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Martha
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 8:25am | IP Logged
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Maddie - hbp = high blood pressure 
For others, I think that it's okay to be honest about the hardship of NFP. In fact, I think it's a good thing. Better they fully understand than finally do it and feel like failures because it isn't as easy and joyful an experience as touted so often.
Rather be honest and sincere. Yes, intimacy is important. And I highly disagree that it's only so important for men. Women may express it different, but many women also feel rejected while using NFP. They are both seeking and scared of losing intimacy. That very private unspoken bond that should not just be about sex.
To a couple who relies strongly on sex to maintain this intimacy, they are going to feel a serious void when using NFP. They are going to feel like they are alone and frustrated and angry that the church isn't allowing them to use methods where they wouldn't feel like that. sufferring has value, but most of us aren't too eager to go looking for it, kwim? 
My point still stands. FEAR should not be the motivating factor in non emergency medical decisions or in how we follow God. It may be that what this woman really needs is to know that her dh understands the seriousness of her fear and together they work through ways to combat it. (blood pressure meds and so forth)
A woman is not going to feel attracted to a man who discards her feelings, founded or not. The man feels rejected. The woman gets angry about his petty sex urges (as she may view them) because he should care more about her health and feelings. The man gets angry because she doesn't value his needs. They both feel like NFp is killing their intimacy and bonds. And a vicious cycle begins to brew that really doesn't have anything to do with NFP that leads them to think they have to "do" something to end the cycle and the easiest thing appears to be BC/sterilization. (It's not, but it can appear that way.)
So discuss NFP honestly and frankly with this dear woman. Encourage them in it while sympathizing with the very real hardship of it. And she may get angry about it. It's hard and getting a tubal seems easier to her fearful heart. You would be surprised how just having someone validate that it's okay to be scared AND not get a tubal may help.
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Martha
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LisaR
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 8:57am | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
A woman is not going to feel attracted to a man who discards her feelings, founded or not. The man feels rejected. The woman gets angry about his petty sex urges (as she may view them) because he should care more about her health and feelings. The man gets angry because she doesn't value his needs. They both feel like NFp is killing their intimacy and bonds. And a vicious cycle begins to brew that really doesn't have anything to do with NFP that leads them to think they have to "do" something to end the cycle and the easiest thing appears to be BC/sterilization. (It's not, but it can appear that way.)
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This is SO TRUE!! and then NFP gets the "Blame" .
The most important step has already been taken here: recognizing the struggle that is so real and painful for many, and offering support to those men and women. My dh talks about this for his job - so is very comfortable approaching a man who is struggling and speaking frankly with him. but most men are not. We as women are usually a bit more chatty and open, and a man, with his outside work and more involement with the "world" can just crumble or cave I think a bit more rapidly.
Offering a book is nice, but nothing can replace being present to a friend in his/her struggles. Even if the "worst" choice is made, there are many many beautiful stories of couples who have "righted the wrong" through confession and for some living a periodically chaste life even though sterilized, or even through seeking reversal. the important thing is to stay with these couples through the long haul.
ok, I am off this computer. (at least til afternoon recess! )
I am so grateful for all of you ladies here!
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dh Tim '92
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Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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wwandsprmn
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 2:58pm | IP Logged
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ICAM
NFP gets blamed when the truth is there are two people contributing to a situation that might have other deep roots.
We experienced a major shift in our marriage when I made the decision to make myself available physically to my husband even if I am not in the mood, irritated or tired.
This was not a one sided deal. The first time I consciously chose this, I did so prayerfully and did not tell him. I was so happy to make the sacrifice for my husband, and to be selfless in that moment. The next day I shared with him that out of love for him I was going to truly try to be available in that way. I asked him to please be a good steward of this offering and to consider any circumstances that I might share beforehand - being tired, not feeling well, a lingering disagreement, etc. But that ultimately if he needed me that way I would lovingly welcome him.
He has never once abused that gift. If I am tired or something else, I need only share that with him in a constructive way. Not as nagging, complaining, accusing, or blaming. Oftentimes he pursues me anyway and tries to woo me...it's very sweet! Maybe with a bath, while he puts the kids to bed, maybe with a glass of wine and a foot rub. But if he can see my hesitancy is genuine he doesn't push or pout.
I suppose our situation is different in that I have a very strong desire and initiate our intimacy at least half the time or more. I enjoy romancing him. I never feel more like myself, more like a woman than when I am with him. I love feeling beautiful, soft, loving, sexy, and alluring. We both benefit and the Grace that is rained upon our marriage as a result of the frequent renewal of the sign of our sacrament of marriage is more powerful than I can describe. It truly sustains us. It's why we are still deeply, and passionately in love.
If a woman's very life hangs in the balance and her husband truly cares more about his "need" well there are much deeper problems in that marriage than NFP and they need lots of support and prayer.
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Dawnie
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Hey Maddie,
I was poking around on SaraP's website and found this article that addresses your original question.
Medical "Exceptions"
I don't know if you still need it or not, but I thought she explained the Church's teaching very well.
Hope that help,
Dawn
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Maddie
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| Posted: Jan 19 2008 at 1:28am | IP Logged
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SaraP said~
Of course it can be hard to objectively consider the morality of what a doctor tells us is necessary to protect our own or our spouse's health or life, particularly when the alternative requires a great deal of faith and self-sacrifice, but a simple way to determine whether a proposed treatment that impacts a woman's fertility is morally acceptable or not is to consider whether the same treatment would be necessary for a single or celibate woman. If the answer is no, then the proposed drug or procedure is immoral.
That is an excellent way to analyze if a procedure is morally acceptable, very simple and straightforward. I need that.
SaraP said~
This is can be very difficult to accept because few of us have really been trained to actually put our lives on the line out of obedience to the God. Remember, though, that Christ has told us in no uncertain terms that we must take up our crosses be crucified along with Him if we are to join Him in paradise and that every one of us is called to the heroic virtue of sainthood. Refusing sterilization or contraception when a couple has a truly life-or-death reason to avoid pregnancy is unquestionably an act of heroic virtue in this day and age and so it should be no surprise that the temptation to do what the world tells us is "reasonable" can be very strong in this situation.
WOW!
Thank you. Dawn, for sharing the link!
I hope I'll get an opportunity to share it with her. Her heart is very hard right now. I was able to visit with her recently and as I held my wee one in my arms(4 months) she would make comments to me and to HER OWN CHILDREN like, "No more babies for me, I'm not made for it!" I winced because my children were around and baffled by a Catholic h/s mom not wanting more and sad for her children. Her heart is so hard that I really felt then was not the time to bring up what I have learned, thanks to all of you.
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PDyer
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| Posted: Jan 19 2008 at 10:26am | IP Logged
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Maddie wrote:
| she would make comments to me and to HER OWN CHILDREN like, "No more babies for me, I'm not made for it!" |
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I feel there's something else underlying this statement. I don’t think she’s saying she’s not open to more children; I think she’s expressing her anguish with the idea God’s plan for her may not include the gift of more children.
To me, this statement speaks of a woman in tremendous pain.
I think she is struggling so hard. I’ve been living with this for years, and I still weep in anguish, despite my joy, when I hold a newborn or when I witness a baptism.
Please help love her through this – it is a very, very lonely walk.
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LisaR
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yes, the good news is that she is verbalizing. I take any comments like that as sad and hurting comments. The same way I approach the comments from people who say "wow, you have your hands full!" or "Better you than me!" about family size.
I am not "supposed" to have any more due to a few very serious lifelong medical conditions.
Occasionally I have blurted out very strange things while holding a newborn. Thankfully I hope people have understood what it was I was trying to convey.
It is good that you are there for her and continue to visit with her. There is always hope!
I understand about the commnets being made though in front of her kids and yours. I am very sensitive to that, it is sad to have our children hear "negative" comments, and not fair to them, I think.
Patty, you are in my prayers as well.
Peace of Christ,
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
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Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Tubal Ever Allowed?
