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Elizabeth Founder
Real Learning
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Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 2:18pm | IP Logged
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Laraine says I'm choleric-melancholic as well. I can see exactly what you're saying, Jenn, because you sound almost precisely like me . I've never finished a temperament book because I always get bogged down in the details and I can't even figure myself out, never mind trying to figure out my kids and my spouse. I think many people would be surprised to know that I'm absolutely an introvert. And I really consider that one of the challenges of homeschooling a large family. I go to some pretty extreme lengths to catch some time alone . I can write and deliver a speech quite well, but I'm practically catatonic for days afterward. And if that speech is in the context of a conference--oh my--major sensory overload!
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
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I had a feeling we were kindred spirits!!! We seem sympatico in so many ways! I knew it when I Believe in Love totally hit the mark for you!!!
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Laraine Forum Newbie
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Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 4:03pm | IP Logged
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OK, you two. You both want to be ALL the temperaments, but that would be greedy!
Seriously, though, I was just about to say that maybe, Jenn, you really are melancholic-choleric rather than the other way around, because a choleric by now would have lost patience with the whole process! How impatient and how much attention to detail may actually be the deciding factors. (Of course, I don't mean the kind of impatience that is due to being stressed out by circumstances! I mean the kind that would have been exhibited throughout your entire life, due to the quick reaction time--you would have memories of your mother saying things like, "Don't be so impatient!" "Don't say 'I know' all the time!" and you would have suffered through sewing class because you always tried to make a dress without following the pattern, etc.) A choleric-melancholic will be more impatient, slightly more extraverted, more prone to looking at the "big picture." If it is the other way around, you would be more introverted, less likely to take charge, and have a greater attention to detail. I know it is a fine line. Another way to look at it is: what are your biggest weaknesses? That sometimes helps to determine one's temperament, because it is often so hard to get rid of those weaknesses that seem to be naturally ingrained in us! We may have developed other strengths through education, upbringing, and growth in virtue (or even through gender: women tend to be more naturally peacemakers than men, and they are rewarded for that, rather than being rewarded for being a real take-charge momma!) Another example: I have a friend who is an amazing hostess and entertains a lot. But she admits that it is extremely stressful for her. She is a melancholic who was raised in the South and entertaining was what Southern women did! So, her ability to entertain is not because she is part sanguine, but because she has learned to do it, and has grown up with it so that it is almost "second-nature."
Also, you asked: "I can't have an extraverted Sanguine and introverted Melancholic but a choleric extravert can combine with an introvert melancholic?" This is a controversial point, but we believe it is not possible because the melancholic and the sanguine are opposed IN EVERY ASPECT, not just in the extravert/introvert aspect. A sanguine-melancholic would be someone who by nature reacts quickly, yet slowly; has a short memory, yet a long one; whose attention is quickly diverted, yet is intense and focussed; who is superficial, yet deeply analytical; who is outwardly focusses, yet also internally focussed; who is action-oriented, yet passive; who is light-hearted, yet serious; who is invigorated by social events, yet drained. Someone may start out with a sanguine temperament and LEARN, through GREAT EFFORT and training to go more in-depth. They will constantly be fighting the urge to let something slide, to run with the first impression,etc. Once they are in a position of responsibility, of course they will grow in the virtues and skills needed on the job. It is easier to see with our children the temperaments in action, because they have not yet learned how to behave in all situations. What are the virtues or skills that are the most difficult for them to acquire? These are the ones that most likely run counter to their God-given temperament!
So, back to the choleric-melancholic question. These two are not entirely conflicting as described above for the hypothetical sanguine-melancholic. They have one or two areas of conflict, which are usually decided by the dominant temperament. (We may have to find a better temperament test for you, to see if you really are perfectly divided or whether the tests were incorrect on a few critical points.)
Please let me know if this is at all helpful!
__________________ Laraine Bennett
Bristow, VA
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
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Laraine,
The opposite temperament explanation makes sense. If you were on this side of the monitor, you would have heard some "Oooooooh! Now I see!" and seeing light bulbs going on. I just couldn't get exactly understand the opposite temperament thing!
Laraine wrote:
Another way to look at it is: what are your biggest weaknesses? That sometimes helps to determine one's temperament, because it is often so hard to get rid of those weaknesses that seem to be naturally ingrained in us. |
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This is very helpful. I'll have to think about that. Your questions on what was I like growing up, I could answer yes 1 out of 3. I was extremely impatient in sewing class, and although I usually read directions thoroughly now, throughout grade school years I thought I could figure it out.
I can see that it can be a fine line between the two personalities of choleric/melancholic or vice versa. I still am pondering things, but maybe it will be clearer soon. My melancholic side needs to turn things over and make it make sense
I did talk to my mother and she said I've always been very aware of people's feelings, even as a young child...very empathetic. When she was having hard times, I would feel it and take on her pain...I still do that. Would that just be an entirely different temperament? Can you just have aspects of another temperament.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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tovlo4801 Forum All-Star
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Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
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I've been debating posting a question because it's not really a burning question for me , but maybe it dovetails with Jenn's question.
When I take temperment quizzes, I come up as melancholic/phlematic. My only real sticking point on this assessment is that I think I react quickly to things. I think that I am impatient. A big joke in our house it that I can't make instant mashed potatoes. They always turn out an opaque sloppy mess. I just hate taking the time to really examine directions. Most of the time things work out well enough, but sometimes that impatience gets me a mess. I think on these forums sometimes I write a response to something too quickly and would have been better off sitting on it and thinking it through first. I want to know the answers to things and I want to know them NOW!
So my question is about signs of more than two temperments. I'm fine with the idea that I have a dominate meloncholic and secondary phlematic (though phelmatic definately edges out melancholic in the tidyness area for me! ). But when I took the test in the back of your book the third highest total (by only a couple points) was sanguine. I would not say that I am extraverted by any stretch. (Elizabeth, your catatonic state after social interaction suits me perfectly!) Yet that quickness of response doesn't really fit. Also, though social interaction does stress me out and leave me emotionally exhausted, I also sometimes crave interaction with others. The kind of social situations I crave are different though. I like to sort of be the fly on the wall observing large groups of people or having in-depth personal conversations with a few people. I get energized by the ideas I gain from these kinds of conversations, but truthfully the anxiety I feel about whether I said or did everything OK in the conversation does drain me.
I'd sort of explained some of this away to myself. My dad is choleric-sanguine (I'm pretty sure) and I learned that being overly sensitive and shy didn't fly in our house, so I thought some of the sanguine answers were learned behaviors. I also thought maybe I actually respond slowly to things, but because of my perspective I think even a slow response to something is too quick. (I will spend 20-30 minutes writing and re-writing a post and then feel like I should have thought it over more before sending it. ) I've been working with this explanation, but it's never really completely satisfied the natural impatience question. That is a weakness for me. When I read the phelmatic-sanguine description that fits somewhat well for me too. How do you make sense of a close third temperment?
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 8:40pm | IP Logged
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Okay, I just wanted to comment that you describe things so well...and I'm identifying my personal traits in your descriptions:
tovlo4801 wrote:
I think on these forums sometimes I write a response to something too quickly and would have been better off sitting on it and thinking it through first. I want to know the answers to things and I want to know them NOW! |
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So true, so true for me, too. I keep thinking I should just sit back and let other people do the conversation...but do I? No, I keep typing away and then regret that I said too much, too little, said something wrong....
tovlo4801 wrote:
Also, though social interaction does stress me out and leave me emotionally exhausted, I also sometimes crave interaction with others. The kind of social situations I crave are different though. I like to sort of be the fly on the wall observing large groups of people or having in-depth personal conversations with a few people. I get energized by the ideas I gain from these kinds of conversations, but truthfully the anxiety I feel about whether I said or did everything OK in the conversation does drain me. |
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That's the kind of social I like...so I'm sure it's introversion. Family gatherings, one on one conversations (maybe a few more thrown in, but nothing huge), but deep conversations. You can't imagine the type of stuff that I've discussed at parties! I crave the conversations and interactions, but like you said, the next day I'm so worried I said all the wrong things! I'm so pooped!
I'm glad you posted, because it does seem similar to my dilemma...a trait that seems innate that doesn't fit into the two dominant temperaments I have. I was beginning to think I was too mental and bugging Lorraine with a problem only I was perceiving!
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Laraine Forum Newbie
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 10:52am | IP Logged
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Richelle wrote:
"My only real sticking point on this assessment is that I think I react quickly to things. I think that I am impatient... I think on these forums sometimes I write a response to something too quickly and would have been better off sitting on it and thinking it through first...I would not say that I am extraverted by any stretch. (Elizabeth, your catatonic state after social interaction suits me perfectly!) Yet that quickness of response doesn't really fit. Also, though social interaction does stress me out and leave me emotionally exhausted, I also sometimes crave interaction with others. The kind of social situations I crave are different though. I like to sort of be the fly on the wall observing large groups of people or having in-depth personal conversations with a few people. I get energized by the ideas I gain from these kinds of conversations, but truthfully the anxiety I feel about whether I said or did everything OK in the conversation does drain me. " |
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I do think that the above description describes quite well someone who is predominantly melancholic! Wanting to be the fly on the wall in large gatherings, preferring small discussions that really go into depth, worrying about whether you said the right thing--all this fits. Leaving aside the mashed potatoes, the real test for quickness of response may not be how you respond with your husband and children (impatience may come from another source!) or those you feel most comfortable with. You also probably feel more comfortable in this particular forum (like-minded women, message boards, etc.) Indeed, a message board forum is the perfect vehicle for an introvert, as you can read the messages in your own home, reply when you are ready, and mull over the correct word choice! But perhaps the further question might be: How quickly do you respond when having a debate with a group of homeschoolers you are merely acquainted with? Or, if your neighbors are arguing politics? Or you are at a social event and someone starts ragging on the Faith? (Of course, even a very extraverted sanguine will, on occasion, feel over his head and not have something to say! But, we are trying to look at patterns of reaction over time and across the board.) The hallmark of the melancholic is that they do feel very deeply and intensely--but it grows over time: the initial reaction is slow, but then you start mulling it over, debating in your mind, and the reaction grows in intensity, until you might end up being rather upset over the whole thing. And, of course, impatience can also be caused by one's root sin!
__________________ Laraine Bennett
Bristow, VA
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tovlo4801 Forum All-Star
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 11:21am | IP Logged
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Laraine wrote:
Leaving aside the mashed potatoes, the real test for quickness of response may not be how you respond with your husband and children (impatience may come from another source!) or those you feel most comfortable with.
But perhaps the further question might be: How quickly do you respond when having a debate with a group of homeschoolers you are merely acquainted with? Or, if your neighbors are arguing politics? Or you are at a social event and someone starts ragging on the Faith? |
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Interesting point. I am very reluctant state an opinion with people IRL that I don't know well. I'm much more comfortable telling people I'm close to what I think. (perhaps too comfortable , melancholic trait I suppose?) My husband is very comfortable spouting theological things to people and I cringe sometimes because I'd never say those things unless I was 100% confident that I was right. (and I probably never would be.) Your examples do illustrate that I am quite slow to externally react in many situations.
Laraine wrote:
The hallmark of the melancholic is that they do feel very deeply and intensely--but it grows over time: the initial reaction is slow, but then you start mulling it over, debating in your mind, and the reaction grows in intensity, until you might end up being rather upset over the whole thing. |
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OK. Here is where I get stuck on the quickness of response thing. I may not speak my thoughts in groups that I am not comfortable with for a while, but I can have very intense strong reactions quickly. An example. We were gone on vacation for a couple weeks and it rained a lot while we were gone. The day we came home our neighbor shows up at the door with what I perceived to be fake concern about my husbands welfare. It became clear to me that she was angry that our lawn was so long and was using offering to help mow it as an excuse to rag on us for being poor homekeepers. I was immediately quite upset. I smiled and told her we'd been gone, and that we were fine. When she left I ranted and agonized about all the neighbors talking about us for hours. I know the extended agony matches meloncholic, but my reaction was quick and intense. Now after almost a week has passed, I've calmed down and realized that she might sincerely have been offering to help us with our lawn, but that is the part that took a while for me to get to. I'm not close to this neighbor, so it's not that I'm comfortable with her. It's this kind of reaction that I'm trying to make sense of. I'm likely to have quite intense internal reactions quickly (even if not expressed externally) and then over a period of time work through them and calm down.
Laraine wrote:
And, of course, impatience can also be caused by one's root sin! |
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Maybe this is the answer. Can you explain this to me a little bit more?
I was thinking about this thread this morning and I started laughing to myself as I remembered this quote about melancholic's from your book, "They are skeptical about what may appear to be simplisitic labels and categories - such as the four temperments." Perhaps there's a reason it's only us melancholics throwing questions at you?
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Laraine Forum Newbie
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 5:43pm | IP Logged
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How do you all do the little yellow boxes with the excerpts??? Anyway: root sin. I can recommend an interesting book by Fr. James McElhone, entitled _Particular Examen: How to Root Out Hidden Faults_, and it discusses several different predominant faults (or "root sins") along with some checklists. One of these is, of course, pride. Pride can cause impatience and anger. There is also the "pride of sensitiveness" which is a particular form of pride--which includes a tendency to misjudge a person's motives and take it personally, etc. A melancholic person may also fear failure (which could be another aspect of pride).
__________________ Laraine Bennett
Bristow, VA
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Elizabeth Founder
Real Learning
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
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Laraine,
PUt [ QUOTE = the speaker's name ] before the quote and then [ /QUOTE ] after the quote. Leave out those spaces. I just put them in so I could tell you what keystrokes to make. If I did it right, it would put the text between those commands in a yellow box! You can click on someone else's post on the upper right hand corner "quote" icon and it will give you these commands at the beginning and end of the entire post. Then, you can edit out what you don't want. Or you can go through the entire post, quoting as you go with both the beginning and end commands. Give it a try and don't worry if you mess up. You can always edit your own post and the ridiculously anal, compulsively orderly, melancholic quote fairy has been known to drop by and fix untidy quoting, too !
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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JennGM Forum Moderator
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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Laraine wrote:
There is also the "pride of sensitiveness" which is a particular form of pride--which includes a tendency to misjudge a person's motives and take it personally, etc. A melancholic person may also fear failure (which could be another aspect of pride). |
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Wow, thanks for this little bit of information. I'll have to find that book. This helps a lot. It's hard to sometimes see pride manifested in its different forms.
__________________ Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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tovlo4801 Forum All-Star
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
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Laraine wrote:
I can recommend an interesting book by Fr. James McElhone, entitled _Particular Examen: How to Root Out Hidden Faults_, and it discusses several different predominant faults (or "root sins") along with some checklists. One of these is, of course, pride. Pride can cause impatience and anger. There is also the "pride of sensitiveness" which is a particular form of pride--which includes a tendency to misjudge a person's motives and take it personally, etc. A melancholic person may also fear failure (which could be another aspect of pride). |
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Laraine,
Thanks so much for the info. I think you hit the nail on the head. I've considered before the kinds of pride you mention as issues for me. Does the book offer ways work through these root sins?
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Willa Forum All-Star
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
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Dear Laraine,
Thanks for all the input. You described my melancholy-phlegmatic reactions well. Yesterday I profiled practically my whole family and it was really interesting how our family dynamics fit into the descriptions and how much we've instinctively conformed ourselves to living with those particular kinds of temperaments. I can see how knowing this information can help me know myself and also understand my dh and children a bit better, and gain a bit of confidence in how to help them "become who they are."
Richelle's comment about all your inquisitors being melancholics made me LOL since yesterday I reread your book, profiled my whole family, reread Fr Hock's book this morning and then had to put the brakes on, realizing how obsessive I was being trying to turn this whole subject inside out and relate it to EVERYTHING -- I had to redirect and spend the day cleaning house and hanging out with the kids before I drove myself insane
NOW -- my question, but I'm not sure it's even answerable, really. Or maybe I can answer it by writing it out. You mentioned in your book that probably Jesus had the perfections of all four temperaments and that strikes me as being true. How though does that translate to what we as limited humans ought to do and how we work with our own temperaments and that of our childrens'??
I can see that there are certain faults and sins associated with certain temperaments and we would want to mortify and eliminate those. But beyond that, do we focus on strengthening our "natural" temperamental strengths, or developing strengths outside our temperaments? Or a bit of both?
What is the ideal? In the broadest terms, what are we trying to DO by knowing ourselves, beyond just avoiding sins and imperfections? (or maybe that's more than enough already??) I suppose the choleric should learn to be a bit more affective and reflective, the melancholic should work on being more decisive, etc. So my guess is that you can fulfill your temperamental potential by denying it a bit or rounding out the extremes. That would be my guess, partly because of the examples you gave about your phlegmatic pastor friend and others, but I would love to know if I am on or off target.
__________________ AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Willa Forum All-Star
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Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
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tovlo4801 wrote:
My only real sticking point on this assessment is that I think I react quickly to things. I think that I am impatient. A big joke in our house it that I can't make instant mashed potatoes. They always turn out an opaque sloppy mess. I just hate taking the time to really examine directions. |
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Richelle,
I'm exactly the same way with direction-following and I come off on the temperamental tests as mostly melancholy with a bit of phlegmatic. I wonder if we melancholics resist being told what to do, a bit? We are independents, not followers of directions?
I personally used to get SO restless in school, partly the sensory overload that Elizabeth mentioned and partly just having to toe the line, I think, and do things someone else's way. So a similar pattern to the lack of direction-following motivations. Nor can I ever get anything out of reading teacher's manuals or lesson plans -- I've finally had to give up on those, because they always make me feel bored and tense at the same time.
Also, incidentally, I wonder if melancholics get sensory overload easily because of their introversion and that makes them "seem" to react quickly? My second son is classic in this regard, but all my kids are like that a bit. In some ways their "quick" reaction to new things, I feel, is a sign of their true "slowness" because they don't WANT to be pulled into something that they sense will over-stimulate them.
This is just my rambling thoughts and may be way off base, but I'm finding it interesting to think about because I can better see after looking into this exactly why our homeschooling has been an extremely rocky road in some ways and in other ways, quite successful. Obviously, the kind of homeschooling that would work for a choleric or a sanguine, that SOUNDS good to my rational mind, actually works out badly because it doesn't fit my temperament or that of a couple of my kids.
__________________ AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Elizabeth Founder
Real Learning
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Posted: Sept 21 2005 at 5:20am | IP Logged
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amiefriedl wrote:
Ladies,
Here is a link to a protestant site that has one of the better temperaments tests on the web I've seen. The definitions are helpful. I have the Bennett's new book but I haven't read it all yet.
I know what you mean about the initial confusion about which temperement you are. I'm almost even on Choleric-Melancholy, really it depends on which direction the wind is blowing as to which one is the dominant any given day.
Temperament Test |
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I came out much more melancholy than choleric here, though still with a big dash of choleric. I'm really having a hard time figuring out what is the way I was born and what is the result of an extremely dysfunctional childhood. My protective reactions run very, very deep.
Also, I think I know my kids really well but I don't necessarily think I could answer these questions on their behalf. Years ago a Montessori friend of mine pegged my second son as melancholy. Lately, I've been forcing myself to stay up late and do his discussion-related schoolwork with him. I can see how he, like me, needs to be still and quiet and alone with his feelings. And, like me, he must get frustrated with the challenge of meeting that need in a house full of people . I've always wanted a big family and I love having so many children to know and love but it sure is noisy and busy around here .
The first few paragraphs of the description of the melancholic parent in Laraine's book fit me to a TEE. The only thing is that my house is not that tidy, not that smoothly run. I want it to be that way; I know it "should' be that way; I plan and organize and work really hard to get it that way. I think it would be if I only had two children. It might be if I had only girls. But five boys, only two of whom are also melancholic (and one of those is an aberration when it comes to order), drives us frequently into utter disarray. If I were sanguine, it wouldn't faze me, but it drives me nuts. Here's where I think our children are our paths to heaven. If my house were always the way I envision it, I'd have a prety good sense of my own perfection and my ability to accomplish things that are important to me under my own strength. With this many people home all day, if my house looks like larine described, I am certain it was the work of the Holy Spirit. Knowing that I need order and actually, complete tidiness, but knowing that my children naturally will bring messes, I have to learn to balance my natural inclination to order with the relationships that are paramount in our lives. The reality is that big families don't function well if things aren't organized and orderly. On the other hand, I don't want my kids to respond like a friend of mine from a big family did when I asked him what he remembered most about his mom growing up: "She always had a headache and she was always making us wipe the baseboards."
I always thought my need for order came from growing up in a very alcoholic family. I couldn't control anything else, so I'd try to control my environment. Same for my sense of impending doom. When you know that every sober spell will be followed by a drunken tirade, you learn impending doom even when the sun's shining. God knew where I was going to spend the seventeen years of my life, so I guess the temperament He gave me was supposed to help me navigate rough waters from the beginning...very interesting...
I'm still skeptical, but I did get a good chuckle over the fact that melancholics tend to be skeptical of temperaments tests and theories
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth Founder
Real Learning
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Posted: Sept 21 2005 at 7:34am | IP Logged
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I finished reading the book and started thinking about where my children fit. I decided my eldest is choleric-sanguine. Then, I had him take the test linked in this thread. He came up sanguine-choleric but he said he had throuble with some of the questions. We went back through together and I pointed out some observations. He changed just a few and came up choleric-sanguine. Then, he read about his temperament in Laraine's book and agreed wholeheartedly! He even said that he'd taken an online personality quiz before that said he was most like St. Peter, which is what Laraine suggested too.
For me, it was an affirming exercise. After reading about my own type, I was afraid that I might not know my kids as well as I thought since both melancholics and cholerics don't seem strong on relationships. But I keep protesting that I AM strong on relationships. Maybe I'm just strong on relationships in my own home...
Laraine, when you develop the online quiz, it would be really helpful to have a tool for children...
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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tovlo4801 Forum All-Star
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Posted: Sept 21 2005 at 2:03pm | IP Logged
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WJFR wrote:
Also, incidentally, I wonder if melancholics get sensory overload easily because of their introversion and that makes them "seem" to react quickly? My second son is classic in this regard, but all my kids are like that a bit. In some ways their "quick" reaction to new things, I feel, is a sign of their true "slowness" because they don't WANT to be pulled into something that they sense will over-stimulate them. |
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That makes a LOT of sense to me. I think about each of the sorts of situations that I think I react quickly to and that is definitely a driving factor.
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Laraine Forum Newbie
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Posted: Sept 21 2005 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
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Willa wrote:
"Also, incidentally, I wonder if melancholics get sensory overload easily because of their introversion and that makes them "seem" to react quickly? My second son is classic in this regard, but all my kids are like that a bit. In some ways their "quick" reaction to new things, I feel, is a sign of their true "slowness" because they don't WANT to be pulled into something that they sense will over-stimulate them." |
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(as you can see, I can't follow directions!I need help from the quote fairy! ) (ed. note: quote fairy's been here, done that!)Coincidentally, a priest we know (who has studied the temperaments for probably a decade) said the same thing just the other day, with regard to ideas! He said that the reaction is often a "push back" reaction (which may happen nearly instantaneously), because the melancholic person knows instinctively that she needs to process the information or analyze it. It is, sort of, a means of holding the issue at bay, so to speak, pending further analysis. That being said, we do need to remember that these four temperaments are "idealized types"--nobody will fit the description EXACTLY, because each human person is completely unique! But, they do offer us a tool whereby we can zoom in on our potential strengths and weaknesses. We can focus our attention on those areas we might need extra growth in virtue! So, for example, in the relationship arena, each temperament has its own characteristic weakness: the sanguine tends to be superficial, the choleric tends to want to control, the phlegmatic too easily abdicates his own desires, and the melancholic can be overly sensitive. Knowing this, we can examine ourselves more objectively, and ask ourselves if there is something we need to improve on! On the other hand, to look at the strengths in terms of relationships: the choleric initiates, the sanguine is constantly communicating, the phlegmatic is the peace-maker, and the melancholic brings out their depth and commitment. Thinking about it this way, a family with many different temperaments mixing together is a wonderful thing!
__________________ Laraine Bennett
Bristow, VA
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Elizabeth Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005 Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline Posts: 5595
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Posted: Sept 21 2005 at 5:59pm | IP Logged
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Laraine wrote:
Thinking about it this way, a family with many different temperaments mixing together is a wonderful thing!
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WEll that's a good thing because as I'm figuring out my kids, the first three are:
Sanguine with a little Choleric
absolutely phlegmatic
and
Choleric with equal dashes melancholic and sanguine (this is the child I understand least ). Is that even possible to be equal parts melancholic and sanguine. Funny aside: as we were doing the online quiz with him, I checked "argumentative." He burst out, "Arugmentative! Are you kidding? I am NOT argumentative!" I thought my two older ones would die laughing. Mr. Argumentative did NOT think it funny.
__________________ Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005 Location: California
Online Status: Offline Posts: 3881
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Posted: Sept 25 2005 at 4:15am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth,
we have a wide variety here too -- if I'm doing it right:
2 melancholy/cholerics
1 choleric/sanguine -- though I'm not altogether sure here, because the child in question is not really an extravert but shows all the other characteristics?
2 sanguine/phlegmatics
DH sounds like your mystery child -- a choleric/melancholy/sanguine, if there can be such a thing? I feel there are still some puzzles here and maybe I am profiling them wrong, but even this much insight has been helpful.
Also, I really appreciated Laraine's point about temperamental diversity in a family being a good thing. I have been pondering it all week, and it has applied itself to my understanding of homeschooling. I don't have to worry about making my kids into something they are not... or myself... for some reason, that's quite a relief.
Cindy mentioned on another thread this book: The Introvert Advantage -- I am reading it now and it ties in well because it describes the introverted temperament and provides management techniques and ways to look at the positive side which seem quite useful to me.
__________________ AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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