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guitarnan
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| Posted: Feb 18 2008 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
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My son called African-American people "brown" for the longest time...even after we discussed appropriate terminology. Children see things more honestly than we do, I think - they see skin colors as colors, not stereotypes. We adults read the stereotypes in, I think, because we tend to associate certain words or phrases with stereotyped or racist opinions.
Our co-op is wonderful because we have so many large Catholic families that have grown through adoption. One family went from no children to 7 Filipino siblings. Another couple welcomed children from the USA (varying ethnic heritages) and China. I think framing families in terms of love and faith rather than racial stereotypes is so, so wonderful. (Rachel, Bill is so right!)
For what it's worth, I just visited my home town - it's always been about 1/3 Caucasian, 1/3 African American and 1/3 Hispanic. I've always felt blessed to have grown up in such a place...where I could be friends with children of rich cultural heritages, where I learned some Spanish words as soon as I hit kindergarten, where I found out early on that children don't view race through the same "lenses" as adults do. I didn't think much about race until I was in 7th grade, actually.
The Los Angeles Unified School District teaches children who speak about 85 different languages at home. I realize that such diversity presents challenges, but it's also a treasure. I grew up in an area that's home to people from every continent except Antarctica - and I think that's helped me keep a level head and pass my love of world cultures on to my own children.
At the risk of hijacking this fascinating and important thread, I would like to mention two things. First, our country isn't the only nation on earth with a racism problem - far from it. The world press frames our country through a racist lens, at times, but I can tell you from personal experience that there are plently of other countries that reject people of African heritage - or Arabic - or (fill in blank)...
Second, the idea of collective national guilt isn't exclusive to us, either. This definitely doesn't mean that we should ignore our history, but it should help us to understand how, for example, today's young German people feel distance from the national concern over Germany's Nazi years.
I think one of the real blessings of homeschooling is that I have the chance to fully address my children's concerns on these issues, in an age-appropriate and faith-centered way, as their questions arise. We've been to Germany several times and our friends there have been very honest with my ds (16) about Nazism and how today's Germany is working to educate young people about the past. We've been to Manzanar and seen how Japanese-Americans were interned during WWII, first hand.
There are so many great ideas and profound thoughts in this thread. Thank you, Heather, for bringing up this important topic.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Erica Sanchez
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| Posted: Feb 19 2008 at 12:50am | IP Logged
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Rachel May wrote:
For what it's worth, I think it's more confusing being hispanic.  |
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Oh, Rachel! I just had to post and tell you that I'm laughing out loud over here with you! :) :) :) I'm not Hispanic, I just married one. And, I wonder if he barely counts anymore - his grandparents were born here, his parents, himself. Truthfully, I'm a little less than 1/4 'Mexican' because my grandmother was part Hispanic. We always just said 'Mexican' growing up. See, confusing!
Anyway, while I was at the hospital having Max, a nurse walked in and said, 'you don't look Hispanic'. No I don't. :) Our kids don't really either. BUT, Max is our darkest baby and Cash was so proud when he was born saying, "We finally got a little Mexican!" He's not really all that dark, but don't tell dad.
Bridget - I love the way you spoke about our identity being first Catholic. I love to think about our universal Church - all the different colors, cultures and languages - beautiful!
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Have a beautiful and fun day!
Erica in San Diego
(dh)Cash, Emily, Grace, Nicholas, Isabella, Annie, Luke, Max, Peter, 2 little souls ++, and sweet Rose who is legally ours!
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msclavel
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| Posted: Feb 19 2008 at 7:55am | IP Logged
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Oh my, so much to say on this. Fantastic discussion.
You know, I keep trying to post something that makes sense, and I just can't. It seems that this Caucasian looking Hispanic girl is just as confused about all this as any little child  .
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MacBeth
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| Posted: Feb 19 2008 at 10:30am | IP Logged
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We live in one of the most racially integrated areas in the world. It's also ethnically integrated, and everyone knows everyone's ethnicity. I hear from friends who visit that they find it so strange that we all speak of ethnicity so openly around here. It's always, "that Italian guy" or "he's from Pakistan" or "she's Irish" or "have you met the new file clerk? She's Turkish" or even "I'm going to go pick up some fruit from the Korean [grocer]" and on and on. Everyone is from somewhere else. In another day, the names for such people were less accurate, and less flattering. I understand there are certain parts of the country where the terms are still less flattering, but around here, if you hear the "N" word, it's usually on the subway, and it's one black kid calling to another  .
Naturally, children, like adults, like to categorize things, and people are no exception We have a descriptive language, and we are keen to use it. And some characteristics are more obvious than others, and come to mind more quickly. In our hsing group, there are two "Mrs. X". One is British (and black) and one is Irish. In our huge Barnes and Noble the other day, my kids saw one of them, and said, "We just saw Mrs. X." Of course, I asked which one, and they answered, "The black one." They paused and wondered if it were OK to call her that. It was the quickest way to describe her. (I later told the kids they could also have told me her first name, but they said they didn't feel right about that .)
The issue of race comes up a good deal in Libby's life. She is a minority at her music school, and always has been. The NY Times recently did an article on Asians and music. Libby pointed out that she was one of the most unusual kids in her program--a non-Jewish white kid, not from Europe (at least for 4 generations!!) is unique. Even in her chamber trio, the cellist is from Haiti, and the pianist is from Hungary. Most of her friends are Asian.
The issue of adoption is more complex. My uncle is married to an Asian woman who is adopted by an American family, and when he's out with their kids and folks ask him if they are adopted, he replies, "No, but my wife is."  My other uncle has a son adopted from Chile, but since his wife is Italian and my uncle is "black Irish" no one ever asks if their son is adopted.
Anyway, in an area like this, where we think about ethnicity all the time religion is a binding force. But even that has its biting moments. I was at a Protestant hsing conference once and a woman who had moved from this area said, "Oh, it's so Catholic there. We had to move." Awkward. 
There is no magic solution. The "us" vs. "them" instinct in humans is very strong. Yet I always think of the Star Trek episode (original series) with Abraham Lincoln, where he calls Uhuru a "lovely Nigress." Shocking! Yet she does not get upset, and says simply that in that [future] time that names like that don't matter. When will that time be? I have no idea. As a Celt, I still find it annoying to be called "Anglo"
ETA: On a more amusing note, I have a Swedish friend who married a Chinese guy, and when she had her daughter, the nurses kept looking around for Mrs. Wong, and were afraid she had left the hospital!
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
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MacBeth's Blog 
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Mary Chris
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| Posted: Feb 19 2008 at 12:49pm | IP Logged
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You know for such a big group it is always amazes me when we are thinking about the same things.
I have been writing on post on how to survive the lily-white suburbs for a few days now. Now our neighborhood is not really lily-white, on our little 4 house block we have a Vietnemese family, Cambodian family and Indian family. We have a lot of Indian neighbors, there is a Hindu Temple right outside our community. I had to explain Diwali this year because of all the fireworks going off in November. There are also lots of Hispanics and Asians. But we have very few African-Americans.
Last Friday I took my kiddos into DC, to the Duke Ellington School of Performing Arts to see The Wiz. We were with a small group of homeschoolers, and did not actually sit with them, we were seperated by a few rows. The rest of the auditorium was school kids from DC. Now my kiddos looked a little uncomfortable. There were other things going on, dd almost 13 was a bit pissy because she did not have a friend, and the show started almost 30 minutes late. My kids can sit quietly for that long but school kids, not as much. So there was lots of loud talking and pushing each other around. I think my kiddos were a bit shell-shocked.
I want them to be around children from other backgrounds and I don't want color to matter but what do you do when you don't have those oppurtunities?
Like MacBeth, I tend to categorize by ethnicity. Now I grew up in San Diego and Hawaii. In Hawaii, I was in the minority. There you also would categorize by ethnicity, friends would brag about being Samoan, or part Hawaiian. There was also a lot of anti-white or haole sentiment. When I lived in Korea, they would be offended to be called anything other than Korean.
My dh and I both grew up in not very tolerant households. I was forbidden to date an African-American boy I had a crush on. We both want to make sure that our children don't have that same experience.
So I'm not really sure what I am getting at...but I think this is a great discussion. I have to get going in a few minutes but maybe later today, I'll start a thread on how to survive the lily-white suburbs.
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Blessings, Mary Chris Beardsley
mom to MacKenzie3/95, Carter 12/97 Ronan 3/00 and wife to Jim since 1/92
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hmbress
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| Posted: Feb 19 2008 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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Rachel - what a great breakdown of all the different types and stages of talking about these issues.
Rachel May wrote:
| Most people are just being curious, they don't see it as being nosey, and if they are particularly exasperating (I've been told,"I think it's GREAT what you're doing!" as if our family was designed as a political statement instead out of love), I'll vent to my husband later. |
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Oh yes, we get this a lot too. I certainly don't like being put on some kind of pedestal just because our kids are adopted instead of biological. Or because they are a different race or ethnicity. It isn't as if this is how we expected to build our family! While our kids are nothing but blessings, those blessings are the result of tragic circumstances. But that is another topic altogether!
Michaela wrote:
When my oldest was still very young, I made a conscious decision to shield him from this ugly truth as long as possible. There was no way I would have my 3, 4, 5, _ _ year old think that their skin color was somehow bad. All the books that included this subject matter were delayed until I believed my child to be ready. For example, Martin Luther King was discussed when I felt ready, but the information I shared at a young age was (basically) that he was a great man who wanted all people to be treated fairly. Focusing discussions on the peace, nonviolence, and fair treatment that can easily be discussed without going into skin color. Books and conversations about Rosa Parks, blacks in the back of the bus...segregated schools, drinking fountains, "Whites Only" "Colored Only" .....negativity and mean because of skin color had to wait ....
Conversations should happen naturally not based on when a school curriculum decides it's time. Children learn how to deal with this from their parents. |
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OH! I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my original post. I enrolled my oldest (4) in a play-based preschool in January (because I thought I'd be busy with a newborn) and was surprised that on MLK day they discussed all of the above. I wasn't quite comfortable and wasn't sure why. For sure I thought it was an awfully heavy topic for 4-year-olds, but now I'm realizing that it's just a subject I don't want my (partially African-American) kids to have to worry about or grapple with until it's truly necessary.
Barbara - thanks for the book recommendations - I will check those out.
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Heather Rose (ds13, ds10)
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 19 2008 at 2:05pm | IP Logged
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I realize this isn't quite what this thread is about.
But also it may be good to realize that bullies will use anything to put down another person.
Having been a victim of it.. it's just as senseless as racism.. but totally unpredictable. It doesn't matter how trendy or not you are.. or what color you are or not.. or how you wear your hair or anything else.. they'll grab anything about you at all.. even if it's something they share.. and use it to put you down.. 
And bullying is pretty pervasive too. Luckily with homeschooling it's a lot harder for it to happen because we, the parents, are there so much.
But actually, part of my point was how close the whole bullying/racism aspect is.. and how no one is exempt from it, regardless of ethnicity.
But also, that perhaps some of the information out there on bullying (and avoiding it and stopping it etc) would be applicable for helping with dealing with racism since they often stem from the same type of thing.. namely - making yourself feel bigger or better by pushing down the other person.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Racial Awareness, Racial Issues
