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CrunchyMom
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Well, for one thing, when God created the world, he also created time. He is outside of time, and therefore, the saints in heaven are as well. So, I don't think that you can get *bogged down* per se by an influx of prayer requests. That is another reason I value their prayer separately from that of my family and friends. My family and friends ARE bogged with life and don't pray perfectly, but the saints in heaven do, and really, that is all they do, lol.
We are all part of the body of Christ, but the saints in heaven are perfectly sanctified and therefore more *perfectly* in union with God, but also, perfectly in union with the entire body of believers.
Mary, as queen of heaven, is *most* perfectly in union with God. Her position is unique. Just like the queens of Israel (who were the mothers, i.e., Bathsheba was queen when Solomon reigned) could ask the king for requests of the people, so can Mary to her son as she did in the wedding at Cana. As a mother, she was the human who knew Christ best, and as our spiritual mother, wants to share that and bring us all to her son. We pray for her intercession, but we also look to her holy example in how to accept God's will and follow His Son.
There is SO much to say, really. I am glad that people are willing to answer your questions, and I can try, but the FULLNESS of the faith in the Catholic church is so very rich, it is quite difficult to summarize them here in a single post. Again, I think a quick read of one of the Scott Hahn books would clarify many things and enable you to ask more specific questions. I'm not discouraging you from asking. I am just not sure that this is the most effective format for understanding the beliefs of the Church. I had so many misconceptions about the Catholic church and what it taught (like worshiping saints versus seeking their intercession). It would take a book to share the foundation of what I learned, which is why I recommend one, lol. JMO.
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CrunchyMom
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ETA: I especially loved studying Catholicism for the life it brought to the Old Testament. Stories about the ark of the covenant and the Tabernacle and eventually the temple in Jerusalem are exciting now that I realize they were prefigurments of MAry (who, like the ark, carried God inside her). The parallels between David dancing before the ark in the joy of God's presence and John the Baptist leaping for joy in Elizabeths womb. It makes all of church history and the history of Israel come alive and mean so much more to me. I appreciate scripture more than ever!
I would, though, if you are seriously interested in understanding Catholicism, focus on the Eucharist. The history of the Jewish traditions of sacrifice, the Passover, and how that plays into Christs words at the last supper and his crucifixion. THAT is the heart of the Catholic church. Once I recognized the gift of the Eucharist, it made Mary and the Saints much less of a stumbling block for me.
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CandaceC
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Thank you, "crunchy mom!"  I am going to check my library for the books mentioned.
I do understand your saying there is SO much to understand that it is difficult to explain on a message board. And I would probably say the same thing if asked about my faith! 
But, I do so appreciate the time you ladies have given me, much food for thought! You have helped me to see in a new light some things that I did not understand. For the most part, I wanted to understand the depth of the study and adoration for Mary and the saints...which I read about on many of your blogs. It has intrigued me so much, but I had not understood it!!
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CandaceC
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Ok, here are the books at my local library by Scott Hahn, do any of these ring a bell? The 2 you all have mentioned are not there.  Would any of these be good? The one about Mary sounds like a maybe?
Letter and Spirit : from written text to living Word in the liturgy / Scott Hahn
Swear to God : the promise and power of the Sacraments
Lord, have mercy : the healing power of confession
First comes love : finding your family in the church and the Trinity
Hail, Holy Queen : the Mother of God in the word of God /
The lamb's supper : the Mass as heaven on Earth
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donnalynn
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Candace -
There is a big difference in Catholic thought between "adoration" and "veneration" - Veneration is given to Mary and the saints. True worship and adoration is reserved for God as expressed in the Holy Trinity.
From other posts it seems like you are getting stuck on the word "to" - even as a little child it was understood that the prayers to Mary and the saints had a different quality than those directed toward God - it is something that I have a hard time putting into words.
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CrunchyMom
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I think all those books would be wonderful. If it is just the Marian idea you want to explore at present, Hail Holy Queen is a nice read--it would definitely give you an understanding of Mary relevant to your situation as a Protestant (since Scott Hahn was himself).
The difference would be that those are entire books about one thing, whereas, the other books mentioned give a more overall picture of Catholic teaching.
I haven't read it, but the book about the sacraments might give an overview.
Of course, given my advice above about the Eucharist as the center of Catholicism, The Lamb's Supper might also be a good choice.
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SusanJ
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Candace,
I haven't read all the Scott Hahn books, but you might like the one about Mary (Hail, Holy Queen). Let's see, mine happens to be on the shelf next to me and it is recommended for Catholics but especially for all Christians who want to discover Mary more fully.
I am a cradle Catholic who "got saved" when I was thirteen, rejected the Catholic Church at fifteen (because I knew more than the priest teaching my confirmation class) and then came back to the Church in college. Mary was a huge stumbling block for me, but I felt the Lord leading me to look at the Catholic church again and the first book I discovered was A Father Who Keeps His Promises by Scott Hahn. This book does what Crunchy Mom recommended: it makes the Old Testament come alive and shows God's covenant work through salvation history. The culmination of the book (and the culmination of our life as Catholic Christians) is the Eucharist. Hahn shows how the Eucharist is the fulfillment of God's covenant throughout Scripture. That was what got me into the church--the certainty that the Church was right about the Eucharist. I still had major hangups about Mary but I decided to trust the Church on all its Marian doctrine. I read Hahn's Hail, Holy Queen several months later and it did help, but mostly I have come to a Marian devotion slowly in my own way as I've grown as a Christian. Some things you need to take on faith and know that God will give us the grace of understanding later.
Anyway, you aren't asking about conversion, but for understanding, and I so appreciate that!
On the saints, though. We don't believe they are omniscient, but since they are in heaven which is outside of time, I think (but can't really describe) that they would hear our prayers differently. It's not as if St. Therese (a really popular saint) is busy all day long listening to petition after petition float up to her and she's getting tired because she never gets to eat or sleep and St. Hedwig (whose feast day was yesterday and is much less-known) just kicks back all day waiting for her annual feast day when us liturgical folks remember to ask her intercession at the dinner table. I'm being tongue-in-cheek, here. But, I don't think "time" is an issue in heaven. Does that make sense? Maybe someone with a better gift for writing can do a better job of this . . .
God Bless,
Susan
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CrunchyMom
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SusanJ wrote:
| On the saints, though. We don't believe they are omniscient, but since they are in heaven which is outside of time, I think (but can't really describe) that they would hear our prayers differently. It's not as if St. Therese (a really popular saint) is busy all day long listening to petition after petition float up to her and she's getting tired because she never gets to eat or sleep and St. Hedwig (whose feast day was yesterday and is much less-known) just kicks back all day waiting for her annual feast day when us liturgical folks remember to ask her intercession at the dinner table. I'm being tongue-in-cheek, here. But, I don't think "time" is an issue in heaven. Does that make sense? Maybe someone with a better gift for writing can do a better job of this . . . |
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Not to mention the countless saints who aren't even formally recognized as such! I doubt they are ever bored either 
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Angie Mc
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SusanJ wrote:
Candace,
I am a cradle Catholic who... rejected the Catholic Church... and then came back to the Church.... Mary was a huge stumbling block for me, but I felt the Lord leading me to look at the Catholic church again and the first book I discovered was... |
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The Fundamentals of Faith: Essays in Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft.
SusanJ wrote:
| I still had major hangups about... |
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what having a relationship with Christ meant, who Mary was and especially how she fit with women today, the saints and their role, life issues, women in the church, and so much more.
SusanJ wrote:
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and her authority to teach through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
as much on the Catholic Church as I could get my hands on to include reading Peter Kreeft, Scott and Kimberly Hahn, Patrick Madrid and other authors from Catholic publishers like Sophia Press and Ignatius Press. Then...I found the CCM/4Real community and...
SusanJ wrote:
mostly I have come to a Marian devotion slowly in my own way as I've grown as a Christian. Some things you need to take on faith and know that God will give us the grace of understanding later.
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By just hanging around the amazing families here, I have oh so gently had my reservations melted away and I have absorbed God's will for me and my family. I'm so grateful.
Candace, you are such a bright light! Thank you for sharing your story with me and for giving me the opportunity to share my story with you...and thank you to Susan J. for giving me my post outline  .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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guitarnan
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Candace,
The beginning part of the Hail Mary prayer comes straight from Scripture...it's what the angel of the Lord said to Mary when he told her of God's plan. The second half of the prayer just asks Mary to pray for us now and, most especially, when we die (as we'll definitely need prayers then).
So, yes, "Hail" is a greeting; more importantly, though, it's the beginning of a Scripture quotation.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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CrunchyMom
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by Peter KreeftOnline Lectures
Not specifically about Catholicism, but thought you might enjoy.
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Barbara C.
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Candace,
"Rome Sweet Home" is probably the easiest of Hahn's books to read and would give you the most overview information. It's really too bad that your library doesn't carry it. I don't if you would have time to sample a few pages at a bookstore or not.
His other books can be pretty thick I will warn you. I found "Hail, Holy Queen" and "Swear to God" very profound but not to bad to get through. Maybe it was my state of mind at the time but I just couldn't get through "Lamb's Supper". (And I'm a total religious studies nerd in general.) Mary is usually the big Protestant stumbling block and the sacraments, especially Eucharist, are at the heart of Catholicism.
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SusanJ
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Oh, I should add. We have Lamb's Supper, too. My dh is a Theology Ph.D and couldn't really get into it. Rome Sweet Home is great--a fun read, and a good overview.
Susan
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isjalu0826
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Candace, do you have Interlibrary Loans in your area? If your own library doesn't have the books you are looking for... Here in my state, you can do a lookup and it will tell you ALL the libraries in the state that have the book and how many copies, and then you can request it and they will deliver it to your local library?
Again, I don't know if this is an option, but I thought I'd throw the idea out?
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CandaceC
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Thanks for all the suggestions ladies! I will check into the interlibrary loan thing. I do my library "shopping" online at the next county over because they have SUCH a better library system (we are in a tiny town) and I have actually never had to check into the interlibrary thing before with the bigger system. I should find out anyway! :)
One more question on reading materials for you...
Is there a link or a book title that could give me a very basic understanding or timeline/historical rundown of where the "traditional" teachings of your church come from? I'm having trouble putting my question into words...but I'm wondering what some things from our "church" today came from - if they all originated in the same place - like "my" church and the Catholic church - and how/when did we become so "segregated."
Thanks again ladies for your sensitivity to me in helping me to understand! You have been a blessing to me! 
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Candace - wife to David since 2000...mommy to Hannah (Feb. 2002), Emily (April 2003) and Caleb (March 2005)
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onemoretracy
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CandaceC wrote:
I guess my questions on the prayer thing are why we would pray to anyone other than the Lord...God, Jesus...I guess I thought of prayer as a sacred conversation that could only take place between me and my Savior. But maybe with the saints it is something different? I'm having a hard time understanding how we could pray to anyone else, like that would be wrong to pray to anyone else. Are there biblical references suggesting we should pray to the saints?
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I think this confusion is that for most Protestants prayer=worship. Catholics do not equate the two. For us, praying is just like aking. I didn't realise this until I was an adult returning to the Church. I had read in historical novels where the character says something like, "Pray tell me where the .... " I think this confusion of the meaning of 'pray' has lead to much heartache between Christian brothers and sisters.
Edited to add:  so sorry this was already answered! That will teach me to read throught the entire thread before posting!
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MaryM
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CandaceC wrote:
| Is there a link or a book title that could give me a very basic understanding or timeline/historical rundown of where the "traditional" teachings of your church come from? |
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Here is a link to a website with a visual timeline of Church history. It's very complete though not a written explanation of the details - definitely an outline. It might not appear to have what you are looking for specifically about teachings. I think I understand where your question is coming from as there is a common misconception that teachings of the Church were invented at particular times during the past 2000 years of history. What the Catholic Church teaches is what it has consistently taught since the time of the apostles and early Church fathers. These teachings were often defined, formalized, or given a new name over the past 2000 years at Church councils or through the Pope teaching ex cathedral ("from the chair" - considered infallible teaching). This was only after there was a heresy, or challenge to, or confusion about the teaching as it had always been understood through time. Then the doctrine would be restated or clearly defined to address the false teachings or confusion of that time. So when someone says the Church teaching of ____ was started ____ years after the time of Christ it is misleading.
Here is an example that I pulled from the Catholic Answers website so I didn't have to rewrite an example myself.
Item: "Transubstantiation proclaimed by Pope Innocent III . . . [A.D.] 1215."
The implication of this is that transubstantiation was not believed until 1215—that it was, indeed, an invention. The facts are otherwise. Transubstantiation is the technical term used to describe what happens when the bread and wine used at Mass are turned into Christ’s actual body and blood. The belief that this occurs has been held from the earliest times. It stems from the sixth chapter of John’s Gospel, the eleventh chapter of 1 Corinthians, and the biblical accounts of the Last Supper. As centuries passed, theologians exercised their reason on the belief to understand more completely how such a thing could happen and what its happening would imply. It was seen that more precise terminology was needed to insure the belief’s integrity. The word "transubstantiation" was finally chosen because it eliminated certain unorthodox interpretations of the doctrine, and the term was formally defined at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215. So the use of the technical term was new, but not the doctrine.
And here is a link with dates of when particular churches were founded. I wasn't sure but that sounds like part of what you were asking as well. It comes from this website - Scripture Catholic which I think you will find very helpful in general in looking at the scriptural background of the beliefs of the Catholic Church.
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teachingmom
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CandaceC wrote:
One more question on reading materials for you...
Is there a link or a book title that could give me a very basic understanding or timeline/historical rundown of where the "traditional" teachings of your church come from? I'm having trouble putting my question into words...but I'm wondering what some things from our "church" today came from - if they all originated in the same place - like "my" church and the Catholic church - and how/when did we become so "segregated."
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Candace,
I'm not totally sure if I understand what you are asking here, but I have a thought that might relate. I know that some feel that by living Evangelical Protestant Christianity - simple and Bible focused - they are going back to our Christian "roots," so to speak. There is the belief by some that customs and beliefs were very simple in the early years of Christianity, and that the Catholic Church added on and added on until we came to this point, in which we have a Mass consisting of lots of formal prayers and rituals and many "extra" teachings about Mary and the Saints, etc.
Back when I was in graduate school studying theology, I was rather shocked at what I learned in reading excerpts from the writings of the early Church Fathers. These early Christians from the first and second century held the same beliefs that Catholics hold today - including beliefs about the Eucharist, Mary, praying to ask for the intercession of the Saints in heaven, etc.
I just found an interesting website on the writings of the early Church Fathers. You can look up quotes from these early Church leaders on a variety of topics. I was surprised to find how far back many of our beliefs and practices go.
I see that Mary posted as I was writing this message. She has said some of what I was trying to say, but much more succinctly. God Bless!
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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kristina
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Dear Candace,
When I was first learning about the Catholic Church (in RCIA), the Rome Sweet Home book was recommended to me. It read like a love story to me (I know that sounds wierd.. but maybe some who have read it will get what I mean), especially when compared to many other books explaining Catholicism. I learned much from that book and from reading his other books as well.
One fantastic resource was EWTN's audio archives that I could listen to right over my computer speakers. Dr. Hahn has programs on there. If you click here it will offer you the opportunity to type in a search box. If you type in Scott Hahn in the programs box (it's the one on the bottom), 92 programs will be available to listen to or to download.
Some of the programs are ones in series with the same titles as the books that have been suggested to you such as The Lamb's Supper, Hail Holy Queen and First Comes Love.
The final program on the list, #92, is "His Journey to the Catholic Faith." Much of his talk is in the Rome Sweet Home book, but it is nice to listen to in his own voice.
You will need to have realplayer on your computer (a free download available on that same EWTN Audio Library search page.
Candace, count on my prayers for you.
God Bless you and your dear ones!
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Barbara C.
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Kristina, I might just have to check out program #92 since it's "The Talk" as it is referred to in "Rome Sweet Home". And I totally know what you mean about the book reading kind of like a love story.
Candace, if you have the arm strength, you could look for a copy of the Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity. It was our basic textbook for my two semesters of History of Christianity in college. But I kept it more for the beautiful artwork in it. Which gets me thinking that I might want to pull it out and look through it with the kids.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Teach me about Catholicism??
