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Jenn Sal
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It seems like every few months, I'm here begging for support to get through the day, week, however long this cycle will go this time! My 6yo daughter is in high gear, again!  It's times like this where I think, "Can I do this home schooling? Should I be home schooling her? Wait! No! The school system is not where the answer is! How do I do this then?" So, here I am, asking for support, prayers, helpful advise on how to get through the day, when you feel as though you're giving this one child all the attention (and it's not always good) and the other children are just waiting for you to finish and be with them.
I'm so tired. 
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Jennifer, Texas
Wife to Mark, Mom to Cora 13,Kade 10, Sarah in Heaven 12/05, Colette 7, Corin 5, & Kieran 2
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stefoodie
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Jenn, I'll be back later, I've got a spirited child of my own. No time to post long yet, so I'm hoping some of the gals will pitch in here, but wanted to tell you I'm praying. I know that feeling of being tired and feeling like you're out of answers.
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stef
mom to five
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LLMom
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Jenn,
Sometimes it helps to have some background. Do you do strict AP with only gentle guidance or do you (and are willing) to try other things? What have you tried (and hasn't worked) before? Just wanting your perspective before answering.
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Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
homeschooling ideas
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Jenn Sal
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We do AP, loving guidance. We have gone through the first step of family counseling by getting a diagnosis. She pushes boundaries and as a family we have to find constructive ways to get through this without loosing tempers. Until we can continue with outside help, I need to find ways to get through every day. This is when people chime in, "You should send her to school to get a break. This way you can re-energize and be a better parent." And I struggle with that. Are they right? Personally, I think it may give me a break, but I don't think it will change anything. In fact, I'm thinking it may may things worse.
I'm looking at me. What can I do to calm down, set a good example and hang in there. Because this does not have a quick fix, so I need tools for the long haul.
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Jennifer, Texas
Wife to Mark, Mom to Cora 13,Kade 10, Sarah in Heaven 12/05, Colette 7, Corin 5, & Kieran 2
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JodieLyn
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First of all, sending her away means TRANSITIONS.. and transitions are horrible terrible very bad things  That means every time she comes home she'd be testing everything to be sure it was the same as it was before.
I'm not quite sure what you're dealing with. But one thing that really helps me is lots and lots of physical exercise.
My children are easy going but high energy. And there are just days I feel like I'm trying to talk to a room full of jack in the boxes.. that's when I send them out to run to the end of the street and back.. more than once if necessary. The physical exertion actually helps them to focus and then as they come back in the door I snag 'em and direct them to whatever.. they're a bit tired so ready to sit.. and they've reached a natural end of the activity so they're more ready to switch gears as well.
We also are involved in sports for as many as are old enough. Sports that involve lots of activity. Lacrosse, soccer, swimming.. Winter is my time off from sports.. and with snow play and shoveling and chopping and carrying wood.. there's a lot of physical activity without needing extra. It takes a lot of my time and energy but it really does help make the rest of the time more productive.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Jenn Sal
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Jodie,
TRANSITION!!!! Yes, I have my daughter run up and down the stairs when she can't go outside. THis helps sometimes.
I just spoke to my daughter and asked her why she is damaging things (broke one of my 4 items of make-up  , tore apart a hair tie and is chewing on things more than usual). She said that she is excited that we are going to visit family in two weeks. I had guessed this, but old ways of dealing with excitment for her isn't cutting it this time. Or at least today.
My husband and I tried to not let her know, but she overheard me talking on the phone. I know that these things can set her off. I know when the day comes to travel, she will be "on"! It's the leading up to that is painful for her. Any advice?
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Jennifer, Texas
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Barbara C.
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My older daughter is a spirited child. To use the positive descriptions from "Raising your Spirited Child" she is dramatic, holding to high standards, enthusiastic and zestful, opinionated and strongly committed to her goals, assertive, selective, and analytical (otherwise known as explosive, demanding, loud, argumentative, stubborn, picky, and whiny). These positive traits can be admirable when tempered with reason, respect, and understanding for others; unfortunately, these are traits that do not come easily for the spirited child in my experience.
I must admit that I don't know how AP handles discipline. While I do certain AP things (nursing, co-sleeping), I've never read up on AP per say. First I would have to ask if you have read "Raising your Spirited Child". Because it talks about a lot of the triggers that can cause an emotional meltdown. Prevention can go a long way to making things run smoother.
There's another book that I think was recommended on here: "Setting Limits with your Strong-willed Child". Basically, with spirited kids you have to be prepared to fight the same battle over and over. Actually you need to be prepared to hear them whine, complain, and defy over and over, but you need to avoid getting engaged. You need clear limits with clear consequences and no room for negotiation, at least in the heat of things. If they can get you arguing or defending back, they think they can change your mind and they will never stop. Sometimes I feel like I am living with a lawyer that is looking for every loop-hole in a contract and willing to argue every single point of law.
As for homeschooling, I don't really think it's ever a good idea to send kids to school just because you can't deal with them. I can understand that there may be times where it is temporarily necessary for the health of the family. But I figure that whatever disciplinary problem you are already having isn't going to disappear by sending them to school; it may hide it from view for a bit, but someone will eventually have to deal with it.
That being said, there are times when sending my oldest to school seems like a great idea....for ME. Six hours of relative peace from the intensity. But then I worry about if it would really best for her. She has always had very good behavior during her various activity classes, but they only last an hour. I would worry that six hours would push her over the edge, and she would start having meltdowns or acting out. And then I think about how unfair it would be to our family if the school got the best hours of her day, and we were stuck with the hours when she was worn out and over-stimulated. Plus, I sometimes find that the more outside excitement she has the more demanding she becomes at home.
My daughter is five and wouldn't be eligible for kindergarten until the fall. We also live in Illinois, which has very liberal homeschooling requirements. But if possible, you may need to re-evaluate how you are homeschooling. You may need to decrease the amount of work she is given or break it down into smaller portions. Like, I know that my daughter can't handle more than about 20 minutes of sit-down work. She needs to be fed before starting, and she needs to have relative quiet.
And like with any kid, there are certain forms of homeschooling that just aren't going to work for them, so knowing your spirited child's learning style is super-important. (Mine does great with educational computer games.) I also find that she works better at certain times of day than others, like within an hour of waking or after dinner. Three to five in the afternoon is her worst time of day, so you couldn't pay me to work with her then.
And I completely understand about your concern that as your "squeaky wheel" your spirited child gets all of the grease, while your other kids are left to fend for themselves. It just doesn't seem fair. I read two things somewhere, though, made a lot of sense to me: "You spend 18 months treating them like they are the center of the universe, and then you spend the next 18 years trying to disabuse them of that notion" and "If your kid is always demanding attention, the odds are that they've already had too much already." I don't know what AP would say, but I have found that the more attention, positive or negative, that my spirited daughter receives the more she demands. So I try to have set amounts of one-on-one time to spend with her (1 30-minute schooling session, 1 30-minute play session), but then she is expected to entertain herself for the most part. If she whines or acts out then she can go to her room. Then I try to take some one-on-one time with my little one, too. And I will admit that I am not above throwing on a 30-minute television show with one while I spend time with the other.
And I can tell you have noticed, too, that there seem to be cycles where the spirit gets out of control more than others. Supposedly all kids go through this a bit as their bodies, brains, and emotions prepare for the next stage of development (usually about six to four months before a birthday), but with super-sensitive spirited kids the experience is more extreme. These may be the times to lessen academic expectations and just focus on consistent routines and disciplinary standards as much as possible.
I know this has been a really long post, and I have thrown a lot out there. I hope you do not for a second think that I have it all together. You will probably notice that I reference a lot of other people's ideas. This is because in my own desperation I've devoured anything that I thought might be helpful. And there are still times when I want to run away from home. I know how much the intensity of a spirited child can just mentally and emotionally wear you down, especially when you think that other people don't understand.
Try the best that you can to focus on her good qualities. I bet she was really good when her siblings were born (that's one transition that spirited children tend to handle very well). And when she is not driving you crazy, there are things about her that you would not trade for anything. Take many deeps breaths. Eat lots of chocolate. And make sure to take care of yourself so that you have the patience and strength to deal with those moments without going crazy.
Believe me, you are not alone. And I know what you mean about how nice it is to have a "diagnosis". The spirited temperament is in the minority, and so it can be very overwhelming when you don't know what you are dealing with. Reading the books I have mentioned have given me lots of tools to get by with.
Good luck.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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JodieLyn
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Some things that seem to help most kids deal with anticipation..
some way of counting down.. a paper chain that let's you take one link off a day until they're gone and it's time to go.. or crossing off days on a calender.
Perhaps have something she could do each day to prepare for going.. maybe crafts that she could take as gifts for people you'll be seeing?
Maybe talking about it more.. letting her know why a certain time was chosen for the visit.. so she has some understanding of why we don't just GO NOW.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Jenn Sal
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Barbara C,
Thank you for the reminder of Raising Your Spirited Child. I bought this book when she was a baby!!! I love this book and just put it back on the shlef three months ago. I'm pulling it back out! I will check into Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child.
Finding the balance between routine and flexability is difficult for ME.  It seems that when I adjust things according to her temperment and get into a new routine, it's time to change again. I have to get it in MY head that this IS the routine!
I found it funny when you said that her daughter is like a lawyer. I often say to my daughter, maybe you will be a lawyer who will be able to fight to make abortion illegal! She just LOVES that idea! 
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Jennifer, Texas
Wife to Mark, Mom to Cora 13,Kade 10, Sarah in Heaven 12/05, Colette 7, Corin 5, & Kieran 2
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Jenn Sal
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Jodie,
Thank you for the count-down idea! I will try that for a few days to see if it helps or...makes the anticipation worse! Never know until you try!
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Jennifer, Texas
Wife to Mark, Mom to Cora 13,Kade 10, Sarah in Heaven 12/05, Colette 7, Corin 5, & Kieran 2
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guitarnan
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Jennifer,
Just so you know...my ds was so totally spirited, he was the Spirited Kid Poster Boy. I bought a copy of RYSC for every single teacher he had in Catholic school.
Now he is a responsible, moral teen who has a strong sense of right and wrong, and of justice. He's very devout. He's good with younger kids. He still has strong emotions, but he can control them. He's still learning at home with us...at his own request.
There is hope, really and truly.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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SallyT
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I second what Nancy says about those spirited kids -- our oldest was honestly a trial to live with for a long, long time. She had a hair trigger -- any tiny transition or sensory irritation could send her into orbit at a second's notice, and there was no getting her back for hours and hours. She's 14 now, and reading Nancy's description of her son, I found myself nodding emphatically, because she could be describing my daughter today. She is wonderful company, has a strong moral sense, is very responsible, very devout, wonderful with younger siblings and other kids -- all that over-the-top energy and strong-mindedness has finally found some maturity to go with it.
I will say that school would very likely NOT improve your life. Our daughter did go to school for four years, and when she was six, our afternoons were one long tantrum. She was very good at school -- maybe too good -- but once she was walking home with me, she could and did fall apart. I have many memories of trudging home with her trailing behind me, screaming -- I'm sure passersby wondered what I could possibly be doing to that poor child. Mornings were pretty awful, too, now that I think of it.
When we brought her home, at 9, her behavior did not change overnight by any means, but gradually, with maturity and absent the pressures of school, which were enormous for someone as introverted as she was and is, she began to improve, and now it's hard to remember that she was ever not easy to live with. I do think that school exacerbated all her "difficulty factors" (I also, despite its less-positive-sounding title, really like The Difficult Child, by Stanley Turecki), and whatever window of peaceful time I had during the day was not worth the toll it all took on her and on our family, which was dominated by her moods.
Anyway, as Nancy says, there is hope. Really. Truly. The day will come when you look at that child and it will seem impossible to you that you ever even dreamed of tearing your hair out over her.
Sally
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Cheryl
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This is a great thread. I have a ds 7 who is very spirited some days. It's not everyday, but on the days he is, it wipes me out. I have had a few days already this year when I have thought that he might be better off in school. I think he needs more structure than the rest of the family needs. Do you think your spirited dc need structure and if you do, how do you provide it in your home?
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Cheryl
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dawn2006
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"If your kid is always demanding attention, the odds are that they've already had too much already."
OR..that they haven't had enough attention of the right kind. Something I've been experimenting with 'round here that has worked well is to give the kids attention, on their level, before they've asked for it. I play with them or just sit by them while they play or whatever until they've had enough of me, so to speak. I do this before they've asked for my attention. Then they seem to be filled up and go off alone for a long stretch.
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Dawn Farias | wife to Ariel | mom to Gabriel 9, Daniel 7, Elizabeth 5, and Michael 3 | blogger at Be Absorbed | native Texan but currently living near Seattle
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Jenn Sal
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Thank you for the support, everyone!
Nancy & Sally, I really appreciate your insight with your older spirited children. You can really spread hope since you have seen it go full circle! I keep telling myself that maybe around eight or nine she will have a leap in growth that will help her to handle things in a more appropriate way. Until then, I have to be consistant in my parenting, hopeful and patient!
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Jennifer, Texas
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Barbara C.
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Dawn, I know what you mean. Sometimes it can be a great preventative measure to give your children, especially spirited ones, the attention before they feel compelled to ask for it.
And Cheryl, spirited kids often, but not always, need more structure. On one hand they may need more structure
to help avoid triggers (hunger, lack of sleep, the unexpected), but they may also have more erratic sleep and hunger patterns. So sometimes it's a delicate balance between structure and over-structure.
The more clear cut and consistent you can make the routines, rules, and expectations, the better it often is for the child to transition and less draining for you. As Jennifer and I noted, spirited children try to argue and push boundaries constantly, even constant boundaries. But if things are more clear cut with little to no wiggle room, it is easier as the parent to stand your ground and not be overwhelmed or drawn into the argument. (This is true of parenting in general. The difference is that spirited children have a harder time accepting the boundaries than non-spirited. And sadly the methods that work so well to train unquestioning obedience in non-spirited children may break a spirited-child's spirit rather than reigning it in.)
Structure at our house includes set bedtimes and wake-up times (although adapted to a later time than most would consider because it fits her natural rhythms better). And while we don't have a to-the-minute schedule, we try to have a general routine. We don't do set breakfast or lunch (she wakes up ravenous one day and not hungry for two hours after waking the next and I choose not to make a battle of it), but we have dinner together and roughly the same time every night. Our days also tend to be fairly consistent because we only have one vehicle, which my husband takes to work. So we aren't doing many errands or social outings during the week. Usually these things are resigned for the late afternoon, after Daddy gets home, so there is plenty of time to prepare her for the transition.
And my secret weapon for survival is...Granny's house. Every Sunday the kids go to Granny's house. It gives me a break and time to spend with my husband (and grocery shopping). My younger daughter has fun, but it gives my spirited daughter a chance to blow off some steam because my MIL is more indulgent than I am. And because my MIL doesn't live with the outbursts, she has more patience in dealing with them. 
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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deselmsfam
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I am really new to this site, so I don't know what you've gone through before... But, I have two very different spirited children, one extrovert, one introvert. :) Is there something in particular right now that is testing you? For us, like another poster mentioned, sometimes we need a bit more structure. We can't do any long breaks from homeschooling because they both get a little wild and can't comtrol themselves. Or if you can't get through school each day, I know of a mom who had her child do math while jumping on their trampoline. It helped let the kiddo use up some energy, while they got their school done. If it is just an in general I'm exhausted and I'm not sure if I can do it, try to remember that if you were not homeschooling your dd would still be having the same issues, if not even more issues. You understand her in a way that no teacher can. You could be now having to deal with taking her to and from school, hoping her teacher understands her enough, conferences, homework. Then simply all the transitions in a day would likely make it harder. Try to remember also, this too shall pass.
Blessings,
Beth
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Servant2theKing
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I haven't been able to read all the comments on this thread, but would like to share one particular thing that has helped immensely in dealing with spirited children...taking on Godly parental authority and wearing it like a loose-fitted cloak of armour. We as parents have authority from the Lord that we are called to use in godly and loving ways in raising the children He has entrusted to us. However, we often allow other "authorities" in the world to rob us of our God-given role as the foremost authorities in our own childrens' lives and we bow to the whims and opinions of all the so-called expert authorities out there. Fr. John Hardon SJ used to say that parents are the only ones who are sacramentally graced for raising their own children, through Holy Matrimony. When we draw on the grace of Matrimony and wear our authority with loving and gentle strength, high-spirited or strong-willed children actually feel more safe and secure, knowing that their parents, like God, will help keep them from getting out of control. Children really do thrive on healthy boundaries and consistency, and they are grateful when parents act like parents by representing the Lord to them through grace-filled discipline/disciple-ing. Taking a genuine interest in their children as unique and precious children of God and maintaining true relationships with one another, parents can better exercise healthy authority that helps guide their children into adulthood and eventually eternity! Children can sense when we are insecure in our parenting and that can add to acting out or testing and pushing limits. Prayer is one of the most powerful tools that can assist us in maintaining Christlike authority with our dear children. There have been many days when I have felt like our Lord when He commanded the evil spirits to flee from the demoniac...praying daily over our children can help keep the "demons" at bay :)
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Jenn Sal
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Servant2theKing wrote:
| There have been many days when I have felt like our Lord when He commanded the evil spirits to flee from the demoniac...praying daily over our children can help keep the "demons" at bay :) |
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This is both funny and serious! I often feel as though evil is at my daughters heels. My husband recently started blessing our children with holy water before they go to bed and we say the Guardian Angel prayer every morning for some "extra" help!
Since I first posted, hope has revealed itself once again! We made a paper chain with the countdown to the trip...Thank you, Jodie! And I have pulled from Raising Your Spirited Child. I have also gained some strength from all of the 4Real support. She is having better days again.  So am I!
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Jennifer, Texas
Wife to Mark, Mom to Cora 13,Kade 10, Sarah in Heaven 12/05, Colette 7, Corin 5, & Kieran 2
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Jenn Sal
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deselmsfam wrote:
Try to remember also, this too shall pass.
Blessings,
Beth |
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Beth,
I can't tell you how many times I repeat this to myself!
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Jennifer, Texas
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: Spirited Child Help...Again!
