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Elizabeth
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I got them at Eddie Bauer on sale. Haven't looked yet to see what's there for the fall.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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I used to wear dresses and a headcovering (fundamentalist pre Catholic). I did everything I needed to do without a problem...denim fabric is great because they wash up just as well as jeans.
I went back to jeans but was more modest than average when we left Fundamentalism.
Now I want to go back to more dresses. I miss it, and I'm worried about setting the right example for my dd's. I always felt more feminine and even more motherly...hard to explain why, but thats just how I felt.
Is anyone else taller than average? Finding dresses and skirts the right length can be a real problem for me. I can order talls at Eddie Bauer, but I'd like to find more than one resource.
Where do I get the Catholic booklet on modest dressing? All the ones I have are from Mennonite or Fundamental Baptist resources.
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MicheleQ
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I wear skirts or dresses almost all the time as well. I have gone back and forth over the years and agree that skirts are definitely more feminine. I do still own some pants. I really prefer jeans for camping and also have sweats that I wear for working out and cleaning. For a while I thought I shouldn't ever wear pants even for those things but I realized that I was just being silly. Dh does prefer me in skirts or dresses but certainly is fine with pants once in a while.
Elizabeth, what about your girls? Do they ever wear pants or shorts, or have they gone to all dresses too? I'm curious because I have found it's harder for my girls to wear mostly dresses and we still do allow modest shorts or pants for outside play. They do LIKE dresses but they also like to wear pants or shorts sometimes and dh and I are fine with that as long as they are modest. They are required to wear shorts for Irish dance class.
OK, I know I've said this before but I REALLY want to encourage all of you to think about sewing some skirts for yourself. They really are one of the absolute easiest things to make and it's significantly less expensive to make your own (never mind that they are a custom fit, the perfect length and exactly the style and color you prefer  ) If you all lived closer I'd invite you over for a sewing session. I know some of you already know how to sew but it's actually doing it that can be the challenge.
I find my favorite skirt to be the six gore skirt. It's full enough to move around in and sit down on the floor with little ones as well as work around the house but they are also flattering because they aren't bunched at the waist like a regular full skirt might be. A lines can give more fullness too and if you make a darted waistline they are very flattering. Bias cuts are good but the fit on those have to be right or they can be very unflattering in showing every bump and bulge. Knits skirts are great for winter (fleece too - I have 2 of those and I LOVE them) and you get the stretch along with slimming effects.
I don't wear jumpers because by bust size is such that a jumper only makes me look dowdy. Besides they tend to be a pain to nurse in.  Princess seam dresses are the most flattering but again right now they would have to be nursable.
I'm off to go organize my new sewing room. I just moved to the large 3rd floor room from the basement. I am SO excited as it gets great sunlight all day. The basement obviously did not!
God bless!
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Willa
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Michele,
My daughter Clare has learned to make herself an 8-gore skirt (I think from googling that "gore" is like a "panel" and that pretty much over-extends my sewing knowledge!) Anyway, she calls them 8-panel skirts and she got the idea from a couple of modest-attire friends of hers. She likes them for the reasons you mention and says she's hardly ever in a situation where she feels handicapped by a skirt. They look very pretty on her and she can buy florals for summer and heavier fabrics for winter.
Me, I trip on them on the stairs if they are long enough for me to feel comfortable with. The only kind of skirt I feel comfortable in are the kinds that come down almost to my ankles.
In other words, I wear skirts when I think I ought to, like at mass and when going places, but they are not my garment of choice and I have to fight feelings of discomfort when I have them on. I'm trying to get past that. Relaxed fitting jeans and a long-sleeved T shirt is my outfit of choice.
Bookswithtea, my daughter and I are both 5' 8'' so it IS hard to find skirts and dresses to fit. Again, my daughter would agree with Michele -- sewing skirts is not hard, and the skirts end up quite pretty, usually.
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Elizabeth
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I think that Willa's Clare is perfectly lovely and she looks as if she were made for the feminine. She reminds me of a medieval fairy princess.
Michele, my youngest has one pair of capris sent by grandma. Other than that, all she owns are dresses. My older daughter still has some skorts. The other day,I had a conversation about dress in the van, with the whole family. We were on our way to soccer with the boys and Mary Beth was wearing Patrick's shorts. She had on cleats and shinguards and the whole shebang. Her plan was to play on the empty field next to the tournment field. I made a comment about God not wanting girls to dress like boys. She pointed out that it would be ridiculous to wear a skirt with cleats. Good point. So, Paddy wondered, did God not want girls to play sports...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Cay Gibson
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Elizabeth wrote:
| She pointed out that it would be ridiculous to wear a skirt with cleats. Good point. So, Paddy wondered, did God not want girls to play sports... |
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Hmmmm  That's a whole new topic, huh?
Since God fabricated our birthday suits and only gave us fig leaves to wear, it's hard to say what He would think of the subject at hand. 
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MicheleQ
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I made a comment about God not wanting girls to dress like boys. She pointed out that it would be ridiculous to wear a skirt with cleats. Good point. So, Paddy wondered, did God not want girls to play sports... |
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Well I guess the argument could be made that a girl should wear girl shorts and not her brother's.
I don't know the answer. My Mary plays soccer too and not in a skirt. Like you, all this little girl stuff is still relatively new to me after having all these boys for so long.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
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Elizabeth
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MicheleQ wrote:
Well I guess the argument could be made that a girl should wear girl shorts and not her brother's.
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At that age, the team shorts for the girls are exactly the same as the ones for the boys...
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MicheleQ
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Elizabeth wrote:
MicheleQ wrote:
Well I guess the argument could be made that a girl should wear girl shorts and not her brother's.
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At that age, the team shorts for the girls are exactly the same as the ones for the boys... |
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Well, like I said I don't know what the answer is. If you figure it out let me know.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
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MicheleQ
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WJFR wrote:
Michele,
My daughter Clare has learned to make herself an 8-gore skirt (I think from googling that "gore" is like a "panel" and that pretty much over-extends my sewing knowledge!) Anyway, she calls them 8-panel skirts and she got the idea from a couple of modest-attire friends of hers. |
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Ack! Sorry Willa yes panel is the same as gore. I like the 8 panel ones as well but they are a little TOO full for my um...full frame. The six panel ones offer me just enough fullness for good mobility. How does Clare do the waist line? I use a banded waist with a side zipper in mine.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
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Becky Parker
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Several questions here...
On the topic of little girls and dresses...
My dd wears mostly dresses and skirts. She really enjoys dressing in a very feminine sort of way. Every now and then, she'll come out dressed in shorts and a t-shirt (she usually wears shorts under her dresses because she is so active so she has some in her closet). I don't make too much of a deal out of it when she doesn't wear a dress. She's also very head strong and I think if I make a big deal out of it now, she will use it as some sort of rebellion when she is a teen. I'm not sure if that is the right thing or not... any thoughts?
Also,
What do you all do about things like ballet or gymnastics? My dd loves both and has taken both (but at different times). I've explained to her that things like leotards are okay as a sort of "uniform" for these classes (just like a swimming suit for swimming) but when class is over it is important to change. I hope this is not just a compromise.
You'd think that after 4 years of wearing dresses I'd have all this worked out.
One more question... I know aprons were discussed quite some time ago but I have been thinking lately (usually when my husband comes home from work and I look a mess) that I would like to start wearing one. I think it would cut down on the wear and tear my dresses take. I'm looking for them but they are hard to find. I would like the kind that are made to come all the way up, not just stop at the waist, but some make me look really silly as I am somewhat "well endowed"  ! If the top portion (I guess it is called the bib) is too narrow it really accentuates that area that needs no accentuating! Any suggestions?
Becky
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Mary Chris
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Becky Parker wrote:
One more question... I know aprons were discussed quite some time ago but I have been thinking lately (usually when my husband comes home from work and I look a mess) that I would like to start wearing one. I think it would cut down on the wear and tear my dresses take. I'm looking for them but they are hard to find. I would like the kind that are made to come all the way up, not just stop at the waist, but some make me look really silly as I am somewhat "well endowed" ! If the top portion (I guess it is called the bib) is too narrow it really accentuates that area that needs no accentuating! Any suggestions?
Becky |
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Hi Becky,
Here is the link to the apron thread.
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Kathryn UK
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Becky Parker wrote:
What do you all do about things like ballet or gymnastics? My dd loves both and has taken both (but at different times). I've explained to her that things like leotards are okay as a sort of "uniform" for these classes (just like a swimming suit for swimming) but when class is over it is important to change. I hope this is not just a compromise.
Becky |
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It isn't . I just went looking for this passage in answer to the question about girls, shorts and sports, but it answers your question better. This is from Pope John Paul's Love and Responsibility:
"While we are on the subject of dress and its relevance to the problem of modesty and immodesty it is worth drawing attention to the functional significance of differences in attire. There are certain objective situations in which even total nudity of the body is not immodest, since the proper function of nakedness in this context is not to provoke a reaction to the person as an object for enjoyment, and in just the same way the functions of particular forms of attire may vary. Thus, the body may be partially bared for physical labour, for bathing, or for a medical examination. If then we wish to pass a moral judgment on particular forms of dress we have to start from the particular functions which they serve. When a person uses such a form of dress in accordance with its objective function we cannot claim to see anything immodest in it, even if it involves partial nudity. Whereas the use of such a costume outside its proper context is immodest, and is inevitably felt to be so."
With dance and gymnastics, leotards are worn for a proper purpose - for freedom of movement and so that posture and line is clearly visible to student and teacher - not for the purpose of provoking an inappropriate response in others. As you say, they wouldn't be appropriate outside the class.
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Elizabeth
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Thanks Kathryn! I think the same logic could be applied to soccer shorts, don't you?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MicheleQ
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Thanks Kathryn! I think the same logic could be applied to soccer shorts, don't you? |
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I suppose it could/should be. I have read that before and in fact there's even more in JPII's Theology of the Body. Soccer has been a mens' sport for so long I guess I just didn't make the connection.
Still, a girl's ballet outfit (leotard, tutu etc.) is different from a boys, as well as swimsuits. There is a clear difference between the genders there. Heck, even the military has different uniforms for men and women. I guess I would just like to see some bit of difference between the soccer uniforms. Like I said, I'm fine with shorts for certain things but I like them to be feminine.
God bless!
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Elizabeth
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Unfortunately, the girls themselves (particularly the teenaged ones) tend to make them feminine. They roll and clip the sleeves to make them tank tops. They roll shirts from the bottom to bare their bellies. And...I still remember the first time I watched a girl in the middle of the field pull it off entirely to expose the sports bra underneath  --now, that apparel on a hot day at a mid-summer tournament is all too common.
As far as ballet goes, my daughter wears a typical leotard to classes (which are entirely female anyway) and then, for recitals, costumes are purchased with an eye towards modesty. They may not cover as much as street clothes, but they are tasteful in the venue. At another school, my sister-in-law refused to let her daughter dance until adjustments were made in cosutme and song selection. Eventually, the school was accomodating. This year, my nieces are dancing at a different school. We can effect changes, I think.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MicheleQ
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Elizabeth wrote:
| Unfortunately, the girls themselves (particularly the teenaged ones) tend to make them feminine. They roll and clip the sleeves to make them tank tops. They roll shirts from the bottom to bare their bellies. And...I still remember the first time I watched a girl in the middle of the field pull it off entirely to expose the sports bra underneath --now, that apparel on a hot day at a mid-summer tournament is all too common. |
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Ummm...hmmm.. well that's certainly not what I meant by feminine. Sounds more like immodest to me. But the uniforms could be feminine and still relatively modest.
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| We can effect changes, I think. |
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So do I. We left the dance company our daughter was in for similar reasons and are very happy now with the Christian Irish dance school we're with now. Costumes are always modest but tasetful (though such is the nature of Irish dance anyway--except for those "Lord of the Dance" costumes  ).
God bless!
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Patrick
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I can't believe that I read this whole thread. I really appreciate all of your comments on the whole modesty issue. I have to admit that I found a lot of your comments amusing.
As a 25 year old male, I'm often frustrated that so many of the girls around me don't know how to cover themselves. I was especially disappointed at how many girls that I go to school with dress inappropriately (I'm going to a graduate school where the main focus is the personal/sexual teachings of JPII and his cohorts). Are there any subtle hints that I can give girls who have problems with this? I know that I'm in a position to say something and to actually have an effect with some of them. A few times in the past, I've complemented girls that pull off something that looks great and that's modest. So, what do y'all think?
Patrick
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allforjmj
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Well I am reminded of a story about which Pope I can't remember, where he was sitting at a dinner party next to a lady who was dressed immodestly he kept turning away from her and finally he took an apple from a plate of fruit on the table gave it to her and told her "maybe this will open your eyes like it did Eve's" Pretty clever way to get the point across. 
Jackie
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Erica Sanchez
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Patrick wrote:
| Are there any subtle hints that I can give girls who have problems with this? Patrick |
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The very best modesty message that our teen gals at church received was a short and honest explanation from a young man (20 or so) on how the girls' dress, when immodest, affected him. He used a bit of humor, but it was powerful and you could tell he truly cared about the gals. Maybe you don't have to be so subtle, just kind and caring and to the point. Would you ever have the opportunity to address an entire class? That way you wouldn't be singling out one or two gals in particular. You're a great man to care, Patrick!!!
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Modern and Modest
