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chicken lady
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LisaR wrote:
Molly, when I think of country life, REAL country living, I actually envision Chesterton gambolling around for a stroll, not a care in the world!  |
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Your a nut  Thanks Lisa!!!
I pray you all understand I was just stating OUR spirituality and we don't think it is the only Catholic lifestyle. I was just trying to give examples of like minded Catholics, I am certain all lifestyles could do the same. As Lisa said, it is all good.....Peace!
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Lisbet
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Lisa, I can assure you there is nothing 'rich' about living in the country here in NW Ohio, where I was raised or where I live now. But, (again, where I live) city does indeed=busy noisy. And I really don't understand your attachment reference? Could you elaborate a bit on why there would be more of an attachment to possesions in the country?
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Kathryn UK
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Ironically Chesterton was a Londoner who ended up living in Beaconsfield (medium sized town). So far as I know he never lived in the country. I think he liked the theory of the country life rather more than the practice
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Kathryn
Dh Michael,  Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06)  (11/07)
The Bookworm
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SallyT
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Re anonymity: I agree that it's easy to be anonymous in the big city, though that's true of any new place you happen to live. My great preference is to live where people who have known me since birth do NOT live -- not that I don't love them, and not that I have a particularly checkered past, but I always feel stalked by my 17-year-old self when I'm here in my hometown. And it's a pretty urban place, not a small town at all.
But I think what I mean by anonymity/privacy is that I crave being able to walk out of my house and NOT see lots of other people. By the end of our time in Cambridge, I felt very worn down by the crowds on the sidewalks and the constant human noise. I loved it all, yet I found the close proximity of all these other anonymous-seeming people as exhausting as it was entertaining -- and it was thoroughly entertaining, I have to say!
Most of the places we've lived have been smaller/medium-sized cities: Salt Lake, Cambridge . . . I lived in Charlotte, NC, 20 years ago, before husband and children, and loved it. I like walking places; I like having cultural resources available, I like parks and other places where your life with children can cross paths with other people's. Not sure I'd do well in total isolation, but then, I've never tried it.
In the burbs I do like being able to send the kids outside unsupervised -- my son can walk around the block to visit a friend, and my daughter can walk to her violin lesson. The neighborhood is quiet enough that I don't worry about their doing that, and being able to give them that measure of autonomy is important to me. And the yard means a lot to the little kids, who can't go out in the neighborhood unsupervised -- it's a safe place for them to explore and play without my hovering over them.
What Lindsay says about commuting is true, too -- I miss my husband's having a 15-second commute to work. When he was an Episcopal parish priest, we lived next door to the church. When he was doing his Ph.d, he worked in an office at home. Now he's an adjunct college instructor, and drives however far he has to drive to get to a given job. His usual commute has been about half an hour; last year he was driving 70 miles one way to teach two classes at the University of Mississippi. Now that we have the prospect of one single fulltime job before us, I would love to live close enough for him to walk or bike to work, but prices that close to the college are looking prohibitive, so I think we're just going to go for a house we like in a community we find pleasant and be happy with that. At this stage, we do want some space in the house, as well as outside -- our current house is maxed out on bookshelf space, and half our books are still in storage. So that will guide our decisionmaking, too.
We have friends who work in an inner-city medical mission here, part of which involves their living in the inner-city neighborhood which their mission serves. What they do is wonderful, Christlike and admirable . . . but they also think that anyone who ISN'T living where they live is running away from the poor and thereby contributing to the city's problems. When they say, "Love your neighbor," they seem to mean that the only neighbors who really matter are THEIR neighbors, who are admittedly high-need. But of course in truth there's no neighborhood that doesn't need families to be a Christian witness. An affluent neighborhood may "need" the witness of a good family as much as a poor one; a suburban one as much as a small-town one, and so on.
I suppose one question it's important to ask, which maybe doesn't get asked as much when people are considering where to live, is "How will this setting vs another setting cultivate virtue in me and my family?" Usually we as a culture think in terms of expedients -- what will make my life easier/more pleasant/more convenient? -- not in terms of how this kind of decision will be conducive to our spiritual flourishing, and to our witness. And of course there's no one-size-fits-all answer -- though I can't think of a situation to which the questions wouldn't apply!
Sally (sitting here with a stomach virus which struck this morning, and amazed that I managed to say that much without, um, interruption. Waiting for my husband to get home so that I can NOT be listening for the kids playing outside, and fall into bed!)
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Castle in the Sea
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LisaR
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| Posted: March 28 2008 at 12:42pm | IP Logged
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Lisbet wrote:
| Could you elaborate a bit on why there would be more of an attachment to possesions in the country? |
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I just heard from a friend who homeschools 9 kids and they have tried to live the rural life for 6 years this is some of what she mentioned:
you need so much more to make it "work"
animals come with vet bills and rising feed costs
septic fields fail
well needs to be re dug
need to buy a different vehicle to manage the rural roads
need the riding lawnmower and then the snowblower, and then the bigger riding mower
taxes (at least around here) are now only 6-11% less than "city" taxes
need to buy, and then store, more books due to lack of nearby/good library
dh is gone more often due to longer commute, then more busy when he is home with upkeep.
need the sump pump due to flooding
generator
attached garage/mudroom because otherwise mud/excrement gets tracked in
need to buy new mailboxes as the one on the road keeps getting bashed in with baseball bat by teens.
and that is just part of it.
I just know for our own family, I suppose we could somehow make it work if we needed to? but we can not afford the country life (gas prices alone makes it out of reach) and we can afford where we live now, and that is the bottom line.
However, one point that has not been mentioned- is what about living in the country when dad works from home?? I think that would be a fascinating/rewarding lifestyle??
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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SallyT wrote:
I suppose one question it's important to ask, which maybe doesn't get asked as much when people are considering where to live, is "How will this setting vs another setting cultivate virtue in me and my family?" Usually we as a culture think in terms of expedients -- what will make my life easier/more pleasant/more convenient? -- not in terms of how this kind of decision will be conducive to our spiritual flourishing, and to our witness. And of course there's no one-size-fits-all answer -- though I can't think of a situation to which the questions wouldn't apply!
Sally (sitting here with a stomach virus which struck this morning, and amazed that I managed to say that much without, um, interruption. Waiting for my husband to get home so that I can NOT be listening for the kids playing outside, and fall into bed!) |
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Sally, I hope you feel better soon!
your above quote is a very good thought. again I wonder how much of our own childhood plays into what we desire now? I know for me, growing up non Catholic/without faith community, coupled with dh's childhood experiences of the rural dead 15 family "mission" parish, ,PLUS dh's Ministry work, made us have a firm resolve to live walking distance to a Catholic Church.
Our lives literally revolve around the Church, and that is what I want for my kids.
I might not be able to "do" the Domestic Church thing the best, but I sure can get us up to perpetual adoration, and daily Mass, and that is priceless to me!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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chicken lady
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LisaR wrote:
need to buy new mailboxes as the one on the road keeps getting bashed in with baseball bat by teens.
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This just happened to us  As for the other issues, I am sorry, all I can say is WOW, we have not experienced that, nor did I growing up on a farm. Those poor dear people must be worn out.
Wait, I do have a mud issue and I do hoard books But I did in town too!!
As for the money issues, people in town spend money on what they need and want and folks in the country do as well. No biggie, nothing is perfect, there are pros and cons to all things.
I too hope you feel better soon Sally!
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LisaR
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chicken lady wrote:
As for the other issues, I am sorry, all I can say is WOW, we have not experienced that, nor did I growing up on a farm. Those poor dear people must be worn out.
Wait, I do have a mud issue and I do hoard books But I did in town too!!
As for the money issues, people in town spend money on what they need and want and folks in the country do as well. No biggie, nothing is perfect, there are pros and cons to all things. |
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yep, exactly, dh and I occasionally joke that we must know alot of "unlucky" country-ites, OR we have it easier in some ways than we think and we should be more grateful instead of complaining/moaning/worrying about our own financial situation.
THE ROOF IS PAID OFF BY THE WAY!!! HOORAY!!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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DeAnn M
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Two quick points.
1) I love that the Catholic Faith is "Both... And" And not just "either...or" I love discussing this with my Protestant friends because it really stumps them. "You mean you believe in faith AND works and not just works?" Yes. "You mean we have free will AND you can still believe in the sovereignty of God?" Yes. ETC...ETC... This idea has really helped me to be more, dare I use the term, "open-minded" about other points of view. It feels more universal in the catholic sense of the word
2) I STRONGLY believe that most of us would love to live in the country to simplify and have the need for less stuff not for status. ( Once again, in the city, there is less need for a car and typically less storage so less stuff. The "both..and"not "either..or." Country is just my preference--not the only way to achieve this end.) Who's out there to impress? Do the cows really care if you have a bigger house and a Plasma TV? :#) I don't want a bigger house for vanity's sake or to fill it with even more stuff. I do want more land not for what it's worth or for status but because my little 1/2 acre plot does not do much for getting in touch with nature and, as I mentioned earlier, it's something that I can pass on to my children. (I'm not as defensive as I sound I can't get the little smiley face to work, so pretend there is one by the cow comment.)
Also, I realize that I idealize country life. I know that, "Simple" does not mean "easy." (Both of my parents were from farming families. I've listened to the stories and I know that it is not an easy way of life) But, it does, for me at least me less attachment to things. That's one reason why I want to be away from the mall, the clothing stores, the "Joneses." I fully admit, I am very susceptible to wanting to live the yuppie dream that is so prevalent in our area. I want to get away from the need of owning a Kate Spade bag. For me, as stubborn as I am, a physical location change would help. Sometimes, I suppose, our hearts need to change right where we are though, right? How do we find contentment, or rather be content where we are when our hearts are desiring something completely different? I'm having trouble discerning that. Whoopsie! I got lost. Taking a break from school today and finding myself with too much time to think!
I guess that was three not so quick points.
You all are great, and this thread has given me some spunk and energy that I have needed.
Blessings,
DeAnn
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Lisbet
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Lisa, I am just amazed at how very different our circles are! We have discussed many different topics where I sit and think "Wow, we must run in very different circles!"
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Lisbet
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Lisa, (again) I still fail to see the 'attachment' connection. You do what you need to do wherever you live ~ right? For most, it's certainly not about having more at all. It's about having what you need - and everyones needs are different, country or city.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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LisaR
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so, can you all tell we're on "spring Break", the kids are playing "cops and robbers" with the neighbors, and I'm taking care of my little recovering Thomas??
this will be my last post (ok, at least for today!!)
When I think of living in the country, I think back to 100, 125, even 50 years ago. the NORM was, that if you lived on the land, you worked the land.
Don't you all agree that the norm now of a dad living 20,30,40 miles or more from his place of employment is a very recent one?
that (the purpose) to live in the country used to mean to farm, and to live in the city meant to have a city job?
now what I see, at least with every single country family we know, is that even if they "farm" the dads ALL still have another "outside" job which takes him off of his property.
This is especially made real to us from our homeschooling Apostolic Christian Friends- they left persecution in Switzerland in the 1800's and moved to this area to farm in peace and without religious persecution. Now the AC'ers (as they are called around here) almost all of them have to work at jobs other than farming. They share often about their passed down stories from the "good old days"- just 100 years ago! and how the religion that they formed has had to really re discern its focus as it can't be "Shaker like" anymore and still survive...
maybe this is why it looks to be difficult to me, or what I mean when I say a foot in "both worlds"??
just thinking outloud...
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Lisbet
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Me again 
I was just pondering this a bit more (teething baby is a nurse-a-holic today!)
As I said before, we are city dwellers right now, I thought I'd list the upkeep/repair/replace type list we have experienced recently:
Had to replace a blown gasline, gas was off for 3 days, repairs were not cheap.
Had to have street gas lines replaced, this was at the expense of the gas company, but gas was turned off another three days.
Had to pay to have a tree removed so gas line could be replaced
Basement flooded due to sewer lines backing up after storms.
Replaced furnace after it broke down last year.
Had to pay vet to have dog cared for. (we will be putting her down in the next few months :( )
Our city taxes are similiar to those of the property we are considering.
Legal fees because of our awful neighbors.
Just shows that there are expenses to owning a home, period, country or city! (I will admit though, we seem to have had a streak of 'bad luck' the past two years!)
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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Mackfam
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Wow! I had no idea there were so many strong feelings about country living or those of us who choose to live in the country. We would go wherever dh's job took us - city, burbs, or country - and I'd welcome the adventure. We can be family wherever God decides to plant us. I do think each family can pursue their own preference, there isn't a more Catholic geography.
Let me also add that just because we live in the country doesn't mean we farm. My dh is an engineer, and he does commute to work. He says he enjoys the commute - work is stressful and there is always a joyful noise here at home - the commute is his quiet time to detox from work, pray, or just listen to the radio. Again, it is about perspective. Some of you can't imagine dh commuting and take measures to avoid it. We have a different perspective. Neither are more right, or loftier than the other, just different perspectives.
Just a note - we have no desire for status here in the country. We live as simply and as frugally as we are able. There are certain material goods/tools that we are grateful for, but they in no way embolden us with a feeling of superiority. They're just tools.
I think there is beauty everywhere - even in the crowded burbs if you have the perspective to see it. Our family enjoys the quiet and elbow room of the country. Others of you enjoy the culture and diversity of the city. How wonderful that God created us all so unique, yet still in His Image!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Tina P.
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Lisbet wrote:
| Again, (just like the vanity thread) personal discernment comes into play big time with this topic. We ARE indeed needed everywhere, and where each individual and family can best serve Our Lord is the right place for them to be. |
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I wondered out loud a couple of times, "Why Utah?" My family is in Wisconsin, so LisaR's neighboring house sounds just up *my* alley. It's close to Grandma and Grandpa's house so as to not make a major trip, full of major expenses, to get there.
My husband patiently told me (more than once) that had a feeling that Utah was where the Lord called him to be. How can I even *think* of thwarting what he believes is God's will? We have our four seasons. The air is about 75% less humid than Wisconsin. We have mountains. We have great friends from church. The balance of people are a little ... different here.
I miss cardinals and eastern bluebirds. I miss my mom and dad's "up north" of 20 acres. And I miss buddying around with my brothers and sisters and ESPECIALLY getting together with the larger family on holidays. But we can't have the best of both worlds.
I think the best we can do is to be happy where we are at the present moment. We have to stop thinking about what we might be missing. That was a hard pill for me to swallow,especially as regarded missing my family in early marriage. I'm finally figuring it out 16 years later!
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
Mary's Muse
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lapazfarm
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A few things:
1. I often wonder if our choice of living country/city has something to do with our personalities more than anything else. I am an introvert, drawing my energy from time spent alone or with family, and from nature. The business of cites saps my energy, big-time and I get easily overwhelmed. I know others that get charged up by the city, and go nuts with the solitude of the country life.
2. The gas issue. For most of us who live the country life, we just don't go out much, so gas isn't really that big of an issue. And this is by choice. I like being home.
3. The cost. Country living can be expensive, I suppose, but I find it just the opposite. I've never had most of the expenses on Lisa's friends list. In fact, that list rings a bit false to me.Different cars for rural roads? It's not like our dirt roads are not maintained. My Taurus did just fine for years! Now I have a SUV, but that is just because of the traveling we do, not because of daily needs. Animals come with vet bills. Yes, so do pampered pets. But poodles don't lay eggs or give milk for the table, now do they?
4. I also find that living from the country frees me from many expenses I would have if living in the city. I don't even know what a "Kate Spade bag" looks like, never heard of it until now, much less felt the tug to own one.I have heard of Vera Bradley bags, but only through you ladies here. No one I know IRL has one. My wardrobe consists of 2 pairs of jeans, some khaki pants, T-shirts and button-downs, 2 sweaters, a sweatshirt, and a few skirts/blouses for church. And 4 pairs of shoes.This is pretty typical for country folk. When I lived in the city or the burbs, I felt like I was constantly being evaluated by how I looked (and my children as well!)-I tried to dress more stylishly, spent a lot more on wardrobe for myself, my dh, and the children, and I (we)still never could measure up because there was always someone who had the newer and the nicer and the latest fad. My self esteem was shot. Here, no one cares. It just seems less superficial to me. It is much easier to be poor in the country.
5. There is more freedom in the country. I don't want to have to conform to someone else's ideas about what I should or should not have in my yard, what color I can paint my house, and what I can/cannot park in my driveway.I cannot live that way.
All that said, city life has it's advantages (like Starbucks, for one!LOL!), and country life does have it's drawbacks. We have fewer museums, concerts, activities, etc for the children. And if those things are your priority, then country life may not be for you. But they are not my priority. Mine is being able to look out my window and see trees, a meadow, and a stream rolling by, not houses, a parking lot, and cars speeding past. I need to hear the crickets and the babbling creek when I lay my head down at night, not cars and babbling neighbors. I do not like waking up to the sound of my neighbor's leaf blower, or that of his lawn service.
I can always go to town and see museums, exhibits, concerts, etc. when I feel like getting a bit of culture. But every day, I have all of creation at my doorstep, all I have to do is step outside. And that is worth a million museum visits to me.
Like someone said already. It doesn't have to be either, or. For me, city life would be like a living death. For others, country life would be equally dismal. The key is to recognize what makes us bloom, and plant ourselves there!
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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CrunchyMom
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Mackfam wrote:
| He says he enjoys the commute - work is stressful and there is always a joyful noise here at home - the commute is his quiet time to detox from work, pray, or just listen to the radio. Again, it is about perspective. Some of you can't imagine dh commuting and take measures to avoid it. We have a different perspective. Neither are more right, or loftier than the other, just different perspectives. ] |
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Yes, this is true. And we also have different "needs" as people and also at different places in our lives. I can't imagine my dh commuting because I rely so much on his being close by. I also don't have family nearby, and I have 2 little ones with another on the way. He also hates driving in traffic and I see it being something that would increase stress rather than decrease it.
I can definitely see our needs changing as the chldren are older. It might be both a bigger priority to have the land for my children to explore freely AND easier to cope with toddlers and babes with older children to help out. The upkeep on more land and a bigger house might be easier with more hands to help keep it clean.
So, I can see perspectives and needs being different--and also changing at different stages of family life. Also, we are trying to make financial decisions now that will give us more freedom to make different ones in the future should we decide that is best for our family.
Fwiw, many of the people who write about Agrarianism that I know personally live in the same type of setting Chesterton did. I'm not sure that farming leaves as much time for pouring over books and writing as they would like
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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DeAnn M
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I really have to get off of this computer.
Another Fwiw, Wendell Berry lives, works and writes on a farm. I think I even heard that his wife types his work for him and they love that time that they spend together. He definitely practices what he preaches.
I can't help but have the theme song to "Green Acres" in my head as I read through this thread.
DeAnn
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Cay Gibson
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LisaR wrote:
| Most of our city council is Catholic, our Mayor is a daily Mass goeer... |
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Us too! We have a great Mayor. Totally awesome. Even the Protestants think so.
We've always lived on the outskirts of town. Always.
I grew up on my grandfather's truck farm. When he died the property was split between my father and his older sister. People came in and began building around us. That area became part of the city. I got married and our first home was again on the outskirts. Then we moved south of town, still on the outskirts. Thirteen years later we moved again north of town, still on the outskirts.
Not in town, enough elbow room, houses spaced, but still just a hop/skip/jump from civilization. We can still have our bonfires, our chickens, our gardens, our horses, our running space, our goats...even our fireworks at New Year's and 4th of July...if we want, but the conveniences are still close by.
I thought I always wanted to live way off in the "Big Woods" or on the high prairie but, after Hurricane Rita in 2005, we came home to that type lifestyle. Nothing was open and no one went anywheres. We had to travel just to find gas and groceries. Even Wal-Mart was only open for a limited amount of hours a day and National Guard soldiers patrolled the aisles with guns.  I know that's not part of the country-lifestyle, I'm just saying the travel and isolation are.
While I like the image, the reality was tough. I missed my quick shots into town for bread and milk. We still visit friends east of town who live on a farm and, while I'd love to have the land and marsh and freedom they have (mostly for my boys), I tell myself how blessed we are to have these friends who invite my boys to come out to their house regularly and I still count my blessings here.
Now that life is once again what our area terms as "normal", I realize we do live in the best of both worlds. On the outskirts.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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Taffy
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Joined: April 05 2005
Location: Canada
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| Posted: March 28 2008 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
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Well, happymama, if you're still looking for opinions...
I echo everything that Theresa mentioned. City life simply drains me - whenever I travel to the city I am always so grateful to live in the rural areas. I get cranky when my only view is my neighbour's house. I absolutely need my daily contact with nature in order to keep myself sane.
I do enjoy many of the things that cities offer, just wouldn't want to live there. When I am craving a night at the symphony, or a major sports event, or a day spent at the museums, etc. we simply book a day and head out and do it. I have a strong suspicion that if we lived closer, we would be so busy with other stuff that we would simply take these opportunities for granted.
Our closest city is a two hour drive away and is actually quite small, less than 200,000 people. Yet, I get a headache whenever I have to shop there. I have access to whatever books I want through our local library and have a personal relationship with the librarians. They have cut me a LOT of slack with late returns or getting more than the 40 books out at a time that we're allowed per card - often they will simply renew them and assume that we aren't headed into town that day.
Housing costs around here are still affordable because we are so rural - we are currently looking to purchase our first home. I have no doubt that we could not afford this in the city when still living with only my husband's income.
And, with the internet now, I don't find myself nearly as cut off from others or from needed information when I need to know something.
But, to each his own!
__________________
Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
Susan's Soliloquy
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: live in town or the country?
