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SeaStar
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| Posted: Jan 11 2008 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
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Some wise mom posted here once that her strategy was
"keep it few and keep it new" (maybe Shawnab?).
Her strategy was stripping down the learning area to just the bare bones and rotating items frequently. I believe she said the little ones actually were happy to use things like the ring stackers when there weren't so many other tempting items in their way. I try to keep her strategy in mind.
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Angel
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| Posted: Jan 11 2008 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
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Before I go to bed...
Theresa also asked about my goals. Aside from the big goal that every mother has -- happy, healthy kids growing to be the individuals God created them to be -- some of my specific goals
would be:
Having work for all my kids that engages their brains and helps them grow (necessary for all my input seekers, who seek out destruction and wind themselves up like tops when bored)
For my all my kids to develop habits of attention and order
To encourage independence and nurture self-directed learning
To support their interests
Academically:
My 8 yo dd really needs to do work in geography and math.
My 4 yo has really been into counting and adding lately, and I want to build on that.
I also want to do more language activities with him, but not so that he's going to be totally turned off learning to read. He's only 4 after all.
And I would like to work in geometry for everyone.
That's the ideal, of course. But I would settle for a 10 minute period when everyone was settled down to work!
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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Rebecca
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| Posted: Jan 12 2008 at 12:39am | IP Logged
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Angel wrote:
Anyway, long and short of it -- I'm thinking of selling a lot of my stuff. I just got the maps and I really like those, except my knobs keep coming out  But we have so many other blocks, do we really need the pink tower and brown stair? Or the red rods, especially when I can't put them out because they're constantly used as swords? |
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Angela, I might be in the minority but I think I would opt to put it all away for the time being. If it is taking more time to clean up all the little pieces than the joy/educational benefit that is being derived from it, I would put it all in storage. My initial reaction was to say "Yes, sell it" but perhaps you can put it away for a few months to see if you miss it/your life is better without all of it. You could always choose to sell it later if you want.
I used to have quite a lot of the traditional Montessori materials in my home (pink tower, rods, etc.) and I found that they looked great but never got used. If they did, they were used improperly. My home isn't a Montessori classroom. It is a busy place, full of with kids of various ages with different needs that I needed to meet head-on. I wanted a peaceful, orderly environment and the materials were not supporting that goal. I did not have time to police the materials. The mess outweighed the benefit so I sold most of it. I do not regret it a year later. We still have some materials but only a fraction of what I once had. It was just not a good move that I bought it all. I was looking for order but got chaos instead.
I think with the number and ages of littles that you have, sitting on the floor playing, reading and singing to them would be better for their development than trying to teach them to use the Montessori materials and having to clean them up all day long. The children will develop long attention spans simply by playing for long periods with you. Maybe the older kids can work while you are engaged in play with the littles/nursing the baby. You mentioned that your husband would like the DR to be a DR again, to be used for its intended function. That would be a nice surprise for him, IMO. You could still practice Montessori practical life skills in the kitchen, allowing the kids to clean, cook and work with tools. You can teach them order by being diligent to tidy up blocks, cars or trains after you all are done playing, by having them sort blocks, silverware, etc. I don't think it is necessary (or even beneficial sometimes) to own all of the traditional materials. The materials are a means to an end as I see it.
Anyhow, I will be praying for you and want you to know that you are doing a great important job mothering your children. Hang in there!
Love,
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 12 2008 at 7:59am | IP Logged
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As someone who is having a lot of success with the Montessori materials and methods, I actually agree with Rebecca.
If they were not working for me, and were creating more chaos rather than bringing order to my environment, I would sell them in a flash.
In my previous posts I have offered some suggestions on how you might try to make it work in your home because it seemed from your post that you still saw a benefit to the materials and wanted to keep trying.
But if it does get to the point where it just isn't worth it, then by all means walk away with a clean conscience having learned one more way NOT to make a light bulb.
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montessori_lori
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| Posted: Jan 12 2008 at 11:47am | IP Logged
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I would personally not sell the materials right now - it's like getting your hair cut right after having a baby =) You might end up regretting getting rid of the materials.
In a few years, when everyone is older, some of your kids may really get interested in the maps, etc. and if you store them, you'll be able to get them out at the right time.
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Jan 12 2008 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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montessori_lori wrote:
I would personally not sell the materials right now - it's like getting your hair cut right after having a baby =) You might end up regretting getting rid of the materials.
In a few years, when everyone is older, some of your kids may really get interested in the maps, etc. and if you store them, you'll be able to get them out at the right time. |
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Ditto that, definitely, particularly if you can store them neatly out of the way. GREAT analogy, Lori!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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AndreaG
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| Posted: Jan 12 2008 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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I also agree with packing up the materials- I have used montessori materials on and off over my last 5 years of homeschooling, first trimester of pregnancy and first 9 months of new baby have been some of the "off" times.
I feel like my kids have still been able to derive some great benefits from montessori, despite not using it all the time.
I would like to think that it IS a montessori approach to pack up materials if they aren't helping meet your goals and all the bits and pieces are driving you crazy.
You came up with a great list of goals, now you can decide if the materials you have are meeting those goals or not. Actually this is sounding like decluttering!
Personally I have a set amount of times I will tolerate a material being dumped out or misused before I pack it away, I think it is about 3 times, but probably fewer if I had a new baby. 
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Jan 14 2008 at 6:54am | IP Logged
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I had a long post in my mind, but no time to type it this morning. So, I'll just summarize by saying I agree with all of the above, and we were in a similiar situation. My Montessori Room is now "off limits" and the kids do their school work at the dining room table. I told them that when they are ready to treat the materials and each other with respect, we will resume our Montessori activities. I hated to do it, but I was starting to lose it and school time was becoming anything but productive. Now we do the basics at the table and lots of reading aloud which is going just fine. When I think the kids are able, I will re-open the Montessori room, but definitely start with fewer items on the shelves. (And, I got rid of the number rods which were being used as swords, guns, etc. I'm going to get the shorter rods instead, or just forget them altogether.)
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: Jan 14 2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged
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We are done with our morning work now but I wanted to add one thing. While my Montessori room is "off limits" for a while, I still use some of the materials here at the table. For example, my ds's phonics lesson can be done with the sandpaper letters and Math can be done with Cuisenaire rods (our alternative for the bead materials). I just don't let the kids choose their work off the shelf. It's hard though. Today I was noticing that when they were done with their work they all went off to play and watch TV. In the Montessori room, at least I felt really good about their choices. There is no TV and the items they picked off the shelves did not include army guys or Polly Pockets. Not that these things are bad, but the Montessori works are so much better. Hopefully this wont last long.
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Becky
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ShawnaB
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| Posted: Jan 14 2008 at 7:19pm | IP Logged
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Wow, this thread is just so, so good for me right now!
Angela, just wanted to say that what you described in your initial post...about the chaos and mess and noise...ditto girl! You described our scene to a tee. Except in our scene, mom also loses her cool and yells at everyone.  Over the very extended Christmas break that I gave us all (we basically took off all of Advent), I've done some serious reflection, rethinking, and reorganizing.
I feel like I have been trying to "force" the Montessori thing for almost a year now with my 4 yr old dd and toddlers. The wise words from Meredith, Elizabeth, Rebecca, Theresa, Montessori-Lori, and so many others of you are like healing balm to my anxious heart. I have also felt like a "Montessori Loser", and its because my expectations have been quite unrealistic and I've had to adjust. My little ones, the 2 year olds and the now just-turned 5 year old, still have "Mat time" during the day, for about 1/2 hour. That is the ONLY time the materials are available. And few of my materials are truly "Montessori". Rather, I make trays of activities and manipulatives that I know they will enjoy and benefit from. Dd5 is presented new things as I add them when the little ones are elsewhere occupied. And, I never turn my back on the 2 year olds during their mat time. I sit on the floor with them, work the puzzles and manipulatives with them, and make sure they use the items correctly and put them back. It is the ONLY way I have found that doesn't result in total chaos.
After our mat time, I usually do a "creative" preschool activity with the 3...this is when I bring out play dough, the rice bin, water paints, bingo markers, wash tubs to wash dishes or dollies, droppers or water work, puppets, flannel board stories, etc. I participate with them, and we do ONE activity, and then put it away. Today we all did playdough and then colored with markers. It was much better. There was much less free choice, but definitely more peace. They are free to wander away and play with the reasonable assortment of available toys anytime they don't want to do the activity.
Then I strapped them into their highchairs with a snack and Signing Time DVD while I worked with the older two. Its a far cry from what I envisioned for Montessori at home, but its working.
Angela, I have a dear, dear, grandma-like friend down the street who takes my two year olds to her house for a few hours each week. That's when I really focus on my older ones. It was the best "preschool-like" solution for us...not really preschool, but still providing some much needed quiet for my older kids. Hiring her is also more affordable than preschool would be, and in my opinion, a much more loving and natural environment.
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montessori_lori
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 9:36am | IP Logged
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I've been thinking a lot about this thread (and other similar blog posts I've seen over the past few months). It's obviously very difficult to implement Montessori in the home (I have found this to be true in my home too).
When I talk to people about what we're doing at my house, I tend to say that we're "homeschooling using Montessori materials" (with the emphasis on "homeschooling"). In other words, we're not duplicating an actual Montessori program at home. I'm missing too many things to call it "Montessori". I don't have the requisite number of kids, the right age ranges, the full complement of materials, the long work cycle, etc.
Rather than seeing that as a failure (which is what I did at first), I now see it as a positive thing. I don't have to hold myself to some (unachievable) standard of "Montessori" at home since I now see that homeschooling with Montessori is very different.
Homeschooling with Montessori elementary materials is actually much easier than the preschool level. In preschool Montessori, precision in the presentation is of utmost importance. But it is SO hard to do this at home. And it's hard to give kids the long stretches of quiet concentration required in preschool Montessori.
In elementary Montessori, the emphasis of the materials shift from precision of movement to information. Almost any subject can be "montessori-fied" and made into nomenclature cards, etc. It's also much easier to make elementary materials, which are almost all printed and not wooden like in preschool.
Is there any part of preschool Montessori that does work at home? I would say the Practical Life activities work well, since they are a natural fit in the home, as well as a Montessori approach to arts and crafts (that just means putting out various supplies in an organized fashion so kids that self-direct their own art projects). Some language and math activities fit in well with homeschooling. The sandpaper letters and numbers come to mind.
Also, many cultural activities fit in nicely, especially those that are free-form or can be tailored to specific situations. Other than that, I think trying to use Montessori preschool stuff in the home (the sensorial and math materials esp.) is very, very difficult. Therefore, if you try it and don't succeed, the problem is not with you or with the Montessori method, simply with the difficulties inherent in transferring the Montessori method to a home environment.
I've been working on a blog post about homeschooling with Montessori (sort of a "tell-all" that answers common questions I get asked all the time). I plan on posting it this next Monday. I will be keeping in mind the concerns and issues raised in this thread, and if anyone has any other thoughts or comments, please post them here or email me at montessoriforeveryone@gmail.com.
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ShawnaB
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
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Lori, I look forward to reading that post! I really relate to all that you just wrote here. Except that I would say that in our house, we are "homeschooling using some Montessori methods with non-Montessori materials!" which is probably an oxymoron, since isn't Montessori all about Montessori materials?? 
This has been a great thread!Angela, thanks for being so real. I think it has been a blessing to many of us!
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Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 9:50pm | IP Logged
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Right. We need to make sure we use Montessori methods and materials as adaptable tools, using them in a way that suits our own particular families,the same way we would any other curriculum.
If we are attracted to and use CM methods, for example, but certain aspects (such as narration or dictation) just are not working for our families, then would we think of ourselves as failures? No, more likely we would just let it go and consider ourselves "eclectic." Same goes for any educational method:unschooling, unit-studies, or classical ed (though I think many classical homeschoolers have the same sort of tendencies to beat themselves up over perceived failures as us Montessorians).
The thing is to appreciate,understand, make use of, but not become a slave to any educational philosphy. They all have beauty and truth to them. But they all also have flaws and limitations. And as much as we may admire it, a philosophy is only as good as its results.
We know the Good Lord made us all differently.What works in my home may not work in someone else's. Heck, it may not even work in mine a little while down the road!
For instance, I find it funny that Lori mentions sensorial and math as being the two areas she thinks are difficult to use at home, as those are exactly the two areas in which we are finding the most success! So even among us using Montessori successfully, there are major differences. And certainly there will be major differences in our homes from Montessori classrooms, as well there should be!
I am not sure what my point is, but I hope at least I can get across that whatever we take from our experience with Montessori education, it shouldn't be guilt.
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montessori_lori
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 10:43pm | IP Logged
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I singled out sensorial and math for two reasons (and I was speaking specifically of preschool sensorial and math at that point, not elementary, if I didn't make that clear):
1. The cost of the wooden sensorial and math materials is quite high, even from discount Montessori dealers. Many people can't afford to buy those for the home, and for lots of them, there's no way to make a handmade acceptable substitute.
2. They require specific, multi-step presentations. Some people are able to get the info they need in order to understand how they're used and how to present them correctly. Many people are not able to do that, or the logistics of their home classroom do not allow them to have the time to do it correctly (and time for the child to use them correctly).
Elementary has no sensorial section, and the math materials are quite usable (and make-able) at home, so I would consider that to support my statement "elementary Montessori is easier to do at home than preschool".
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 11:55pm | IP Logged
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Sorry if I misunderstood. But really my point was just that what works in one home won't necessarily work in another, and vice versa, be it sensorial, math, language, culture, whatever.
I also agree that elementary is easier to do than pre-school. I can't wait until my dd can read... my life will be so much easier!LOL!
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montessori_lori
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| Posted: Jan 16 2008 at 12:06am | IP Logged
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Yes, it's definitely true that what works in one home might not in another, and vice versa. That's why it's nice that everyone can tailor-make their homeschooling experience to fit their own needs.
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Fe2h2o
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| Posted: Jan 16 2008 at 1:24am | IP Logged
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I just wanted to say that I've found this a really interesting and helpful conversation. I'm just beginning to use some home-made materials with Puggle, and this is a timely reminder to pay attention to what I'm choosing to make and why, rather than simply going for completion (a definite tendency:-( )
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Angel
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| Posted: Jan 16 2008 at 7:47am | IP Logged
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ShawnaB wrote:
This has been a great thread!Angela, thanks for being so real. I think it has been a blessing to many of us! |
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 Well, I'm just glad someone could get something out of my bad week!
This thread has been enormously helpful to me, and I, too, am looking forward to reading that blog post, Lori. I usually say we're doing "Montessori-inspired" homeschooling, if someone wants "eclectic" broken down. I have to say that it was the math materials that first drew me to Montessori in the first place, but I understand what you mean about math being a double-edged sword in 3-6. Actually, I didn't start my dd using the Montessori math materials until she was already 6, but we were doing a lot of the same things that are done in the 3-6 group, not the 6-9. I find it is a lot more difficult to use them with my 4 yo, who's supposed to be the right age. And after considering it for a while, I do think the classic sensorial stuff -- the pink tower, broad stair -- maybe has a different use in the home, maybe a more relaxed, exploratory and experimental function. I'm actually thinking about putting them out with our other blocks and letting the little ones use them without constantly freaking out. I think maybe the more formal presentations can wait for different materials.
I have a few more thoughts, but I'd better get going. I have to drag my 11 yo out of bed.
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: Montessori Loser?
