it was only for the length of the season or class. And we spend a lot of time exploring what the surrounding area has to offer (it's amazing how when life gets busy we can forget to take advantage of local attractions...this is a great time to visit them all and find our favorites)
I hope this helps some of you give some perspective to the wonderful yet difficult transition to a new area. PM if you would like to talk about it more.
Betsy |
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Betsy,
Thank you so much for this post. It was something I really needed to hear this morning, and really has touched me. I appreciate you sharing so much!!! Thank you!
I have my kids in Gymnastics, and they will do some city classes soon. It is probably "enough" for the time being...and I think I may need to readjust my thinking a little bit.
again, thank you so much 
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Martha
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well here's a questin for you to pose to them:
Is this THEIR statement of faith or are they wanting to you to sign agreeing that it is also YOUR statement of faith?
Two very different things there.
If they just want to be clear who they are and what they beleive to avoid toe stepping, then fine.
If they only want those who also agree and accept that SOF, then that would be a problem for me.
Catholics don't believe in "faith alone" and frankly I don't think any genuine christian does if you really get down to it. Works matter. Otherwise the only difference between a christian and a non believer woudl be a title. Jesus didn't just call us believe in Him. He calls us to FOLLOW Him.
Also, does God forgive the unrepentant? That's what I'm getting from the SOF. Profess to believe and your donw - all's forgiven. Really? Hmmm. No, I don't think so.
Now if they are just wanting members to understand who they are dealing with when joining, that's one thing.
If they only want member who agree with that statement of faith - I'd go elsewhere. If for no other reason, than there's always going to a glass wall between myself and them the minute I mention I'm Catholic.
Personally, I think you have plenty going on without the coop.
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juststartn
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I do too, Martha, and I wouldn't mind skipping out on the co-op, mostly...but DH is adamant about getting them into "something". We can't do classes...between money and driving, its just not an option (plus, there's not much available out here)
What it says after those blurbs is:
"ACHE Co-op is asking that adult participants read the above statement indicating your "complete agreement" (note: this is underlined in the papers I got) with the brief statements. If you cannot sign with conviction, please consider another co-op that will better suit your beliefs and needs. If any of these statements need further explanation, see a board member."
I emailed the one contact lady I had and asked her if she could find out if a signed Nicene Creed would be acceptable. If I don't at least make a token effort, DH will be very upset. Our girls are super friendly, and he takes that as a need to have more friends (I take it as they are super friendly and just flat out like people...but perhaps it is somewhere in between).
The closest Catholic hsing group is likely in Norman (45min away), or OKC, which is a good hour, hour plus (depending on where in the city. They just aren't a whole lot of us out here in the rural areas of OK.
Rachel
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Betsy
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Laura
You are welcome...it's nice to know that sometimes the lessons that you have learned the hard way can help someone else.
You will be surprised how fast the time can go too!!
Betsy
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Martha
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juststartn wrote:
I do too, Martha, and I wouldn't mind skipping out on the co-op, mostly...but DH is adamant about getting them into "something". We can't do classes...between money and driving, its just not an option (plus, there's not much available out here)
What it says after those blurbs is:
"ACHE Co-op is asking that adult participants read the above statement indicating your "complete agreement" (note: this is underlined in the papers I got) with the brief statements. If you cannot sign with conviction, please consider another co-op that will better suit your beliefs and needs. If any of these statements need further explanation, see a board member." |
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wow. that sounds pretty clear cut to me that they aren't going to work for you. I get pleaseing the hubby thing. But aren't they already in two class thingies? Or does he not consider gym a class thing? I propose you've done what you can and I understand how sparse us Okie hs-ing catholics are! But if he want them to make friends and be "social" - I have to note that doesn't strike me as a coop that's going to be very warm and cozy for your girls, kwim?
picturing the looks my boys got several months back at a secular thing - civil air patrol - we went out for pizza afterwards and of course my boys crossed themselves during their silent blessing. Another teen noticed and remarked, "What are you CATHOLIC or something?!" My ds answered, "Well yeah!" and ate his pizza alone with his brother. No one said anything else or did anything overtly rude or anything, but it was apparent my boys weren't going to be a part of that clique. If it had been a bigger function or my boys a bit older, I would have let it slide figuring they'd make other friends there and learn something along the way, but this was a very small group - maybe 12 - 15 on a busy activity day - so being an outsider is pretty much equal to a community shunning.
ETA: please forgive the horrid spelling. I'm in bed on meds and typing on my side with one hand. talk about what a catholic hs-er won't do for a social outlet!
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juststartn
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LOL--no, Martha, the girls aren't in anything yet-that was one of the other posters...
We just got here in April, and we're still unpacking and settling in...but DH is getting antsy. The local ps here is supposedly pretty good..so of course he's said a few things. He's having a hard day today, and I'm just concerned that we're going to come to loggerheads over this whol issue (among others).
I am really particular about alot of things that my girls get involved in. I don't mind having a "homecentered" life. But DH wants us out and about. I don't mind the dc having few "real friends" their age (as opposed to acquaintances), and having a more broad group of acquaintances, based on age. But we're not on the same page on this right now...
Please pray for me...I think I am going to need them.
Rachel
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Martha
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wow that is going to be a rough patch, esp as you moved kind of out in the country - I think? Not a major city anyways?
and still unpacking? I'd just want to vegitate for a semester to catch my breath and slowly get into outside stuff later. but that's just me.
have you considered posting in your local parish bulletin your name and number as a contact for other Catholic homeschoolers? there might be some lurking about that you haven't had a chance to get to know? just a thought.. even if it's only 2 or 3 other families to get together with...
good luck.
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juststartn
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Yes, we're way out in the country--about 45 min south of Norman, @ 1/2 hr off of I35.
So we've got a good long drive to any hsing groups (this one would be 20min each way, which isn't too bad, really). I know of one hsing family, in the other parish (the one we decided against going to, for many reasons). You are right about putting a blurb in the bulletin, but I don't know whether there are any more hsers..the parish isn't THAT big, and the folks in the parish office didn't know of anyone...
SIGH
Rachel
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Martha
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post a blurb! My parish is one of the largest in oklahoma and every time someone calls to ask about hs-ing they claim they don't know anyone - but there's about 20!! 2 or 3 are RE teachers!
You'd be very surprised at how many hs-ers are flying under the radar so to speak. In your case, I'd post in all the nearby parish bulletins, just to put out a wider net.
It can't hurt, right? Even one other family that you can connect with and call when you're having a bad day can make a world of difference in my experience.
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juststartn
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Thanks for the encouragement, Martha. I think I'll look into that this week.
Rachel
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Last year we joined a Christian co-op. They did not require a SOF but it was really clear that we were the oddities of the group. The other children were very blunt about their beliefs with my children, and constantly Catholic bashed. We pulled the kids out and lost a fair bit of money. It was causing my children to question our faith in not good ways/tones. That way out weighed any benefit we might have gotten from the classes.
Do you have a YMCA anywhere near you? YMCA has made a commitment to reach out to homeschoolers. Ours has several great programs during the day. It is an 1/2 hour drive, but we decided that was worth it.
good luck!
LeeAnn
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Co-op questions
