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Laura
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Well, my book arrived today from Tan along with a very long letter from the publisher about how the book has caused "so much trouble". He makes no apoligies, and does not even mention the copywrite issue. He simply states that the problems have been solved in the second edition and so the critics need to be quiet! Wow! Now I am really confused because the critics are still very upset and have not been appeased by the second edition.
I have only skimmed the book, but I plan on reading it tonight. She surely does seem to give ALOT of citations. Do any of you have a comment on this issue for or against? I would love to hear from the ladies of this group as I do respect your opinions. I would hate to think that Tan is not doing the right thing, and if they aren't then I am saddened by that fact.
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Laura
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Bridget
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Hi Laura,
I invited Colleen Hammond to speak at our parish last year and we've become friendly and kept in touch since then. So I will just tell you what I know about this from her side of the story.
Colleen did not credit enough of her sources in her first book. She tried to rectify it in the second edition. There is basically one woman who is behind the continued criticism. She has used some odd and hateful tactics. It appears that the critic's mission in life is to sink Colleen professionally. According to Colleen, the authors that she failed to credit were not the ones upset about it.
Colleen made a mistake. It was not intentional. She has tried to do the right thing. I belive in Colleen's integrity and I support her and the work she is doing.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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JennGM
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Interesting about Dressing with Dignity. I hear what you are saying, Bridget, but how can that be unintentional to take direct quotes and not give credit? But I'm glad to hear she's repaired the damage.
Some of you say the book is great, other reviews I hear say it's a little over the top. I keep trying to get a copy through the Catholic Information Center in DC, when my dh goes to visit. Father McCloskey, who formerly ran the Center, had recommended the book. But every time dh goes to get a copy, they don't have it.
So today he asked about it again. The manager said they weren't going to carry it, because it isn't very good. He said that unfortunatley it's the only one of its kind, so that's why people are promoting it. Just another perspective. I think they will order it for me, so I can make my own evaluation.
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Elizabeth
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Jenn,
I have two. Come borrow mine. I'll show the backs of all my doors. No one around here seems to appreciate the new order   .
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bridget
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Honestly, Colleen is not the best writer. Maybe thats why she took so much from other's writings. Her intentions are good and her message is important. Some of it does seem over the top, but so is the culture we are living in.
The guidelines for modest dress in her book are not her own but were issued by the Vatican in the 60's, I think.
The book gives you a lot to think about and makes you realize that immodesty is much more complex than the problem of belly shirts.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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JennGM
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Elizabeth wrote:
Jenn,
I have two. Come borrow mine. I'll show the backs of all my doors. No one around here seems to appreciate the new order . |
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I appreciate them, I really do. I remember looking at houses and seeing one girl's room with the plastic organizer and all her earrings, hair accessories all arranged so nicely. I was in awe...it made quite an impression. That was about 10 years ago. I was waiting for a girl to do the same...now you've inspired me for MY stuff...I'm just looking for the doors now.
I'd love to come if you'll have me. Just let me know!
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Elizabeth
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Bridget wrote:
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The book gives you a lot to think about and makes you realize that immodesty is much more complex than the problem of belly shirts. |
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I agree wholeheartedly, Bridget. Kim and I read the book together (well, she was in Colorado and I was in Virginia, but we read it at the same time). We found that the book not only changed the way we looked at dress but sent us down some other rabbit trails as well. There is some interesting church history intertwined in all this modesty discussion.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Laura
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Well, I just finished reading it and I enjoyed it. It certainly is a book that I would love for my daughter and even my husband and son to read. It was a quick and easy read that offered many opportunities for good discussion topics. I found the writings of our Church Fathers, saints, and visions VERY interesting. In the past I had only read Protestant views, and the Bible so this added to my info. on modesty. Even though some might feel that she is not the best of authors and that she mainly printed the opionions of others (she didn't feel that she had to re-invent the wheel as my dh would put it) I think that she did a fine job of giving credit to those authors. Also, I was told that one did not need the book as all the info in it was on-line. This may be true, but it would take very long to dig up that information for ourselves, and also it is much easier to cuddle up with a book then to read off the internet. Overall, I enjoyed it very much!
Now after reading it I am off to get rid of my skirts with slits... 
I did not feel that her advice was at all over the top.
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Laura
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MicheleQ
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Laura wrote:
| Now after reading it I am off to get rid of my skirts with slits... |
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Why? ANY slit? All slits? What about side slits that aren't "revealing"?
I haven't read the book but I'm curious. 
Blessings!
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Bridget
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Just slits that aren't revealing. Don't worry, Michele, I doubt you have any thigh high slits.
Colleen just points out that your skirt is only as long as the slit. When you walk or sit or move around a lot, it can show quite a bit of leg. When you see yourself in front of a mirror you are standing still. Some women may not realize how much the slit reveals.
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Laura
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Yes, and she was just making the point that slits sometimes mean that your dress is not made with enough material making it too form fitting. She also mentioned that long slits can lead a man's eyes to your legs. I have three dresses with slits. One is a jean skirt with a small slit in the back. I'm keeping that one, but I do prefer my daughter's from lands end that has no slit. It falls prettier. My other one is a slit in the front- gone. And the last one has two large slits on the side...gone.
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Laura
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Servant2theKing
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Patrick wrote:
As a 25 year old male, I'm often frustrated that so many of the girls around me don't know how to cover themselves. I was especially disappointed at how many girls that I go to school with dress inappropriately (I'm going to a graduate school where the main focus is the personal/sexual teachings of JPII and his cohorts). Are there any subtle hints that I can give girls who have problems with this? I know that I'm in a position to say something and to actually have an effect with some of them. A few times in the past, I've complemented girls that pull off something that looks great and that's modest. So, what do y'all think?
Patrick |
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Speaking as a 25 yo young lady, it is refreshing to have a young man want to help ladies be more modest. Here are links to a couple of great articles on modesty. They have some ideas that might help you with what to say to girls. But, it would be great if you could print them up and either give them to girls, or post them in a common area on campus if that is possible.
Here are the links:
Modesty- What does it mean to YOU?
at:
http://www.breathoffreshair.org/bofa_037.htm
and
"Sexy" Fashions....What Do Men Think?
at:
http://www.prolife.com/SexyFashions.htm
Sorry, I don't know how to make the link so you can just click on it to make it go through!
Modesty is a big topic in our day, and I'm so happy to see it addressed. I think helping girls in our society dress with modesty is a Corporal Work of Mercy , Clothing the Naked!
Theses articles are also good to show an older teen reluctant to dress more modestly. It is an "outside source", as one of the mothers put it well, to help them see what effect our dress as women has.
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Cay Gibson
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What's Wrong with This Outfit, Mom?
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Cay Gibson
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Rachel May
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Great! 
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kingvozzo
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Great article, and in the Washington Post! What a surprise there!
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Elizabeth
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Okay,
I am totally freezing! Are jeans really immodest when it's 29 degrees outside at 7 in the morning at a muddy soccer field on the polo grounds in rural Maryland? Really? Do I want to wear my new riding boots there? No...I want to wear flannel-lined jeans, a bulky sweater, sturdy shoes and ski socks! We're all huddled under fleece blankets anyway. Am I offending anyone? Am I the near occasion of anyone's sin? What about when we go to breakfast later in the morning and the coats come off, etc? Then is it a problem?
Patrick? Tim? Are jeans on soccer moms really a problem or are we just talking about slits up to there on 25-year-olds?
I did the skirt thing pretty well through the spring and summer but I'm really missing my flannels now!
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Patrick
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Ya know, those soccer moms...
I really don't know what to tell you. Coming "up north" from Texas is going to get pretty difficult. I've been discovering new forms of clothing that are apparently necessary up here. My girlfriend (from upstate NY) has given me a sweater and scarves, which are articles of clothing that I didn't own until now. I think that wearing a skirt in the winter is complete insanity!
In Love and Responsibility, Wojtyla says that clothing must fit the circumstances (such as bathing suits and whatnot). I'd say that your responsibility is to wear chaste clothing for your purposes. If there isn't a skirt that can fulfill your warmth needs, then it really isn't doing it's job. A man can lust after a woman through pretty much any clothing, your job is just to make it as easy on us as possible.
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Elizabeth
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Patrick wrote:
Ya know, those soccer moms...
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Yea, it's sounds pretty ridiculous...
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Mary G
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Patrick wrote:
In Love and Responsibility, Wojtyla says that clothing must fit the circumstances (such as bathing suits and whatnot). I'd say that your responsibility is to wear chaste clothing for your purposes. If there isn't a skirt that can fulfill your warmth needs, then it really isn't doing it's job. A man can lust after a woman through pretty much any clothing, your job is just to make it as easy on us as possible. |
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Patrick -- well said, well spoken! It's a case of moderation in all things -- not too tight, but not too loose (don't want to look frumpy) -- whether it's jeans, skirts or dresses -- a clingy dress or skirt "reveals" much more than loose shorts or pants and a sweatshirt!
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Well, I'm glad you asked, Elizabeth, because I've been wondering the same thing myself. Its been COLD here and my tights are not cutting it anymore. I use to own flannel slips that really were very warm under a denim jumper style dress, but I don't own any of those jumpers at the moment. Bulky slips look horrible under a skirt (they must add at least 10 lbs!) and I don't have the time to sew slips anyway.
I'm aiming for sweaters that cover my rump to help with the modesty issue with pants, but frankly, I'm not sure what else to do right now!
Brrrrrrrrrrrr....
~Books
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Modern and Modest
