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folklaur
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged
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I read the thread with discontent about the "pouch schooling" comment in Horton, and I read another comment on another forum recently, and I got to thinking.
First, if the movie had made negative comments about public schooling - would we have noticed - or cared? My guess, if I am honest, is probably not. Because in the back of my mind, those negative things that can be said about PS, well, they're "true." (My oldest dd18 was the one who pointed this thought out to me). But are they true really? Sometimes.
But, if I am also really honest, I have to say that I have met many many homeschooling families with an idea similar to "keeping joey in the pouch."
We, as homeschoolers, like to think of ourselves as "out of the box thinkers" - going against the norm.
But are we really?
A prominent theme in the homeschool community as a whole often seems to be preservation of very conservative views and worldviews. There certainly are "out of the box" thinkers that homeschool, but are they the exception that proves the rule?
Does homeschooling provide a way to make sure the kids' brains stay in the box the parents think best?
I would love to hear other thoughts on this...it is just bopping around in my brain today...
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CAgirl4God
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I know that we homeschool to keep our kids in our box... lol
and mostly to keep them out of the box of general society. what they learn from others.. whether it be kids, people, ps, private school, extended family etc, isn't what we want them surrounded by most of the time.
our kids aren't in a Catholic ghetto, by any means... we are military and have lived in housing at each station. they play with the neighborhood kids, they are in local activities, they are out in the world here...
but we do try to keep the insulated as opposed to isolated.
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:11pm | IP Logged
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Oh, my! I had never heard this term before it was mentioned on the other thread, and I started a new thread because I found that term a offensive, and didn't want it to be confused with what I was asking. I had NO intention of implying that at all, and I ask that we refrain from using it.
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CAgirl4God
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:14pm | IP Logged
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sorry.....
I too read it in the other thread and didn't agree with it.. sorry
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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CAgirl4God wrote:
but we do try to keep the insulated as opposed to isolated.
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I like this.
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
Does homeschooling provide a way to make sure the kids' brains stay in the box the parents think best?
I would love to hear other thoughts on this...it is just bopping around in my brain today... |
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Laura, this is the kind of bopping that my brain does daily!!however, I don;t have the time or mental energy to be present to my kids AND give the kind of clear
response that is now
all jumbled in my head.
It might not be the kind of response most want to hear anyway.
From my own personal experience (which I gather is different than some here at 4 real)I've seen your above quote to be very true.
I suppose the question is: is the box the parents want their kids to be in the right one? and /or is the box THE only or THE Best?
Our lives were turned on end gradually over the years. As we learned of many(now just this past week, one more) Catholic Homeschoolers divorcing, turning straight from Providentialism to Sterilization, P*rn addiction/affairs IRL and virtual,alcohol abuse and teens gone wild.
It got personal when two of my children, on separate occasions , were exposed to unspeakable things, by two different families who were "pouch schoolers".
When we notified another pouch schooler family whose child would have also be affected we were told to "let it go to protect homeschoolers and that "boys will be boys" HUH????
Yes, I think for every stereotype "They" have about us homeschoolers, "we" might have stereotypes about schooled kids and families who do not homeschool.
I must admit, dh and I searched back and realized that over the years we had excused alot from homeschoolers, and yet if that same child/family had been in school, we could have blamed it ALL on the school.
So now I have my oldest in a very Large (at least to us, about 960 kids) Catholic school.
I am SO glad that I did not listen to the pouch schoolers. The myths that they had told me about the school were just that- myths. But when I try to tell them of the good, they mumble hrmph and really don't believe me, or think that JUST BECAUSE we are having an amazingly awesome school experience, we are out to "undermine" homeschooling.
I've even gotten that in PM's here.
Everyone's experience is so different, I can only change my own. We've had to get Police/Parish Priest involvement with some of these serious issues, and it looks like we have taken the "school families" side of things. We can't look at anything in that way anymore, but each individual family and child, and also at our individual family and our children.
We've veered far away from labels. I LOVE it when people don't know we homeschool. kind of like Elizabeth changing her blog to "in the heart of my home" I do not want my family or kids to be judged by how they happen to be educated, but just by who we are. AND we have learned the hard way to look at others around us by who they are created in the Image of God, not by where they do or do not go to school.
not sure if this is even remotely what you meant by the box.
and I am the first to admit we ARE in a unique situation with Dh's job. Just as a prominent Catholic Homeschooling Counselor might see a larger population of moms with severe depression issues just by nature of his job (that others don' know about). I know we are made painfully aware of the suffering and sin that homeschooling families are experiencing due to dh's job.
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
CAgirl4God wrote:
but we do try to keep the insulated as opposed to isolated.
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I like this. |
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I guess that is it in a nutshell. My kids ended up NOT nearly as insulated as we had wanted/hoped. And I take full responsibility for assuming that most every homeschooler wanted the same kind of insulation I did.
Example- one family might INSIST on total and very strict modesty, in clothes, and yet allow their kids to play "M" video games. another family might be daily Mass goers and insist on TLM/veiling only, and yet "allow" their teens to go on a co-ed overnight camp out that the teens plan and execute on their own. (basically no adult supervision)
Also, as we entered the teen years we saw a lot of concessions made to provide (what to dh and myself were not necessary "things") for homeschooled teens because "after all, we are saying "no" to so much just by continuing to homeschool them".......
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:28pm | IP Logged
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re: Catholic Ghetto
I really don't "get" this term. beacause when I think of the uber Catholic Homeschoolers, or pouch schoolers or whatever is intended there, I think of them living VERY isolated and rural type lives, whearas Ghetto implies to me the sharing of the clotheline over the back fence, and low income Catholics living in VERY close proximity to other low income Catholics (that would be us!!  )
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
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Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 12:45pm | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
We've veered far away from labels. I LOVE it when people don't know we homeschool. kind of like Elizabeth changing her blog to "in the heart of my home" I do not want my family or kids to be judged by how they happen to be educated, but just by who we are. AND we have learned the hard way to look at others around us by who they are created in the Image of God, not by where they do or do not go to school.
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ok, here is an analogy. sometimes I think that Catholic homeschoolers are so very "patriotic" about homeschooling that the homeschooling almost "defines" them more than anything else. Even know a super patriotic American who is also Christian? kwim??
Dh always tells the kids "we are Catholics first, and Americans second "
and in our quest to become better Catholics, we have
grown much more open to the catholic (universal) Church and her families......and have been humbled and pleasantly surprised....
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dh Tim '92
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Philothea
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I don't think "Catholic ghetto" is inherently offensive; I know what she meant:
Main Entry: ghet·to
Pronunciation: \ˈge-(ˌ)tō\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural ghettos also ghettoes
Etymology:
Italian, from Venetian dialect ghèto island where Jews were forced to live, literally, foundry (located on the island), from ghetàr to cast, from Latin jactare to throw — more at jet
Date: 1611
1: a quarter of a city in which Jews were formerly required to live
2: a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure
3: a) an isolated group <a geriatric ghetto>
b) a situation that resembles a ghetto especially in conferring inferior status or limiting opportunity <the pink-collar ghetto>
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Lisbet
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My thoughts, well, for some reason it has become perfectly acceptable, preferable even, to allow "joey out the pouch" waaaayyyyy too early. My oldest is only 13, so yep, I pouch school. (sometimes quite literally!  )
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LisaR
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Philothea wrote:
2: a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure
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yep, than I literally live in one. dosen't bother me a bit.
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dh Tim '92
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folklaur
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Philothea wrote:
I don't think "Catholic ghetto" is inherently offensive; I know what she meant
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regardless, that was not really the focus of my questions & thoughts. So, that is why I wanted to be sure to be clear that it wasn't, and why I asked for refrain, if possible.
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 02 2008 at 1:16pm | IP Logged
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is your question how are we defined as homeschoolers? and how do we define those who do not?
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dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
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Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
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folklaur
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| Posted: April 03 2008 at 10:05am | IP Logged
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LisaR wrote:
| is your question how are we defined as homeschoolers? and how do we define those who do not? |
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Yes. ...
But also - it seems to me so often that homeschoolers (I am not talking Catholic homeschoolers, just hsers in general) have this idea of being so....different? counter cultural, maybe?
But even most of the PS/private schooled families I know have certain ideals....it isn't all the cess-pit that it if often made out to be...
and then..related to these thoughts...I wonder if homeschooling is a control issue. And is that good/bad...and when do we start to let go, at what age do let them make their own decisions? (Or is it when we are sure they will decide they way we want them too?)
Anyway...nevermind... ...as I said, just thoughts bopping around in my head....I guess this is what happens when I have to spend the day packing and no DH to talk to...
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 03 2008 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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cactus mouse wrote:
and then..related to these thoughts...I wonder if homeschooling is a control issue. |
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YES YES YES!!! I 100% think it is. I have had a few dfriends IRL and we mull over and over- WHY do the Protestant Homeschooling co-ops seem to thrive with NO in fighting, control issues, etc. WHY do the Catholic groups seem to bicker and each want their own way, etc., etc???
I think it is because the Protestants honestly have NO structure provided for them (usually, school wise) and they band together to make something workable and beautiful.
Most Catholic Homeschoolers are bucking the structure or system, so to speak that has already be provided for them. (in the form of Catholic schools). So, dh and I joke that Catholic homeschoolers are the by far strongest willed of the bunch, and very control and individualistic orientated. Those Protestant homeschoolers, man, they are like little worker bees
probably not what you meant by "control" at all, but this is what popped into my little brain.
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dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
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Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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cactus mouse wrote:
And is that good/bad...and when do we start to let go, at what age do let them make their own decisions? (Or is it when we are sure they will decide they way we want them too?)
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but percentage/statistic wise, each adult child , or teen or whatever, homeschooled or not, seem to equally "rebel" or whatever.
so then is it more peace of mind for US (as parents) if we homeschool? because at least we THINK we have more control???
One aside is that this is the first year ever I have had a child in school. The school kids surprised me with being more "mature" in a different way than I thought.
They line up their own carpools, figure out their own schedules, make their own calls about drivers ed, job opportunities, etc. Where at least around here, the MOMS who homeschool tend to call to register their child for drivers ed, or the MOMS coordinate the carpools, etc.
Yes, it is a lack of control for me, but boy, my ds has grown up fast in a way I am proud of. t, w, th at 5am he is up, and out the door by 5:30, for sports conditioning and then daily Mass before school. I don't have to get up, or do a thing, (except the every 5th time it is our turn to drive) These 14 y/o boys figured out the "plan" on their own!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
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Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Willa
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cactus mouse wrote:
A prominent theme in the homeschool community as a whole often seems to be preservation of very conservative views and worldviews. There certainly are "out of the box" thinkers that homeschool, but are they the exception that proves the rule?
Does homeschooling provide a way to make sure the kids' brains stay in the box the parents think best?
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Perhaps it is a theme, but I hadn't noticed. I tend to hang around with the out-of-the-box types, though. Perhaps it has something to do with where a family lives ? In our area, there are hardly any homeschoolers at all, and the ones that are here are not really doing anything close to "pouch-schooling".
I always think "Be not afraid". I did not start homeschooling to control my kids, but to give them a bit of extra space to grow freely, without too many worldly constraints too soon. So much of what goes on in public schooling seems coercive and controlling to me, so I did not want to transfer that mentality to our home.
It also occurs to me that what the world thinks of as "pouch-schooling" is only the normal protection that our culture has traditionally given our children. Some people might think I'm being over-protective simply because I keep the kids a bit out of the mainstream of culture. This is what I think of as "allowing kids to grow freely" because I think that too much peer influence too soon and too unsupervised leads to various types of coping mechanisms that aren't altogether healthy.
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
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CKwasniewski
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I think Willa is right on.
If you want to talk about "control" then consider the war on minds that is happening with all of the virtual reality stuff pushed at kids from birth on! And fashion, news coverage, etc. etc.
It's an illusion to think "I'm so different, I'm so individual" when you are eating the same mass-produced food, wearing the same mass-produced clothes, and watching/listening the same mass-produced media & music as everybody else. All of which is controlled by a few powerful mega-companies.
If you have questions about Public School as mind control, read "Underground history" by Gatto. He connects it to pre-Nazi Germany pretty clearly.
As far as problems with homeschooler's go--let's face it, it's a fallen world and there are going to be problems no matter what. Just because some hs'ers have problems doesn't mean that everybody is a control freak.
ck
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insegnante
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Willa wrote:
| It also occurs to me that what the world thinks of as "pouch-schooling" is only the normal protection that our culture has traditionally given our children. Some people might think I'm being over-protective simply because I keep the kids a bit out of the mainstream of culture. This is what I think of as "allowing kids to grow freely" because I think that too much peer influence too soon and too unsupervised leads to various types of coping mechanisms that aren't altogether healthy. |
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Thanks for saying so much better what I tried to say in a long response I deleted before posting the other day.
I do wonder if I may sometimes (or often) err on the side of too much control and too much resistance to what are actually reasonable situations that just aren't quite as I would have arranged them, because I have become used to having to be so watchful about what my kids are exposed to and saying no to a lot of things other people seem to think are reasonable.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: "pouch schooling"/out-of-the-box thoughts
