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gracie4309
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How do you decide the negatives of homeschooling a particular child outweigh the positives? I'm about at the end of my rope with my 13 yr old daughter, and it's impacting the rest of my dc's educations as well as our family atmosphere. She has become very negative toward me, says she doesn't like being homeschooled any longer, and wants to go to middle school. Her attitude toward me is angry, she does as little as possible in the house, yet expects many privileges. She has few friends, although we're involved in a great hs group, and she does Challenge club, DTS, dance, etc.
I've told her she has to make the effort to make friends, but she just sees school as the only place that will happen. She has friends on Facebook (mostly from the old teen forum here), and she would spend most of her time on the internet if we would let her. My husband's solution is to just keep taking away computer, cd, tv, outings, etc. Right now she has lost the computer for a week for sneaking down in the middle of the night and using it.
When I look at other homeschooling families I know, it seems like all of their teens are much more cooperative, and willing to learn, do chores, etc. Our answer on the school issue has consistently been, "No, we believe homeschooling is the best way for you to get an education. "
I'm starting to have my doubts, though, because she is so combative with me, doesn't want to listen, and does absolutely as little writing, math, etc, as possible.
Sorry to rant on, and I hope this isn't too disjointed, but I'm just not sure what is the best thing to do right now. Thanks for any help you might be able to give.
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Grace (wife to Jim, mom of Nick-16, Mary-13, Sam-8, Paul-5, and Patrick-5)
How Sweet The Sound
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JodieLyn
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I would think letting her get her way would only cement in her mind that if she'd difficult enough then she gets what she wants.
She might do more school.. for a time.. but she'll be getting even more influence from outside your home.. and she's already shown that she doesn't want to hold to what you believe so she'll likely grab onto everything that her peers like that you do not.
Is it mainly you that she's disrespecting? or your dh too? does she try and push him as much?
Perhaps you need to set things up so that she only reports to dad about school work. They could work in the evenings or weekends.. and he could give her set amounts to have done when he gets home to go over.. things like that. And let the whole thing be between them with set consequences if she doesn't do the work.. so that you can step out of the picture for a while if you seem to be the main person she's battling.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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folklaur
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IMHO, girls in this age range can be a terror. Of course, there are exceptions, but in general, I think girls of the ages of 12-15 can be HARD. Mine was. She is 18 now. It is better. It may seem like all the other homeschooled girls you know at this age are so different from your daughter (but their Mom probably feels the same as you. Really.)
My dh once said to me, after a particularly emotionally draining day with her, "She is a hormone with legs!" Her mood swings and temperment were EXHAUSTING. (And think how hard it is to be trapped in a body that IS going through all these changes, and is subject to huge hormonally fluxes! Think how we feel after having a baby and all the hormonal changes we go through (and our dh's must endure . Their bodies are doing that too, plus all the regular "teen angst" they create for themselves....
I could have written your post when my daughter was 13.
If you do let her go to school, ask yourself if it will really help. I know, (and this sounds terrible, I know that too!) but sometimes the idea of her just being somewhere else during the day so you can have some peace, or work with other children, or just stay sane, sounds SO good.
But you will be dealing with all the same things after school - plus a whole new level of peer-oriented thinking that she will encounter in school. If she is sneaking around to use the computer now, she may sneak around to do other things if being pressured by "friends" from school, and needing to "prove" herself as not "the homeschooler."
I know this doesn't help much. I'm sorry. 
Each day, start your day by telling yourself things you love about this child. Do not let her bait you into useless arguments. Smother her with love. And be consistent with the rules - have clear consequences.
Praying for you,
~Laura in AZ
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mom3aut1not
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Grace,
I feel for you! Please know that this sort of trouble is actually common. My oldest dd gave me a lot of trouble about going to school at that age. (A *lot*.) There were additional issues as well, but wanting to go to school is not uncommon as is challenging previous boundaries. Part of the latter is growing up -- just like two-year olds, they need to know where the boudaries are and how committed you are to them. They also need to internalize your values in a more mature fashion. I can't say this is automatic, tho' -- *they* have to accept your values. Ultimately, it's her choice, not yours. All you can do is hold firm where it's neccesary (I foungt almost every day over apprppriate clothing for a year and a half with that daughter) and talk to her at a more matrue level than you have. You do have to consider what battles you are willing to fight and yield on the nonessentials. I may not like my oldest (now an adult) dd dressing all in black, but if it's modest, I don't say anything.
Btw, she was later glad she didn't go to school. Many hsed kids have an overly rosy view of school -- the grass is always greener, etc.
I see that she is your oldest dd. A friend of mine from a *big* family (she has fifteen siblings and seventeen children of her own) has talked to me about the special challenges of an oldest dd. When they reach a certain age, daughters usually want to run a household, and this tendency is particularly strong in oldest dd's.They tend to think they are mini-moms and know how to run things better than Mom. (My oldest told me that flat out once. Objectively, it was laughable, but that was how she saw things.)
You will survive. Pray, pick your battles, hold on to a sense of humor (and propportion), and realize that she is growing up and into a woman.
Please excuse any typos as I have "allergy eyes" and I'm having trouble reading my typing.
In Christ,
Deborah
Mom of three adult daughters and one little boy
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stefoodie
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I agree with Laura. It may be a phase. My dd, now 16, went through some really rough times around 10-13. Yikes! We had screaming matches almost every week. I'm embarrassed to say now I probably didn't deal with it the best way I should have. But we've both survived, she's wonderful now and getting better every day (I hope she doesn't revert ).
Prayers going your way.
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stef
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Matilda
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I have nothing to offer since my oldest daughter is only 8, but I just want to say "thank you" to all of you who have been very honest about the struggles you have faced and how you have dealt with them (for better or worse). I know that I might have to face some of these issues in the future. Everyone's child is different, but when difficulties come along it is so helpful to know that we are not alone. Thanks again!
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Charlotte (Matilda)
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with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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Martha
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amen to that matilda!
i think i'd tough it out. maybe work her harder? to me, anyone with enough time to gripe needs to be given something to do. 
but my oldest is only 12, so i'm just as deep in the creek without a paddle as you.
we just don't see any public/private school being able to change those things though. do you really think she's going to want on the internet less or whisle while she cleans the dishes if you send her to school for example?
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Martha
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stefoodie
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I just realized I didn't put any practical advice here. Two things that really helped us:
1. Pray, pray, pray (though I'm sure you already know that). I also asked for help with praying from several people I knew I could trust (my mom, close friends, etc.)
2. Had LOTS of heart-to-heart conversations with her. Some where I revealed my deepest concerns and beliefs with her, so much more than my mom shared with me when I was her age. She's dealing with so many different things than I was when I was her age, so I tried to put myself in her shoes and picture the confusion that she must be having. Always, always, tried to end with a hug and a reassurance that I loved her, always will, no matter what, that growing up is confusing, that it's difficult, but that with God's help we could go through it together. And that if she ever felt she couldn't come to me about something, to remember that Mama Mary and dear Jesus are always ready and waiting to listen. So far it's worked. But of course the job is not over.
Hang in there.
Whoops -- a third thing:
really tried to work on her relationship with her Dad. In our case, karate helped -- because they then developed a common bond that they share to this day. It made for lots of dad-daughter time together, set them up for situations where they had to talk to each other from the heart. It doesn't have to be karate, but maybe something that Dad and daughter can share a common passion for that they could work on together -- a project, woodworking, a trip, something....
just some my ideas here... hth,
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stef
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gracie4309
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JodieLyn wrote:
I would think letting her get her way would only cement in her mind that if she'd difficult enough then she gets what she wants.
She might do more school.. for a time.. but she'll be getting even more influence from outside your home.. and she's already shown that she doesn't want to hold to what you believe so she'll likely grab onto everything that her peers like that you do not. |
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These are the main issues that worry me about sending her to school. Also,
we can't afford Catholic school, and the public schools are not good in our area. But right now her bad attitudes are starting to "rub off" on her younger
brothers. Sometimes she makes fun of me, or other people in front of the boys, and then they start doing it too. After awhile, I sometimes feel like they're ganging up on me. Then I feel like I have very little influence over what we are trying to do for school.
I like the idea of letting her dad take over with the schoolwork, except that with his job he often has to work late, and I foresee that he wouldn't get around to monitoring her work, and we would be back where we started. As it is, he's trying to oversee my oldest ds's Algebra, but often forgets to grade his work or assign more. I will talk to him about it and see what he thinks, though.
I really appreciate prayers and the support and good advice.
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Grace (wife to Jim, mom of Nick-16, Mary-13, Sam-8, Paul-5, and Patrick-5)
How Sweet The Sound
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teachingmyown
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If you put her in school there will only be more to "rub off" on her siblings. Trust me. I don't have a daughter that age yet, but I have a 16 yr old son. I put him in school at a very weak, impulsive moment at the beginning of his freshman year. I was extremely sick with a pregnancy and we were getting ready to move. He hated being homeschooled and I couldn't put up with it anymore.
If I could go back, I would not have done it. I tried to homeschool him again last year, but by that point it was really too late.
You are not alone in this at all. I have been surprised to see the lovely daughters in "good" families turn nasty when they hit this age. I really agree that it is a phase, but it might be a long one and you need to be prepared.
There has been lots of good advice. I just wanted to tell you my experience with "giving in" and let you know it doesn't necessarily make things better. There is less conflict on a daily basis. But I think if I had stood my ground we would have gotten past a lot of that conflict anyway.
You just need to tell her that you are responsible for her soul and you believe that God is calling you to continue homeschooling.
Just one more thing, school, even public school, is not the wrong answer for everyone. I know many families that it has worked well for. We all just need to follow our gut instincts.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Angie Mc
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I can personally vouch for how lovely Laura and Stef's daughters are...and they can vouch for mine...and we all agree that no matter how lovely these young ladies are, this time is a whole lot of work...a WHOLE lot of work. Somedays, I am so tired of "the teen girl thing" that you'll find me in my prayer chair, a blob of exhaustion, crying for direction and relief. Not a pretty picture  . What keeps me hopeful is the example of our friends who have made it through, our faith, and the honest empathy that I wouldn't go back to being 15 for anything in the world.
Here are a few more practical ideas to add to the above, to tide you over until you can discern what God wants for your family:
Have special mother/daughter outings.
Make time for listening...and listening...and listening.
Problem solve together.
Bring in another family member to help (my sister is calling my dd regularly and helping her to sort through some difficulties.)
Be a reality check.
Discuss character issues from a broad as well as personal persective (tell her your own stories, challenges, share family stories.)
Talk about family inclinations (toward entitlement, sloth, alcoholism, whatever.)
Bring her into adult conversation.
Reassure her that what she is going through is normal.
Stick to family values: we are kind in the family...we are not entitled to anything in this family...we strive for excellence in this family.
And...
Find a way to mother her through this difficult time. One day, I realized that I was looking at my dd like she was the enemy  . She wasn't going with the program, making things way harder than they needed to be, treating me like a fool (from my "shocked" perspective,) and gosh darn it we had provided such a good life for her! Well, God blessed me with this thought, "She is a child." Since then, I can get up and do my job every day. I know who the enemy is, and it isn't my dd! My dd is my child...a child trapped in a very adult-like body...a child of two in some areas (some character development issues and math ) and a lovely young woman in others (she is a very good friend, excellent cook, wonderful writer, and more.) No wonder we are both confused and frustrated at times!
Oh, Grace, I hope I didn't just dump on you. I don't tell you that this time is hard in order to discourage you (you already know it is hard!) but rather to reassure you that you are most definitely not alone in your struggles. I'm praying for you and your daugther...will you pray for me and mine? Besides, Laura has promised that this will all be way better at 18, right Laura?  . I'm holding you to it!
Love,
__________________
Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Angie Mc
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Martha wrote:
i think i'd tough it out. maybe work her harder? to me, anyone with enough time to gripe needs to be given something to do.
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Oh Martha, you cracked me up! When I was a kid/teen, I knew not to gripe to my mother. Her answer, which is now family lore, would be, "Gee, we have a toilet that needs cleaning." Those were the good ole days .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Barbara C.
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In his book Homeschooling and the Voyage of Self-DiscoveryDavid Albert has an essay entitled "Flow II: The Teenage Edition". He talks about being approached by parents complaining of attitude changes, lack of motivation, and other things; he says that he always knows that the parent is talking about a child between 12 and 15.
The whole essay, in fact the whole book is marvelous, but he has a very interesting suggestion for dealing with this. He suggests setting the child up with a mentor outside the immediate family. Is there some sort of job or project that the child can undertake under the supervision and tutelage of another capable adult?
I know at thirteen your daughter can't exactly get a job or even volunteer without a parent at many places, but it may be worth looking into. Even a few hours a week might give you all a break. Maybe she could be apprenticed out as an unpaid mother's helper to another family or maybe you have a family friend or relative who could take her to work to do extra filing.
I just thought I would throw that out there as food for thought.
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donnalynn
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I am so relieved it's not just my dd (age 13). She is a lovely young lady most of the time but boy there are days.
DD is 7th grade and this year she had a very close homeschool friend start high school at her local public school. That's been hard and there's been a lot of talk of wanting to go to school...a lot of talks about attitude...
Someone once said to me that she likened her students at around 12 years of age to a stream that goes under water - you have to have a lot of faith that they will "bubble back up again". She talked about how all the work you've put in so far will show it's fruits again later. I try to keep this image in mind on the days when I wonder where my sweet little girl has gone!
We have a friend who has his own little farm and it does her a lot of good to go help out there once in a while - she likes the work - but in general I also think a little extra something that gets them moving physically helps with the sluggishness and moods at this age.
The outdoors, in general, seems to help a lot - she's much more herself after a nice walk or some alone time in the woods.
Barbara's post reminded how much it has helped my dd to have someone outside the family to work with on occasion - a hardy second here!
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Lori B
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We went through this with my oldest- and like others have said, going to school made everything much, much worse. We didn't have a choice in the matter (we moved, she refused to move with us, and in our province a child of 16 can basically do as they like). Long story short, she ended up leaving school without finishing any of her courses, because her poor attitude towards work meant that she was failing everything (even though she is very bright, and tested as gifted when she attended school for grades K-4). She is now living at my parents', working part-time, and completely unsure where to go from here- just as we could have predicted a year ago.
Also, she has become very "worldly" in a way- obsessed with popular television shows, celebrity gossip, etc., things that did not even register with her before her exposure to public school.
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22yod, 16yod (Asperger's), 14yos (dyslexia, APD, ADHD), and 11yod (JXG, glaucoma, legally blind)
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LisaR
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you know, I feel as if I am bucking the trend around here but I know God calls us to be the primary educators of our children. If this is the case, then he will communicate to us the needs of our family and our children, and that can sometimes include allowing others to educate them outside of our home, although we remain the overseers.
I know many families who have had children in academic co-ops part or full time, private school part or full time, after home educating exclusively.
This might actually be what God calls of some of us, some of the time.
Our ds age 14 was wilting as a homeschooler. Academically, Socially,Spiritually, and our family relationship. This year, with him at a Catholic High School everything is going much much better. He likes the external pressure to succeed, he likes the boundaries (it is a very strict school) coming from others in authority besides mom and dad, and he has told us more than once that he likes going to Mass, Adoration and Confession weekly with his peers (which is very common for this age and we are fine with it!!)
I am glad that my dh and I both as parents saw quite a few warning signs with ds, and took it as a "sign" from God that maybe we needed to look into other options.
It was also an eye opener that ds was exposed to (and had to tell on)very hard core p*rn from the other boys closest to him who homeschooled. We are still dealing with the fallout from this. It made us painfully aware that homeschooling is not the blanket answer, nor will it protect our children's innocence. We are grateful to have a very vibrant and orthodox Catholic high school, and to have found more truly like minded parents there...
About facebook, internet, etc. funny but when ds was homeschooled he always felt as if he were missing out and begged to be on the computer alot, and we saw many other homeschool families "cave" on this (hence the experiences above) in an effort to make social compromises for their child.
Now that ds is in school and football, he has NO TIME for computer, etc , and neither do the other boys. They are with eachother so much that there is no desire among his school group of friends to get online. Cell phones are not even allowed in the school, whereas in the homeschool co-op yesterday, all the high school kids were watching Sat night live clips on their phones yesterday!! with the younger sibs right there!! It is a rigorous environment in school but they still get plenty of social with sports and clubs.
this is very long winded. I just wanted to say it is not the end of the world to try school for your child. There does come a time where we should not try to "force" homeschooling to work anymore. and that is ok!! We are seeing great fruit and knowing that we are following God's plan for our particular child.
Praying for you,
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Cindy Mac
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This talk might be just what some people need right now. I can vouch it was a great reminder of the importance of the relationships in our lives. Not a dry eye in the room during this talk, BTW. 
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Cindy - wife to Chris, mommy to my 4 sons!
Kellys Klassroom Korner
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teachingmyown
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Lisa has a lot of good points. There are certainly no guarantees with homeschooling. And there are definitely circumstances where a teen will do better outside the home. I think this is more often true of boys. We had applied to a wonderful boarding school for my son last year. I think it would have done wonders for him. He didn't get in and we were disappointed.
But for the most part I think they are still better off at home unless you have a great alternative.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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Bookswithtea
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Wow. I didn't know that girls could be so hard. My 9th grader has given me more grief in the last 2 years than I ever imagined, and I thought it was boys. Everyone around me says, "What a nice young man!" and all I can think of is, "Hmph...wait till he gets home!" I know, bad attitude, but I'm trying to be honest here. I don't think its gender, I think its age.
There are definitely reasons to move a child to a traditional school environment. Lisa has great ones...a child who thrives with external boundaries, a *boys* school (read The War Against Boys for reasons not to send your child to a co-ed school), and a fabulously Orthodox school option that keeps him tired out with good things and little time to get into trouble (idle hands...).
I would never counsel putting a child in school for the reasons the OP listed, though. These are the kinds of reasons that require drawing a hard line or tough love, or whatever you want to call it, but these kids need to know where the buck stops. We did a lot of simply refusing to respond to the same tired old requests and arguments. When he said, "You are ignoring me!" we'd say, "not you...we are just not discussing this anymore." We did all we could to strengthen the relationships, and we removed him from the room when he became rude or inappropriate toward younger siblings. Things are so much better now than they were a year ago. I am so so glad we didn't put him in school (and we seriously considered it at one point)...not because I am anti-school, but because, for this child, it would have made every negative character trait we were seeing, *worse*. It wouldn't have fixed a thing.
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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LisaR
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I would never counsel putting a child in school for the reasons the OP listed, though. [/QUOTE wrote:
what is OP??
I wanted to add that our relationship, and more importantly ,ds's relation |
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what is OP??
I wanted to add that our relationship, and more importantly ,ds's relationship with Christ, has just flourished in these past months. We can't get him to stop talking!! Literally we talk every night until at least 10:30-11 pm. and then he wants to talk to all the kids until the last second before he leaves!
I had a few years where I was not hearing him at Mass- now, not only are all the responses audible, but he picks up the hymnal and sings!! I am just grateful we have this alternative.
There are so many large families at the school, and he really feels like he "belongs" which is a valid issue with teens!
__________________
Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: when to quit homeschooling
