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MarilynW
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| Posted: May 06 2008 at 9:55am | IP Logged
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..in our quest for health? And I am playing devil's advocate here. This is something that has been on my mind a lot lately - when do we stop looking at all the potential problems - air quality/water quality/chemicals in food/plastics/ etc etc etc - our responsibility is to look after our bodies, our children, our planet - but when does it all become an obsession - is there a place to just stop and say - okay Lord I have to trust and accept.
I know that being ill has made me change our lifestyle in many ways - and I see the benefits to our children. And I am forever searching for healthier alternatives. But right now when so many people are struggling to simply stay in their homes - should I be spending so much money on a stainless steel drinking bottle?
Just some thoughts - interested to know what everyone thinks? Also I am tired of always having something to worry about - Made in China/phtlates (or however you say/spell them/contaminated food/nanoparticles etc etc. Whatever happened to simplicity? Do we have way too much money and time to have the luxury of being concerned about these things?
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Marilyn
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JennGM
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| Posted: May 06 2008 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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Ah, Marilyn, you are echoing my thoughts. I admit the plastic drinking bottles discussion is the only concern on my plate right now, because dh wants it to be. After I have that figured out, I'm not going to worry about it. And if it seems expensive, we're not going to do a total changeover. I eat what's on sale, I use disposable diapers, I use chemicals in my house....
There have been all sorts of discussions here and I've had the same reaction. I just don't think Jesus and the saints would be spending so much time preserving "Brother Ass" (as St. Francis referred to his body). WWJD in this situation? We're not here to live longer, but to live in preparation for Heaven, where we will live forever. The saints were rough on their bodies, to rein in the passions.
I tend to think many of these organic/environmental/social justice/chemical free are distractions from our focus on being mothers and wives, and our main goal of sanctity. Will we be questioned at the pearly gates whether or not we boycotted or lived chemical free in our family? I don't think so. While nothing is inherently wrong, I do think it should only be done so that it doesn't become the louder noise in your life, and the essentials of the family and faith are lost.
And many times I think these concerns are an offshoot of our consumeristic society which has so much and spends so much. Now that "GREEN" is in, let's find ways to spend money to become greener, which is an oxymoron.
I had posted some of these thoughts a few months back on my blog. Surprisingly, it was the biggest hit ever, even from secular boards. Why *Do* we Make it so hard?
I also think back to my short days in the convent. They put on the table what was made available to them, whether or donation or what they could afford. There was no turning away of items, even if they were hormone or chemical or sugar loaded.
I think it's a matter of conscience for each individual to find a balance in our lives.
And I do think it's a good reminder that just because there are threads here with these concerns, these are all ideals that people might want to try to achieve, but the majority of readers are mainstream America, that do some changes in areas in small ways, but not everything in all things. It's nice to be able to get support and have questions answered, but don't think we all do everything that is posted here!
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: May 06 2008 at 10:18am | IP Logged
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Change what you can and don't worry over the rest.
As far as the plastics.. the main thing I've heard is when you put hot foods or heat in the microwave or such.. they need heat.. so water bottles with cold water.. I just don't see as a big problem.. not to mention that I've just found water bottles with the long curved straw so that the kids can leave their lacrosse helmets ON and still get their water. And those were hard to find in plastic.. let alone an alternative.
I don't think the changing things to be healthier is really the problem. But fussing and worrying and letting it take over your life, whether it's something you can change or not would be.
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CrunchyMom
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MarilynW wrote:
| Do we have way too much money and time to have the luxury of being concerned about these things? |
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I guess I see a lot of it as the *responsibility* that comes with knowledge and the blessing of resources. I agree that it has the potential to become a "god" just like anything else, but I think that line is probably different for different people in different phases of their lives.
If I am blessed to be in the top 1% of the wealthy in the world (http://www.globalrichlist.com) then it seems God is going to hold me accountable for what I did with it. To those that have been given much, much is expected.
As people, we will all come to different conclusions about what that means. For some, they will conclude that if they can buy stuff cheaper from China, they can help give money to poor people. Others will decide that buying more expensive fair trade products is a greater help to those poor people trying to make a living. I tend towards the latter, but it is the motive that is important when it comes to our souls, right?
I would find it much more luxurious to simply consume at will and not concern myself with these things--so, I guess I see it as the responsibility that comes with luxury.
"I must study politics and war, that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy, natural history and naval architecture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, tapestry, and porcelain." --John Adams
Though not exactly the same thing, it reminded me of the above quote. To most of the world, it is indeed a luxury to be able to study the arts, but that doesn't mean that the study of them is superfluous or without purpose. I think the same could be said about the choices one makes in living in their given circumstance.
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MarilynW
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| Posted: May 06 2008 at 10:22am | IP Logged
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"Brother Ass"  Never heard that one!!
Just to reiterate - I am really not criticizing anyone. If you know me - you know that we try to be as healthy and organic as we can-and it has made a huge difference to my health and that of my dh and kids. But I know so many people right now who are struggling either financially with just affording food of any kind without going into debt - or with huge burdens with terminally ill children etc - that I feel guilty that I have the luxury of spending more than 2 minutes deciding on what kind of diaper to use.
But since we are on this thread..it brings me to one I do not like to face ... how far should we go to accepting any illness and suffering. At what point do we say - I am going to stop being afraid of illness, spending lots of money on vitamins etc - and just say "Lord - I am going to just accept " or even "Lord, I am going to embrace this"
Again - I do not want to offend anyone -just interested in thoughts and ideas.
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CrunchyMom
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Marilyn, I think that brings up an interesting point. My family *feels* a lot healthier with the choices we've made. I'm not sure anyone would find fault with one going to a variety of mainstream specialists, doctors, medicines, etc..., but the ideas of having to change our lifestyles in order to be healthier can be very overwhelming.
What to do when that isn't enough either is tough! I can't imagine how hard it must be to face the question you have!
I also wanted to point out that many of these things only become consuming in the beginning when one is faced with a lot of big changes at once. Cloth diapering, buying and avoiding certain foods, cleaning, not using plastic, etc... have all become matters of habit.
We haven't shopped at Walmart or Target in years now, and it isn't an inconvenience or something we even think about much, we just don't do it. I go through a roll of paper towels in three months as opposed to the week or two I once did--and I don't miss them. It was something I thought about when I first decided to buy extra dishtowels, though.
So, I think when one is bombarded with a lot of people posting about making these various changes on their blogs, etc... and you still have ALL of them to make, it seems obsessive. However, its taken us YEARS to gradually introduce so many things and have them just feel natural instead of consuming.
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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MarilynW
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CrunchyMom wrote:
So, I think when one is bombarded with a lot of people posting about making these various changes on their blogs, etc... and you still have ALL of them to make, it seems obsessive. However, its taken us YEARS to gradually introduce so many things and have them just feel natural instead of consuming. |
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I agree - we have made our changes over the last 5 or 6 years - and reached a good compromise on things like organic/natural food, no chemicals in our house (one child with chemical sensitivities), low VOC paint, healthy cosmetics etc. But..I feel of late that there are more and more things that are coming to light and causing fear... and I am trying to figure out where I need to draw the line with necessary worrying and making changes - and where I have to stop and channel my energy into maybe more important things.
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folklaur
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http://www.globalrichlist.com is kind of misleading, though, isn't it? I mean, yes, that is on a global scale. But what we have made annually during most of our marriage has been less - MUCH less - than 35K a year. I know lots of people who have no idea how we could manage on that, but we did. But living in the US and making 35K a year is a lot different than living other places and making the same amount (even within the US the differences can be staggering - I mean the cost of living in say San Diego or NYC compared to other places is way different.) The pay increase we got with dh's new job means we will be making more than we ever have, (but still less than many of the homeschooling families I know). One of the houses we looked at to rent had 5 bedrooms - I loved it - but my 18 dd was totally put off by that. She felt that a house that big (and it wasn't superhuge - about 2700 sf) was an utter extravagance, and couldn't believe we would even consider it. Was she right? We only have three children so far, though we hope to adopt, and I had visions of a guest room for my mom and a schoolroom.
I know my Mom often laughs when she hears me mention the latest boycott or health concern. I feel she may be too flippant about some of it. She feels "we" have way too much time on our hands if we are worrying about things like this so often. She feels the internet is a major problem in this area, as it tends to make it so much easier to stir up emotions for this issue or that issue, etc...
hummmm....lots to think about....I know I wouldn't even have the nerve to ask DH about the SS bottles...he would never go for it....and he is a big proponent of eating organically and locally.......
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LLMom
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I haven't read all of the replies but I have finally come to the conclusion that I am not going to worry so much about the body (although I do some things) as much as the soul. It won't matter one bit if I invest all of this time and energy in searching for better this, quality this and neglect the spiritual training of my family. (not saying anyone here is doing that) I would rather do what I can, trust in God and spend my time praying and training/educating my dc. Ginny Seuffert once said that our dc need a good Catholic education more than they need to eat hand-ground whole wheat bread. If you can do all of these things without it stressing you and taking too much time, go for it. I can't so I have to limit myself.
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CrunchyMom
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I suppose there are also differing opinions on what affects the soul. I think that the fact that there are so many people here who subscribe to the philosophies of Montessori and Waldorf means you will have a lot of people who place emphasis on their environment *because* they believe in the spiritual repercussions--not because they don't makes souls a priority.
I guess, too, a lot of my rationalization for things come down to my spiritual perspectives. Since the majority of ladies here prioritize their faith, its pretty hard to separate any decision from that, ime.
Also, I'm not accusing anyone else of being obsessive, but which is moreso? Worrying about germs so you use chemicals to clean or worrying about chemicals so you live with extra germs? Worrying about diseases so you use vaccinations and antibiotics or worrying about the medicine so you accept the risk of disease? Its pretty hard not to worry regardless of which decision one makes.
It does seem hard to find where the balance God intended for us lies!
ETA:  I'll try and sit on my hands for a while. This is something I have thought about a lot, but I really am super interested in what others have to say!
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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LLMom
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Lindsay,
I know what you mean about some people believing that the environment affects the soul. I just really think for *me* it is wasting time to obsess over things like will this or that give me cancer (I use to be really bad) when God can and does use these sufferings for our sanctification. Now I don't believe that lets me off the hook but I found I became so afraid of getting certain diseases and dying when those can actually bring us closer to God. I think we have to do our best (without stressing out) and then leave the rest in God's hands.
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SusanJ
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This is an interesting discussion. I think you would want to be careful, when looking for balance in your own life, not to neglect the body too much. After all, we do believe in the resurrection of the body. Part of what drew me to the Catholic church was the incarnation--the bodily nature of our faith. I do think we are all called to accept suffering and, clearly, some of the saints were called to mortify their bodies in particular ways. I don't think that care of the body and accepting suffering are mutually exclusive and I think that these things look different for everyone. I think the devil likes to attack us in our soft spots, too. If you are a hypochondriac germophobe then you might need to watch out for enticements to spend hours online or lots of money following health fads. I am plagued with indecisiveness in general. When I was first researching cloth diapers for our first baby my husband came up to me during one of my marathon internet sessions and said, "I don't care what you do, but you just need to decide." I had reached a point where continuing to look for the best/cheapest/simplest/whatever was less important than just making a decision and moving on with my life. I've come to the same realization with shopping for kids clothes. It could take me weeks all year if I wanted it to but I've finally just picked a store that offers decent quality at decent prices with cheap shipping and its not ALL made in China and I know how the sizes run and I just place an order when I need something.
I'm sort of rambling . . . I guess I'm sort of getting to saying that I agree with Lindsay that most of these little questions aren't obsessive for us once I get over it and just make a decision. I no longer invest any mental energy, or money, in cloth diapers. In my life, when I'm hit with a new change or idea or trend I try to gauge what a reasonable amount of research is in proportion to how much it would affect my life and then make a decision.
Susan
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MarilynW
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LLMom wrote:
I know what you mean about some people believing that the environment affects the soul. I just really think for *me* it is wasting time to obsess over things like will this or that give me cancer (I use to be really bad) when God can and does use these sufferings for our sanctification. Now I don't believe that lets me off the hook but I found I became so afraid of getting certain diseases and dying when those can actually bring us closer to God. I think we have to do our best (without stressing out) and then leave the rest in God's hands. |
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I love this - as I wrote in my post about suffering, I love the quote on the Redemptive Suffering Cd where Bill Keimig says that if we knew the value of suffering, we would not just accept it, we would ask for it.
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Lisbet
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Quote:
if we knew the value of suffering, we would not just accept it, we would ask for it.
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I am so lame. I ask for my suffering to be taken away...
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MarilynW
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| Posted: May 06 2008 at 5:32pm | IP Logged
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Lisbet wrote:
Quote:
if we knew the value of suffering, we would not just accept it, we would ask for it.
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I am so lame. I ask for my suffering to be taken away... |
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Lisa - so do I. I am trying to move towards simply accepting - and this is hard enough. I am definitely not yet at the "asking for suffering" stage
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Willa
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SusanJ wrote:
In my life, when I'm hit with a new change or idea or trend I try to gauge what a reasonable amount of research is in proportion to how much it would affect my life and then make a decision.
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I like that.
I'm probably on the more casual side of these things. I am aware that this can become a form of presumption.
On the other hand, I am aware that too much concern about every single new health thing can become a kind of mistrust issue.
For that reason I think it makes sense to examine one's motives for being more relaxed or more concerned. There is sort of a discipline in staying vigilant but peaceful. It's something to strive for anyway.
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juststartn
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I am nowhere near asking for it. I am learning to take what comes (which is touch and go, as you can well imagine). Even the little things (got to exercise those muscles, or they simply don't get stronger!).
As far as how much is too much in this regard....I think there is a line...for some, it is finer than others, I believe....
Personally, things like the plastics...well, if I'm in the market for some new dishware/glassware, then I don't buy plastic ones. I don't have the money to overhaul everything.
Generally speaking, while I am 'concerned' w/regards to our enviroment, and our health (mostly because a-our world and our bodies are a gift from God, and b-we are called to be good stewards of those gifts), I don't over-fixate on it. I do the best I can, with the money, the time, and the information that I have access to....
Rachel
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JennGM
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I've enjoyed mulling over this question today, Marilyn.
About the suffering aspect, I had a few thoughts. I guess I look at accepting the suffering, but I do look for help medically and naturally. Even Jesus dreaded the suffering at the Agony in the Garden, asking the cup to be taken away if it was God's Will. I surely don't ask for it, but I ask for the grace to accept what I do get sent, because even the smallest things shakes my world.
Willa wrote:
SusanJ wrote:
In my life, when I'm hit with a new change or idea or trend I try to gauge what a reasonable amount of research is in proportion to how much it would affect my life and then make a decision.
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I like that.
I'm probably on the more casual side of these things. I am aware that this can become a form of presumption.
On the other hand, I am aware that too much concern about every single new health thing can become a kind of mistrust issue.
For that reason I think it makes sense to examine one's motives for being more relaxed or more concerned. There is sort of a discipline in staying vigilant but peaceful. It's something to strive for anyway. |
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Amen to both of you, especially "every single new health thing can become a kind of mistrust issue."
I know I don't trust enough. Proof is if I let these things shake me up with fear.
As someone above said the Internet has not helped with spreading these types of concerns around. Our world is getting smaller, and huge global issues are heavy weights on our shoulders. Women take on these worries so easily, it's just in our nature. And so sometimes I see these concerns as a control issue. It's an effort to have some control in one's life in these larger almost uncontrollable issues.
There's a lot of "what ifs" out there. Cancer causes are being found every day, and yet, there are those that control all the outside factors and still get cancer. Just shows that God (and genetics ) are in control.
I need to remind myself as the big problems start knocking on my door, I need get little, like St. Therese, and Have Confidence In God. It's not like I won't do anything, but I move more slowly, like Willa said.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Stephanie_Q
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Thanks for this discussion. I've been asking these questions myself because I was beginning to feel overwhelmed with all the information out there. Like Susan, I tend to take a topic and look for "the best/cheapest/simplest/whatever..." I appreciate this comment by Willa: "There is sort of a discipline in staying vigilant but peaceful."
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juststartn
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Here's a link to an interesting thread (on another Catholic forum) on suffering...
http://forums.catholic-convert.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49719
Thought of this thread as soon as I read the first post there...
Rachel
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: When is enough enough??!!!!!
