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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: April 04 2008 at 5:08pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Angie, for a thorough and comprehensive explanation.
I know you did speak plainly, Angie. 
I'll get over any disappointment---time heals---and we must respect one another's choices and ability to discern these things; after all we are free agents in Christ, aren't we?
I certainly pray, as I'm sure ALL of you do, that I was not a cause for offense and/or scandal through speaking openly from the heart on various issues.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Rebecca
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| Posted: April 05 2008 at 12:46am | IP Logged
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donnalynn wrote:
| Please pray for me. I really struggled with whether to stay after that discussion....Please, please pray for me... |
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Donna, You are a blessing to this board.  Please don't fret or worry. I wanted to step in and let you to know that the waldorf thread that has been mentioned a few times in this thread is not the same waldorf conversation that you were a part of. There is certainly not one person or any group of people who has made anyone feel unwelcome here.
The persons who have decided to no longer spend time here have done so for their own reasons, not at the prompting or suggestion of anyone else. While some members here might miss certain people who no longer frequent the boards, we have to move ahead and recognize that they have done the same in their own way. A few of the women who are no longer visiting regularly here are pursuing careers as authors which can be a time consuming profession as I understand.
The 4real board and the CCM group before it have been instrumental in my growth as a Catholic wife and mother. While I am unable to visit as often as I did in the past, I think the new members as well as the large number of older (as in years spent on the forum, not in years of age :) members here are such a special mix of women. There is a chemistry and love here that cannot be replaced or duplicated.
Fondly,
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Matilda
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The comments that I first made were based on perceptions and feelings and opinions. Some people would argue that I was wrong to speak them out loud, but I also know that there are many others here who agreed that they had perceived the same things. We have all been encouraged to be honest and forthright in our opinions, and to express them in this thread. Some people, who assumed that I was talking about them personally have now sent negative emails to my family email account intimating that I was directing my words at them and suggesting that I may be guilty of "slander", "detraction", "spreading false rumors", and "causing injury to the Body of Christ".
At the heart of this problem is what Molly has pointed out: negative connotations. I disagree with your friend, Molly; there is no negative connotation definitively attached to the word "motives"; that would require the use of a modifier like "insidious" or "evil". I think part of the problem with online discussions is the readiness of some to impute negative connotations where none are meant.
Sadly, though, I feel compelled to say that in these unpleasant correspondences, some people's suspicions were confirmed. These women have said that there were hurt feelings, painful encounters, ugliness, tones attributed to others and myself, and shocking information that they could reveal to me that were the cause of their leaving 4Real. More than one also implicated people behind the scenes here as the ones who made known their problematic presence and encouraged this separation. These are their words, not mine and they were offered to me, a virtual stranger who has only had the slightest of communication with them. So, while it might be preferable to assume that everybody left in goodwill, these women have voluntarily confirmed to me otherwise in their specific cases.
These women whose identity I will not reveal publicly have chosen to berate me with this information outside of the forum in which I posted openly. Let me point out that emails are not considered private communications and that I had no personal relationship with any of these women.
We are allowed to question someone's intentions especially when entering into an environment that requires sharing with them. We are allowed to use prudence in making decisions regarding our choice to associate with others. We should also be allowed to have our words reads without assuming negative connotations and malicious intent although I understand how difficult this can be regarding subjects that are near and dear to a woman's heart.
As for my part in this, I am not here to point the finger or blame anyone but I am by nature a skeptical person. I like to evaluate and reevaluate my involvement with different people/groups/businesses only because I too, can be easily sucked in. I also think everyone has been charitable and I have enjoyed this engaging discussion, not the resulting outside communications but I also acknowledge that based on their chosen interpretation of my words coupled with the fact that they chose to take them personally, these women felt extremely offended.
I believe with all of my heart that there are always two sides to every story and that both sides can believe they are in the right. My original comments, poorly expressed though they may have been, were simply my way of explaining how I chose to see the world around me, the fruits of so many labors and picked a path to follow in hopes that it would help me and my family on our journey to our ultimate goal.
__________________
Charlotte (Matilda)
Mom to four (11 , 10, 9 & 5 ) an even split for now
with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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LisaR
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| Posted: April 05 2008 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
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are we "owed" an explanation when another seemingly similar group begins? are we "owed" notification that this is occuring, and why?
I think the charitable thing to do would have been to let everyone know in a public venue in some sort- but maybe this was accomplished by way of blog and the yahoo group.
I wish it would have been announced here in a way other than Donna's initial post,(which was a bit of a shocker to many) but don't know if it really matters.
Case in point: I was a part of a new Catholic Cooperative (a spin off of a larger,local Catholic homeschooling group/e group) this year. Before it even began, I had serious doubts about it and it went poorly from week one (for many of us, but I will say this is about how it affected my family).
In the midst of this, a new cooperative opportunity literally dropped in my lap. I THOUGHT the right thing to do was to "get the word out" equally and quickly to everyone, (I posted about the new group on the egroup, personally called everyone involved, etc) so that they did not feel at all like I was in competition in any way, or hiding something, etc.
I was VERY communicative and open in explaining how this new cooperative was like Irish Step, and the old one was like Ballet, but that can't mean we aren't all still dancers!!
however, I got nasty emails, phone calls, public reprimands that I was "tearing up the group" - that to preserve homeschooling we needed to ALL be in the same co-op or else, others demanding information, wanting meeting times lists of information and others involved even though they had no real interest in joining, just nosy-ness.
I wish, since it has gone this far, that the people Matilda is refering to, would either have the courage to let us all know what they are saying privately to her, or perhaps it should not have been brought to all of our attention.
Change is always difficult, and often times painful. For some publically say "I am leaving in goodwill" but then in emails and to a few others say the opposite does not allow healing or understanding to occur.
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Willa
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Earlier in the thread, Anne mentioned her mother's beautiful habit of praying for people and situations that were troubling her. She said that it often led to wonderful results that she couldn't have predicted at the time.
Our Blessed Mother most likely did the same thing and if we follow her example, we cannot go wrong.
Here is St Francis's prayer for peace:
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Matilda mentioned that there are always two sides to every story, and this is so very true. In that kind of circumstance, it can be difficult to really "hear" both sides and still respect and protect privacy. It is better to practice silence in these cases.
Also, we should keep our focus on matters related to our board, rather than make comparisons with Family Centered Learning or any of the other Catholic homeschool boards out there (I know there are several and I know they benefit many people, and that is a very good thing!).
Our customary pause to celebrate the Lord's Day gives us a good opportunity to pray and look for the most charitable way to think of this situation, and to consider ways in which all of us here can share and learn more about practicing Real Learning in our homes.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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LucyP
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As a new member I hesitate to share my feelings on this discussion. I've been reading and thinking and talking to dh and, well I feel I might as well get it off my chest.
It almost feels as if to some posters, new members spoil things and change things. And as a new member, that makes me feel that I have spoiled things and changed things. Obviously, if I have caused anyone to feel uncomfortable or sad about newer members I am very sorry. This is the first time I have been on the "new member" side of things - previously I was on a board for a long time and newer members suddenly joined in what felt like a mass movement and it did feel "odd" for a while, as older conversations were re-hashed, new alliances made etc.
Overall I have felt welcomed here, but I know as a new Catholic, a socially inept person, and someone who is struggling with many areas of life as well as trying to work out what on earth will work as far as home education for our son, that I have likely posted too much and been clumsy in what I have said. I think the fact that this has been my nice safe welcoming coffee morning kind of place to come (and I have no friends in real life although I am trying to make them!) makes feeling that newer members have spoiled things a shock and a sadness.
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MaryM
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LucyP wrote:
| It almost feels as if to some posters, new members spoil things and change things. And as a new member, that makes me feel that I have spoiled things and changed things. |
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Oh dear - please, I want to reassure all newer members (both those lurking and those posting) that you are most welcome and we enjoy your company. We love having you here and getting to know you. I'm always amazed as our numbers grow what wonderful women are joining and finding this a place they want to visit regularly. I truly think I speak for all "old" members, and particularly members who have been posting here in this discussion, when I say that this conversation is in no way intimating that new members have spoiled things. I don't believe anyone feels that at all. This thread has only expressed some sadness at missing individuals who have been a presence in the past. It comes from a wish to have the best of both worlds, adding and getting to know new members and benfitting from their presence while not having others be less active. But as we have discussed, support communities both on-line and in real life are transient. There is coming and going and that is inevitable.
Let us focus on the here and now. People choose to be here because it meets a need for them at the present time - whether it be community building, resource sharing, idea gathering, inspiration, prayer support, faith support, fun & laughter, whatever. What is it that brings us back to the boards (each day, each week)? What benefits are we receiving from being present here? Maybe that is something that we can all think about regarding our indivdual decision to be here. It seems that those who are here at this present time were meant to be here with each other for a reason. Sounds like a new thread that might help us get to know each other even better.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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aussieannie
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 4:42am | IP Logged
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Oh no Lucy, there is nothing to apologise for and your presence here is greatly valued as I am sure so many of us are following your beautiful (sometimes rocky) journey into the Church.
I am not one of the original ladies of this forum but nor am I new but I can say with great confidence that new members are always an appreciated presence on the forum.
It was great way you had of describing the board as a, “coffee morning kind of place” – I agree! - and the lament is many are missing some of the old regulars who usually shared that cuppa but at the same time it is delightful to regularly meet new & old friends round the table and that is why I continue to love & appreciate this place more each day.
When I first read your posting, I understood your wonderings but thought, “Oh you mustn’t think that!” I think the older members here, more than anyone, value those words over at Introduction of, “Hi, I’m .....and I’m new here...” I know I do, ‘cause that was me once!
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Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
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aussieannie
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Writing together there Mary! I love what you said, coincidently I mentioned 'what brings me back each day' so I think it's a great thread to start since those sort of thoughts are going through my mind at present...
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Under Her Starry Mantle
Spiritual Motherhood for Priests
Blessed with 3 boys & 3 girls!
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Paula in MN
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Hey, Lucy, I'm not a moderator, but I want to let you know this board is AWESOME! I'm not one of the "oldies but goodies", and I'm not a newbie, but this topic truly isn't about new members. We are glad you are here!
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Paula
A Catholic Harvest
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amyable
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I certainly hope a blog post I did a few days ago regarding this board didn't offend any new members... I could see how someone *might* read it that way if they were wont to, but I was only lamenting the *loss* of some of my favorite old members, not saying in ANY way that new people ruined it.
Please forgive me if my poor choice of words has hurt any feelings.
And on the whole topic of this thread, I agree that we can't know what is going on behind the scenes of everyone's decisions. I've been privvy to thoughts from several different sides, and I know that circumstances can make things *seem* one way when in fact they are something else.
HUGS to everyone having difficulty with all this.
__________________
Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Loren
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I haven't read the entire thread here, but I wanted to chime in anyway. 
I joined this board several years ago, but only asked a few questions and didn't spend a lot of time here. I was already a member of a homeschool forum and it was a lot busier and had conversations that I enjoyed. This board was dinky and slow and nothing interesting happened over here. At least that was my perception.
I did come back a few times, just to get a Catholic perspective on things. The members here were always gracious to me and shared their insights without concern over the fact that I just popped in once every year or so to ask what to do. I did notice that the look of the board changed, but never paid attention to the traffic.
Now I am at a very different place in my homeschooling journey. I am pulling back from the other board and spending more time here. I recognize some names from the time I started years ago and some names from other fora I visit.
My impression now is that this board is more vibrant and lively than it was when I joined. There are more "fun" threads and more input on serious threads. I am still soaking up the wisdom and experience of these women, but now I am also participating and trying to share a little bit of myself with others.
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stefoodie
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Loren wrote:
Now I am at a very different place in my homeschooling journey. I am pulling back from the other board and spending more time here. I recognize some names from the time I started years ago and some names from other fora I visit. |
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This part of your post I can very much relate to. I've been on and off 70+ e-lists and fora since starting to homeschool ~9 years ago. Each list/forum has "fed me" (and, I'd like to think I was able to contribute at least a little as well) at different stages in our homeschooling journey, depending on the need.
But this forum is where I've been the longest and I guess have the most relationships. So I tend to stay here for the most part. There was a time, even until very recently, when I wanted to be on almost every forum, every e-list, etc. so I don't "miss out" on anything.
Right now I want things clearer, simpler, and I've severely cut down on my online groups. "Less is more" is my motto these days. It may change again, who knows, though right now I'm perfectly happy and content just to be here with all of you :).
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stef
mom to five
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Willa
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MaryM wrote:
| Oh dear - please, I want to reassure all newer members (both those lurking and those posting) that you are most welcome and we enjoy your company. We love having you here and getting to know you. .... truly think I speak for all "old" members, and particularly members who have been posting here in this discussion, when I say that this conversation is in no way intimating that new members have spoiled things. I don't believe anyone feels that at all. |
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Yes, Mary certainly speaks for me. I am one of the "old" members who was on CCM from the founding month and then moved over here to Real Learning in its founding month. Both times, it was so wonderful to have a place where we could find kindred spirits and have conversations that it would be difficult to have anywhere else without a lot of background explanations.
What keeps me coming back to the board now is partly the old familiar faces whom I know from back in those days, but also in very large part the new people with interesting perspectives and things to share or ask. Seeing new members join (perhaps after lurking for some time) and start participating and eventually become "oldtimers" themselves is very inspiring. I keep learning all the time, whereas I think if we had just stayed in the same place with all the same people we would probably have already had most of our interesting discussions already and have given up talking much. I have been on lists where there was not enough new life and things just got stale. So I really appreciate the continuing vigor of this place, and I think that a large part of the credit goes to the new people signing on and the people who were new a year or two ago now taking on a more mentoring, experienced role.
I still remember with fondness many of those who don't post here often and I miss their conversation and presence but that really is life on the internet or indeed any type of group -- LLL, or your local homeschoolers association, or your church -- take your pick. People move on; they move, their needs change, their children grow up.
Lucy, I always especially enjoy your posts because I can relate to so many of them, being a convert myself. ...and reading on here with my morning coffee, too.
I personally worry just as much as the next person about saying the wrong thing or appearing silly but that's why I like coming on here, because it's a place where we can have REAL conversations from a variety of perspectives and still keep the personal touch. I am sure it's not the only place like that on the web and I am also very sure none of us are perfect and that there are still glitches to be worked out with the board management but there is SO much good here. Just the prayer forum alone has done a power of good and I think that multiplies throughout the rest of the fora too.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Carole N.
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No, Amy, I think that in reading your post I became more aware of what was bothering me. Cay sent me there through her blog, and I was so thankful to find your blog. It is a true treasure!
I had been feeling that things were different, but I could not really put my finger on it. I did feel that after the Waldorf discussion, there was a change. For me, change is a hard thing. I know you may be thinking, how can she move to Wales and be afraid of change? Well, I did it for my family.
Which is why I visit this forum. Everyone here is great, but if I was just a mom who sent my kids to school or had no children at all (what a horrible thought), I would not be here. I do this to make learning more REAL for my children. And believe me, this involves change.
And so many of you have contributed to this. Natalia, even though we are not in neighboring states anymore, you have been so inspirational to me. Willa I appreciate your deep thought about children and special needs. You are just two of the many reasons that I am here. But what brought me here was Real Learning. I am so thankful everyday for it and for Elizabeth and all her efforts to share with us.
I know that I cannot list everyone here, but know that the 4 Real Conference, all of the moderators, everyone on this forum has given me something. Our schooling has changed to learning as a result of this and my family is so appreciative. And so am I!
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Carole ... in Wales
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 5:26pm | IP Logged
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amyable wrote:
I certainly hope a blog post I did a few days ago regarding this board didn't offend any new members... I could see how someone *might* read it that way if they were wont to, but I was only lamenting the *loss* of some of my favorite old members, not saying in ANY way that new people ruined it.
Please forgive me if my poor choice of words has hurt any feelings.
And on the whole topic of this thread, I agree that we can't know what is going on behind the scenes of everyone's decisions. I've been privvy to thoughts from several different sides, and I know that circumstances can make things *seem* one way when in fact they are something else.
HUGS to everyone having difficulty with all this. |
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I just wanted to say, Amy---I think you have a beautiful blog-----the honest,sincere tone reveals your sweetness and humility. There is no air of snobbiness that comes off.
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Nina Murphy
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| Posted: April 07 2008 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
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LucyP wrote:
As a new member I hesitate to share my feelings on this discussion. I've been reading and thinking and talking to dh and, well I feel I might as well get it off my chest.
It almost feels as if to some posters, new members spoil things and change things. And as a new member, that makes me feel that I have spoiled things and changed things. Obviously, if I have caused anyone to feel uncomfortable or sad about newer members I am very sorry. This is the first time I have been on the "new member" side of things - previously I was on a board for a long time and newer members suddenly joined in what felt like a mass movement and it did feel "odd" for a while, as older conversations were re-hashed, new alliances made etc.
Overall I have felt welcomed here, but I know as a new Catholic, a socially inept person, and someone who is struggling with many areas of life as well as trying to work out what on earth will work as far as home education for our son, that I have likely posted too much and been clumsy in what I have said. I think the fact that this has been my nice safe welcoming coffee morning kind of place to come (and I have no friends in real life although I am trying to make them!) makes feeling that newer members have spoiled things a shock and a sadness.
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Oh I so pray my rambling, stream of consciousness, emotional post did not contribute to you feeling this way, Lucy! In my asking the questions, I put written expression to what was mostly inner thoughts and ponderings. No use questioning it....God's Will be done....but I was only searching for meaning when asking the *why*s behind an exodus of women from this amazing, life-changing, sacrifice-affirming, creative, nurturing place.
But Willa's right.....this has the Evil One all over it------we need to pray and trust. The division, sadness, suspicions....don't bear any righteous fruit. Let us all get back to rejoicing in one another's company. I know I do---you all mean the world to me, and are so compassionate.
The more I live, and the more I suffer, I realize how important it is to 1) not waste our time on worrying about things we have no control over, and 2) live lives of mercy,"erring" on the side of kindness, as Mother Teresa used to say. Life is so hard; I need to surround myself with people of understanding and compassion, who will "tolerate" my weakness and goof-ups! Who will keep a sense of humor and patiently stick wth me. That is why we are all here----let's keep it that way!
__________________
God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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Lisbet
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Personally I LOVE seeing a 'new' mom here. I LOVE the various viewpoints and styles of writing, schooling, mothering, and living. My horizons have broadened so wonderfully here.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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stefoodie
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Lisbet wrote:
| Personally I LOVE seeing a 'new' mom here. |
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me too!!! esp. the really news ones that are just starting out on the journey -- it's great to see more and more moms/families embrace the homeschooling lifestyle. gives one great hope for the future. and re-affirming as well.
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stef
mom to five
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