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Lisbet
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Mary, I certainly do not care for the heavy Prot slant, don't get me wrong... BUT, I look at it kind of like choosing a curriculum or educational 'method'. KWIM? Take what I need/use and chuck the rest? I have purchased books from prot. vendors, I gleen ideas and inspirations from prot. blogs, etc... I pay for HSLDA membership because I may need the legal representation someday. (again.)
That said, we probably will not reup when/if we move out of the city.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Barbara C.
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The one website I linked mentioned checking for state homeschool organizations since homeschool laws are decided at the state level. It also talks about how HSLDA can still refuse to get involved with your issue, they may demand that you handle it the way they choose, they may not even have a lawyer in your area, they may refuse you if they do not agree with your curriculum or if you unschool.
I live in Illinois where the laws are really liberal, but there have been instances of harassment in some more rural counties. There was also an issue about a year ago of schools requesting information about curriculum and such from parents who have pulled their kids out of public school to homeschool.
I keep this information bookmarked and review it every so often for my own peace of mind. And from time to time I do review the cases at the HSLDA website, and most seem to get resolved once parents (or their attorney) demonstrate that they know the laws for that state.
Let me just state that I think HSLDA has a lot of great information at their website, and I will often link newbies there to review state laws. But I am dubious about whether their agendas are always in the best interests of all homeschoolers, like the constitutional amendment about homeschooling they've been pushing. This is why I have chosen not to join; besides I need every penny we've got.  I know lawyer fees can add up, but as another website mentioned HSLDA is not a true insurance policy. They do not guarantee services.
__________________
Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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Mary G
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Lisbet wrote:
| Mary, I certainly do not care for the heavy Prot slant, don't get me wrong... BUT, I look at it kind of like choosing a curriculum or educational 'method'. KWIM? Take what I need/use and chuck the rest? I have purchased books from prot. vendors, I gleen ideas and inspirations from prot. blogs, etc... |
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I think I might have misstated my objection -- I too will buy from Protestants if that's the best out there ... I am certainly not against that philosophy (altho I do HATE to have to tweak and wish we had more good Catholic stuff but that's probably a topic for another post!)
The point I was trying to make was that I just wish the Protestant agenda was more open and that their name would even include it ... as by calling themselves "Home School Legal Defense" they are implying (and often outwardly state) is that they protect all homeschoolers and as Laura points out, that's not true.
But ... again ... I still look at the insurance aspect and think maybe I should ... see, I often argue back and forth with myself! 
lisbet wrote:
That said, we probably will not reup when/if we move out of the city. |
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Why? Is there something else available or do you figure away from the city you're les likely to need their help?
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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folklaur
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Lisbet wrote:
| BUT, I look at it kind of like choosing a curriculum or educational 'method'. KWIM? Take what I need/use and chuck the rest? I have purchased books from prot. vendors, |
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me, too. we use Sonlight. But Sonlight makes no qualms about the fact that they are an Evangelical Christian Company.
I think the HSLDA, especially when they are considered the "voice of homeschooling at the Government level" sounds secular, as in Non-Religious, and a resource for all homeschoolers.
But it seems that in reality that is not the case.
And - that linked website is very interesting, thank you, Barbara!
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folklaur
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Mary G wrote:
But ... again ... I still look at the insurance aspect and think maybe I should ... see, I often argue back and forth with myself!
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me, too!  It was the reason I asked, as I knew I could count on you ladies to offer a wide range of opinions and advice!
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LisaR
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Barbara C. wrote:
I live in Illinois where the laws are really liberal, but there have been instances of harassment in some more rural counties. ...
but as another website mentioned HSLDA is not a true insurance policy. They do not guarantee services. |
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this is so true. I always thought if we moved to (the two rural counties) the country, we might need their help!!
I also knew a mom who was refused services by them. they were "too busy" and/or it did not fall into a category that they wanted to spend their time working on???
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Mary Chris
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cactus mouse wrote:
teachingmom wrote:
| Andrew Pudewa positively raved about the importance of HSLDA, not just for us homeschoolers, but for Christian parents throughout America. |
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But - what about NON-Christian homeschooling parents?
And....goodness....I want to make sure this comes across right, and is not misconstrued. I don't want this taken out of context, because I do think that gay marraige/gay lifestyle is worng.
BUT - If they are the Homeschool Legal Defense Association....shouldn't they be looking into the rights of ALL homeschoolers? Including those in a secular home, and including those who are gay? Or do those homeschoolers have less rights?
Or - at least they could be honest and name themselves correctly.
nervously hitting post,
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First let me say, I have never even considered joining HSLDA. We have so many attorneys in dh family, I think I'm covered. And I guess we are going into a few different trains of discussion here. Basically what Andrewa Pudewa said was that if we lose parental rights homeschooling could become illegal.
I think then it is important to make sure we as parents can chose what is best for our families. I would not want any parent, of any life style to have to sign something saying they would only teach one way. That is pretty much what I got from what Andrew was saying, that the g*y agenda is a group with a lot of power. They are working hard to make sure their agenda is getting into schools. He was saying if they get what they want, all schools, public, private or home would have to agree to teach their agenda or they would be illegal. He used the g*y agenda but it could be any agenda, I wouldn't want anyone saying I can only teach a certain way. Now I know this is a bit extreme but it really got me thinking.
I guess I, as an American, just want to make sure that we continue to enjoy the freedoms that we have here in America. Maybe HSLDA is not the right organization to give my money and time to, but I realize this is an issue I can't be an ostrich about. I need to be aware of issues or groups that are looking to take away parental rights.
I hope I explained my thoughts here.....Sorry I opened up a can of worms 
__________________
Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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Mary G
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Mary Chris wrote:
I think then it is important to make sure we as parents can chose what is best for our families. I would not want any parent, of any life style to have to sign something saying they would only teach one way. ... I wouldn't want anyone saying I can only teach a certain way. Now I know this is a bit extreme but it really got me thinking.
I guess I, as an American, just want to make sure that we continue to enjoy the freedoms that we have here in America. Maybe HSLDA is not the right organization to give my money and time to, but I realize this is an issue I can't be an ostrich about. I need to be aware of issues or groups that are looking to take away parental rights.
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Well said, well spoken, Mary Chris, especially the part I bolded from your post. I tend to want to be an ostrich altho it does expose a part of me that I shouldn't often expose
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MaryG
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folklaur
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Mary Chris wrote:
I hope I explained my thoughts here.....Sorry I opened up a can of worms |
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No, no, no! No can of worms!!! I am glad you said it, and I am glad you explained it, and any insights are welcome!!! I can't make an informed decision with only bits of information. So, thank you! It is a lot to think about and consider, and I can see the point he was trying to make.
I was using the discussion here to help flesh out my own thoughts - as they are conflicting - and some of my posts were of the "thinking out loud" variety. I am so sorry if I said anything wrong .
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folklaur
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Mary G wrote:
| I tend to want to be an ostrich altho it does expose a part of me that I shouldn't often expose |
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Oh, Mary! I was in "serious mode" and I got to this line and it was the last thing I was expecting to read. You made me snort at the computer. I am really glad I didn't have a drink in my mouth at the time!
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lapazfarm
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cactus mouse wrote:
teachingmom wrote:
| Andrew Pudewa positively raved about the importance of HSLDA, not just for us homeschoolers, but for Christian parents throughout America. |
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But - what about NON-Christian homeschooling parents?
And....goodness....I want to make sure this comes across right, and is not misconstrued. I don't want this taken out of context, because I do think that gay marraige/gay lifestyle is worng.
BUT - If they are the Homeschool Legal Defense Association....shouldn't they be looking into the rights of ALL homeschoolers? Including those in a secular home, and including those who are gay? Or do those homeschoolers have less rights?
Or - at least they could be honest and name themselves correctly.
nervously hitting post,
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Yea. This gets to me, too.
The fact is, HSLDA does NOT represent all homeschoolers, only conservative Christian ones. Yet they are allowed to present themselves as "the voice" of the homeschool community while deliberately excluding all but conservative Christian homeschoolers. I have a problem with that. Who is to say that Catholics will not be the next group they decide to exclude?
And as for the anti-gay marriage lobbying, although I can see the whole "parental rights" connection to homeschooling, I think it is tenuous at best.
Besides, HSLDA states outright that you must follow a curriculum or some other such thing in order to qualify for their help, and that excludes unschoolers right there, Christian or otherwise.
Hmmm...I thought they were all about protecting my parental rights. Now they want to tell me how I should teach my kids? What is the difference between that kind of usurpation of parental rights and that of the so-called "Gay agenda?"
If they want to protect my parental rights (but not those of my Pagan or Jewish friends) then they need to respect them themselves and protect me regardless of my chosen educational methods (or lack thereof), or my religion (or lack thereof)or my s*xual orientation. Parental rights belong to ALL parents, not just conservative Christians.
They really need to call themselves something else.
Needless to say, they wont be getting my 100 bucks a year.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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teachingmom
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I am one who views my membership with HSLDA as in insurance policy. (I know it's not a guarantee, but I'm betting on them taking my case if I ever should need them.) I definitely do not agree with them on every issue. They are against cooperating with public schools in any way for fear it would undermine homeschooling rights. I disagree. If homeschoolers were allowed to play sports in the public schools and I was the mom of an exceptional athlete, I think I'd have no trouble allowing my child to play on a public school sports team. But for their organization to be against that is not a deal breaker for me. There are also lots of alerts from them that come into my inbox that I either disagree with or do not feel are important issues for me or my family. I ignore them. So I am a member, but do not identify with everything they represent or stand for.
I am a bit confused, however, by those who have referred to their agenda as Protestant. What exactly is particularly Protestant about it? I think they represent Catholic views on moral issues too. I went to the website Barbara linked to and found this page about the HSLDA agenda. As far as I can see, the agenda is made up of a handful of issues that date back 10 years and more (not sure if they would still present an accurate picture of HSLDA in 2008) and a few current moral issues. The main moral issues the site takes issue with are gay marriage and abortion. Every faithful Catholic I know agrees with HSLDA's stance on those two issues. Am I missing something that makes their views particularly Protestant? (Of course, I realize that the group is made up of conservative Protestants. But I don't see where their issues are particularly Protestant. YKWIM?)
I guess I don't really see the problem with HSLDA's name. Maybe it would be more clear to be called the Christian Homeschool Legal Defense Association - CHSLDA - or something similiar. But there are lots of other groups who don't exactly practice full disclosure in naming themselves either. Take the ACLU - American Civil Liberties Union. Based on the name, one would assume that they would stand behind any American whose civil liberties were in jeopardy. But do they take on cases that go against their very liberal political stances? Definitely not. If they were into complete disclosure in naming, they would call themselves something like the ACLUPLA - the American Civil Liberties Union for Politically Liberal Americans.
And thanks, Mary Chris, for clarifying a bit about things said by Andrew Pudewa. (Who, by the way, is Catholic himself, although he clearly is a strong proponent of HSLDA.)
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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Lisbet
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Mary,
We joined 2 years ago after a neighbor (a school teacher) called CPS citing neglect, one of the issues was that the children were not enrolled in school. Where we live now, we live in 'fear'. We have teachers, literally on all four sides of us, plus a plethera of neighbors that dislike our family size, rowdy boys, and other things.
Moving out of the city will allievate the constant scrutiny from our neighbors that we are under.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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BrendaPeter
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Just tossing in another option here.
We're signed up with a local lawyer (a homeschooling mom) in CT. Yes, she's evangelical Christian (as far as I can tell) but she's so in touch with what's specifically going on in our state compared to HSLDA that I'm very committed to sticking with her.
We've recently had some issues in CT & her office was right on the pulse of what's happening in the state capitol minute by minute it seemed! In our state, HSLDA is quick to compromise & is fine with asking homeschoolers to jump through unnecessary hoops.
We initially signed up with her a few years ago because she differed very much with HSLDA on a particular issue. She had local homeschoolers in mind (because she is one ) but HSLDA was looking at a bigger agenda.
HSLDA has done a tremendous amount of good and I don't wish to hurt their reputation at all. Just suggesting that you look at all your options and get more info on what exactly is available in your area.
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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Mary G
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Lisbet wrote:
Mary,
We joined 2 years ago after a neighbor (a school teacher) called CPS citing neglect, one of the issues was that the children were not enrolled in school. Where we live now, we live in 'fear'. We have teachers, literally on all four sides of us, plus a plethera of neighbors that dislike our family size, rowdy boys, and other things.
Moving out of the city will allievate the constant scrutiny from our neighbors that we are under. |
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Lisa -- thanks for reminding me ... wow, that would be tough! Hoping the move is soon ....
__________________
MaryG
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Servant2theKing
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We've been members of HSLDA since 1990, the year we began homeschooling. We actually joined at the recommendation of Seton (Catholic homeschool provider). We consider our membership to be an incredibly inexpensive insurance policy. Anyone who knows the cost of retaining a lawyer for ongoing service knows that the membership fee is a mere fraction by comparison. HSLDA fought diligently to help protect homeschoolers' rights in our home state in the 90's, through two major cases, and their efforts made it much more possible for us to homeschool freely in our state. I hate to imagine the climate for homeschooling in this entire country if HSLDA did not exist.
As for representing the views and rights of a limited population of homeschoolers...perhaps we ought to consider the possiblity if a group of Catholic lawyers also represented homeschoolers rights...how would we respond if anyone expected them to represent gay rights or abortion rights? While we do not share the same basic religious views, we do share the same belief that homeschooling is a fundamental right of parents that should never face government interference or forced compromise of our moral beliefs. HSLDA has faithfully fought for the rights of homeschoolers for many years and most of us would face a much different climate for enjoying those rights if HSLDA did not exist. Until faithful Catholic lawyers step forward to provide an alternative, I see no viable option but to support those who are currently working to defend our rights to homeschool in accord with our beliefs.
I've been reading several books on the religious foundations of this nation, particularly regarding the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. While those involved in founding this nation, for the most part, were not Catholic, their belief in God and their basic moral structure seem much more in accord with Catholic social teaching than those who interpret the documents today. If Protestants and Catholics could work together in the 1700's to forge an entire government that would honor God and obey His law, then we ought to be able to work together between the Protestant and Catholic communities to assure that certain basic liberties are protected, including the rights of parents to educate their children as they deem fitting, but also the rights to protect the sanctity of marriage and human life. I do not see any conflict in supporting a group works to that protect our basic right to homeschool and other crucial moral rights when I consider the alternative of allowing the current govermental or judicial system, or special interests groups like gay activists, to dictate our rights. We cannot for a moment pretend that the efforts of such groups will NOT extend to our homeschools in time, if we do not faithfully work to protect certain inalienable rights, that come to us from God.
Thank the Lord that a group like HSLDA already exists and that they have been fighting SO diligently to protect our rights all these years, often without support from the very people they are working to defend. While they may not defend the individual rights of non Christian homeschoolers, those individuals are also being served through their efforts to keep homeschooling safe and protected throughout this country and other countries as well. I imagine that their name may be intentionally inclusive of the homeschool body as a whole because through their efforts to ensure the basic freedom to homeschool they benefit all who choose to homeschool. If they chose a more exclusive name that reflects their core beliefs they might face even more opposition and be less effective.
We have never had to use the services of HSLDA and it has been challenging to pay the memberhsip fee at times over the past 18 years, but I consider every penny to be money well spent for the sake of the basic freedoms of ALL homeschoolers. I hope we would all prayerfully consider the alternative if we refuse to support such a group. Oneday they may come for the Catholics and the homeschoolers...will we have taken a stand and said a word against the things that currently threaten basic Christian and Catholic rights and beliefs in this country? We do take a stand when we unite with those who are fighting the good fight, rather than oppose them.
This subject reminds me of the choices we are called to make in the political realm...we do not have a Catholic voice at the national level or most state and local levels, yet we must prudently vote for and support those whose leadership will be most in accord with our beliefs. These subjects are crucial ones to be exploring with our children as part of our homeschooling...the difficult subjects we face today will be even tougher when the next generation encounters them. Are we preparing a generation that understands the challenges that threaten our Catholic beliefs and morality? Are we preparing citizens of Heaven who will be able to stand against current agendas that are totally contrary to Catholic teaching?
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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teachingmom
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Well said, Servant! Thank you for articulating much of what I've been thinking in a clear way.
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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folklaur
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Okay, after playing around on the HSLDA site - under About Us - is a direct link to Patrick Henry College.
From Wiki:
Patrick Henry College was incorporated in 1998 by Michael Farris, founder of the Home School Legal Defense Association.
And as I said, under ABOUT US on the HSLDA website - there is a direct link to Patrick Henry. Not "about Patrick Henry College" - but under HSLDA's ABOUT US section.
Clicking the link from HSLDA to PHC you can easily find PHC Statement of Faith. In section 1.1, Fourth down - Letter D - reads:
"The Bible in its entirety (all 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) is the inspired Word of God, inerrant in its original autographs, and the only infallible and sufficient authority for faith and Christian living."
In section 1.2, first section:
# The Holy Scriptures. The Bible in its entirety (all 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) is the inspired word of God, inerrant in its original manuscripts, and the only infallible and sufficient authority for faith and Christian living. [II Timothy 3:16-17; II Peter 1:20-21; Hebrews 4:12; Psalm 119:11]
These are not NON-Catholic statements - They are ANTI-Catholic statements. It denies Sacred Tradition, the Papacy, and the Magestrium.
To specifically name the number of books - instead of just saying "The Bible", and to include the words "only infallible and sufficient authority" is a distinctly ANTI-Catholic stance.
Do funds from HSLDA go to PHC? According to the HSLDA website:
"Although Patrick Henry College and HSLDA are separate and distinct organizations, our board’s purpose for founding the College remains the same and HSLDA continues to support Patrick Henry College financially and structurally."
I think there is a difference in buying from/supporting vendors/businesses/organizations that are non-Catholic, and those that are ANTI-Catholic.
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lapazfarm
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Bingo.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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LisaR
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oh I love it when someone does all the hard sleuthing work for me!!
it was on my mind to play around more with the website, but you beat me to it!
I have had niggling reservations about them for years (and have puzzled over Setons connection to them), and have really thought that we would not "qualify" anyway for help because we are not enrolled/using a "program/package" school.
I am glad I have not given them money, but maybe for some it is a take what you'd like and leave the rest??
is there any fiath statement that one needs to sign to join??
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: HSLDA - pros/cons/alternatives?
