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chicken lady
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To add to Elizabeth's.....because my Bishop now wants mandatory "testing" of children in his CCD program, that ask,at the tender age of 10, what we should do about "date rape". Yup you read right, this is part of our diocesan DRE's job. To teach my dd's about date rape! This is not a negotiable option for me to even begin to dialog about. Talking my diocese here!
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Matilda
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Re: Elizabeth's comment...What she said!!!!!
In a perfect world, there would be no need for DREs. I am sorry if that is offensive to anyone who has ever done that job, but the fact of the matter is that the parents are the primary educators and if they were all doing their job, there would be no need for a DRE. So those of us who take our responsibilities seriously are suffering for the sake of those who don't. It seems as though the DRE system has gone the way of the public school system and instead of assisting parents in educating their children, they expect parents to abdicate that responsibility. I might be wrong on this, but my call to obedience (I didn't take a vow to obey anyone except my husband) has to do with obeying the precepts of the church, not obeying the bureaucracy.
I think it is interesting that a complaint was made about a child who wasn't schooled at home for any subject other than religion. Makes me think that parent considered religious education to be more important than Math and History if it was the one subject they weren't willing to hand over to a stranger. Speaks volumes to me.
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Charlotte (Matilda)
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with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
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Matilda
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Oh my goodness, Chicken Lady! I just saw what you wrote. I can't believe...no wait... sad to say, I can.
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Charlotte (Matilda)
Mom to four (11, 10, 9 & 5) an even split for now
with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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LisaR
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I know of large homeschooling families who have "swayed" parishes and even a Diocese by volunteering- at home- by stuffing Family Formation Packets, by teaching a 30 min segment once a year about living the liturgical year at home (ala Kristina Kummet of this board and magnum opus- they even made it into a DVD and now we ALL benefit from it!!), by being "present" in any way, large or small, that they could.
When I was at home on very strict bedrest, I called and chatted with our DRE occasionally, asking if there was anything I could pray for for our Parish programs, and I also occasionally (I think 3x!) e mailed her with a neat website or something. To this day she STILL mentions how supported she felt....
There is a family here with 6 kids under 12. The dh works construction for very low pay, often times a 2 hr drive one way. She, along with a few other Catholic homeschooling moms, essentially "took over" (in a very good way!) an entire Parish's CCD program.
Where there is a will, there is a way, I think it is more an issue of "is this my familiy's calling?" and for many, it might not be.
Just don't expect to be "heard" perhaps as much as someone who has been working in the trenches in a particular area.
Molly, I think you might have heard slighly wrong, and should check again.
off again!
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Lisa
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LisaR
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Molly, just talked to the Bishop's office to confirm. There is no "mandate" from the office and they in fact were of the opposite, saying that absolutely no "testing" concerning those types of issues have any place in Confirmation prep. They urged me to tell you to call them directly, because if your Priest is doing this, or your DRE, they are actually in disobedience of the office.
The problem might be that this particular Diocese DOES leave many decisions up to the individual parish- for example, confirmation may take place between the age of reason 7,and 16....
Sorry, but I had already heard some rumor like this from someone else over there, and then they responded it actually wasn't true, so it piqued my interest to really check for myself! 
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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ok, there might be a slight chance I contacted the wrong Diocese. I forgot how far out you live. but I DID contact the Diocese that you and I both went to school in 
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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jdostalik
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Elizabeth,
Thank you for your post. I could have written it myself. I am feeling so exhasuted emotionally by our current situation. We have been prayerfully taking things one step at a time but right now we are waiting to hear back from our pastor. He is meeting with the DRE today. We had a meeting set up with Fr. yesterday but he decided to meet with the DRE before meeting with us--I hope this means he is taking our concerns seriously. With this child, I DO NOT want her exposed to children from a public school setting, she has a very beautiful soul, but it is in formation and I do not believe she is strong enough to defend her faith to others in a potentially hostile peer setting... and I absolutely do not want her to be exposed to a dreadful curricula--it's pretty much a nightmare situation...please pray for us. 
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God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
Let the Little Ones Come
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Elizabeth
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LisaR wrote:
Where there is a will, there is a way, I think it is more an issue of "is this my familiy's calling?" and for many, it might not be. |
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I guess I'm just not trying hard enough.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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msclavel
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Hmmm...this came up for us again this year as my daughter prepares for First Communion.
First off, Elizabeth, I could have written your post about the reality of just "participating" word for word.
And you know what, I was going to add a bunch more thoughts, but I will leave it at that.
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Martha
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Elizabeth wrote:
LisaR wrote:
Where there is a will, there is a way, I think it is more an issue of "is this my familiy's calling?" and for many, it might not be. |
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I guess I'm just not trying hard enough. |
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 You and me both I guess.
What isn't mentioned is what it costs the family to do it. If someone is willing to let their family suffer for CCD, then I guess that's their call to make.
Thank you, Elizabeth, for your wonderful example.
I'll admit I'm not called to to volunteer for CCD.
My calling is wife and mother and right now that takes all I've got and then some just about every day.
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Martha
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mimmyof5
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I don't post here often, but this subject has been a hot topic in our home lately.
I was one of those who didn't want to appear to shun our parishes' RE programs or to appear 'holier than thou' as I heard too often about homeschoolers . After all, we are part of the community. So we enrolled our oldest dd (14 yrs.) in Life Teen for confirmation prep. and our second oldest (12 yrs.) in Jr. Life Teen.
The lack of any serious catechesis was the least of the problems. However, a few of the Life Nights that stand out are ones based on Austin Powers (which we hadn't allowed our children to watch), Cider House Rules (ditto), or The Wizard of Oz where at the end of the yellow brick road you throw a rock into a bowl to represent the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
The real problem was the attitudes, which I should have expected. These children come from our local public schools, and many of them were receiving no faith formation in the home. My oldest came home to tell me about some of the girls talking about having s** with their boyfriends, one girl discussing that she was bi******. What was even worse was one Youth Minister telling about the 'camping trip that went wrong'; she became pregnant and had to get married. Then there were the boys and girls getting together. Oy! One night my youngest dd came home with obscenities written on her arms. She was with a group of kids who were writing these words on each other. She didn't even know what they meant. When I talked to the Youth Minister, she apologized but admitted they do not have the people to control this. They try, but basically this is the world we live in.
My daughters' attitudes changed. It's not that they were totally sheltered before as they had friends and relatives that attend public school, but this was more akin to jumping into the fire. Also, at 14 and 12 they were not mature enough or well grounded enough themselves to handle the onslaught with which they were confronted. What made this even worse, was the fact that this was their church. Had this happened at a secular event, I believe it would be easier to understand. However, it was even more troubling that this was inside our church.
Besides everything Elizabeth listed, these are some of the problems I see - which only have to do with our parish: Others might disagree, but this is my take on it.
Both Youth Ministers were very young. Late 20's to early 30's. One was married with 2 children under 4. The other wasn't married, no children. They were the oldest adults there. The core members ranged from college students for Life Teen to high school students acting as core members for Jr. Life Teen. Some of them were indirectly placed in the role of counselor, which should not happen. Overall, the leaders were seriously lacking in the maturity and wisdom that comes with age. Our pastor would conduct some classes occasionally but not every Life Night.
Our parish is huge - one of the new mega parishes. The gymnasium would be crammed with teens. The noise level was so loud that you couldn't hear the leader yelling at them to 'shut up' from the stage.
Everything was reduced to a game or a skit based on some popular movie. I still believe teens like to be taken seriously and would respond to some serious theological discussions. This type of discussion was reserved for those who had already been confirmed.
I was in the office more times than I can count talking to the YM's. They were kind and seemed sincerely concerned, but nothing changed. They have a huge, seemingly impossible job on their hands. I can't imagine what they deal with from kids with filthy mouths to parents who don't even attend Mass.
No, I haven't volunteered to help in this area, and I'm probably not going to until my younger children are older. First off, working with teens is not something I'm comfortable with or that I feel I would be good at. I'm not aggressive and lack that kind of personality that teens respond to. Secondly, my dh would have a fit if I did volunteer as he feels my primary responsibility is my home and family at this time in our lives. We are active in our parish in other ways, but this is not something I can do right now.
So, in retrospect I would give anything if I had never sent them to RE. The negatives far outweighed the positives. And no, I don't feel like I should risk my children so they can set an example for others. They were too young. Someday they will be out there in this mess, but 12 to 16 was too young. Mine weren't strong enough to stand up to the pressure and actually caved into it. Even if I were inclined to try it again with my younger ones, my husband has said under no condition will we be part of Life Teen again. I don't know what we'll do about confirmation next time around, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
A side note: My younger ones, 1st to 4th grades, have attended RE for First Communion prep, and I have no complaints. They didn't learn much, but the classes were fun and they enjoyed it. However, last year my then 9 yr old had problems with boys teasing her and making comments so her dad said that was enough. Most of the problems probably follow the problems of public school.
Guess I got carried away, but as I said this has been quite an issue in our home lately.
Janet
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Donna Marie
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Wow, what an interesting converstion!
Remember me? LOL I have had a wonderful time talking with my DRE. She went to the diocese and talked to them about our family in particular. They told her that what I knew already. I reiterated that my children already know the required materials and she said "I don't even want them to do additional service hours because I see them doing them every week." She praised my girls so much...I felt so proud. She broke down and discussed with me the frustrations of doing her job. She told me that she WISHES that all families that she came across knew their faith and practiced it like we do.
What a wonderful teaching opportunity I had! I told her about some of the wonderful things that we do in our home to celebrate the liturgical year...some of the service projects that we work on together as a family. I explained that everything we do is family-centered and God-centered for all of us right down to the toddler. I discussed with her the Catechesis of the Good Shepherd and I asked her if she knew about Maria Montessori. Her only daughter was sent to Montessori schools long ago and she knows that the children OWN their work when taught this way. I explained that if catechists use this information in an orthodox way, the program is VERY fruitful. I then recommended many books to her, and she told me to talk to her daughter who is now attending school to become a teacher (she is 40ish) She was going to forward the CGS info to her...she was highly interested and told me to tell her about it the next time I saw her.
A few days later, she saw my mother (she is a teacher in our parish school for 2nd grade and of course prepares her students for the sacraments>..heck, I gave her a lot of the resources...but I digress;)) She knows that my mom is a good teacher and she told her all about the conversation with me and had nothing but praise for our family. She understands that as we catechize at home, we evangelize the parish as a family in a very unique way.
You see, this is the unique charism that my family has. I can in no way participate directly in the parish programs at this time. There are many reasons for this. I am, however, training SOME parish members at present I am living fully my vocation as I am called to do. I am fully involved with it and sooo happy with this wonderful job.
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc
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God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 9dc!!
Finding Elegant Simplicity
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Mary G
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YEAH! Donna Marie! I'm so glad you posted about the successful outcome of a charitable discussion wiht your DRE! God does work in mysterious ways, huh?
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MaryG
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Martha
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Standing ovation for you, Donna!
See now, there is a wonderful example!
Gives hope for the rest of us!
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Martha
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LisaR
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Elizabeth, I just meant that it is definately not every family's calling, and it is part of our mission but it does not mean every Catholic homeschool family needs to or can be so involved.
I certainly did not mean to step on anyone's toes. We all take our Children's Religious upbringing very seriously, and I know we are all doing what we can to foster charity within our communities in our own ways.
Good job Donna!!
and...the field trip was a HUGE success. Amazing to watch some 30 Protestant moms kneeling in front of the Blessed Sacrament in the Brothers AND Sisters chapels, and the kids, OH they just soaked it all up!!
Peace of Christ,
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
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Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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LisaR
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[QUOTE=LisaR] Elizabeth, I just meant that it is definately not every family's calling, and it is part of our mission but it does not mean every Catholic homeschool family needs to or can be so involved.
oops, by "our" mission I meant my own family. and seriously, we are just participants in Family Formation, one time per month for 90 min. Joe may work with the 5th and 6th grade boys,occasionally as a helper.... I think Tim is slated to give the teaching talk in Jan for 45 min, and that is the extent of it. Neither of us are teaching a class this year, although it would only be once a month, and all our kids could be with us, which is perfect. What we teach at home, we just teach there, so no big deal. (but it did take some work to get to where it is "no big deal" )
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Red Cardigan
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Well, let me be the first to admit that it is not my family's calling to be involved in any way with parish level Religious Education.
I will not aid and abet the weakening of catechesis.
I will not participate in the kind of moral atrocities described by Molly and Janet.
I will not subject my children to the pollution of popular culture dragged in by teachers/R.E.s in a sad and misguided effort to make our timeless and beautiful faith "relevant" to modern teen-age life.
I will not encourage the proliferation of felt banners and campy music as somehow the best artistic expressions our kids can create to demonstrate their faith lives.
I have already decided to educate my kids at home rather than throw them to the wolves of our poisoned culture; I'm not going to hand them over to the same wolves in sheep's clothing for overnight co-ed retreats and seriously deficient religious instruction.
It is not my call to enable further dysfunction in our Church. It is my call to stand against it.
I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but this is the truth.
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JennGM
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Red Cardigan wrote:
It is not my call to enable further dysfunction in our Church. It is my call to stand against it.
I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but this is the truth. |
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Let's not make sweeping general statements. Not all dioceses, parishes and RE programs are the same. There are some very good programs out there, and there are many well-taught, very faithful DREs striving to truly spread the Faith. Are there abuses? Yes. Is it across the board everywhere? No.
It's a very difficult uphill battle for parishes. We have had a generation or two of Catholics that don't know the Faith as well. We are blessed to have been given the Truth and the opportunity to raise our children in the Faith. But someone needs to help out the score of families who might not have the best Catholic education.
Remember we are the Mystical Body. It would behoove us all to at least pray for RE everywhere, if we can't participate. When one part of the body is hurt or ailing, it affects us all.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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chicken lady
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Preach it Red Cardigan You warmed my heart. Of course Jenn is right we need to pray for the RE world wide to come back to the true faith.
I am not trying to flame, I am chuckling to myself because I am so stressed out and this is a great diversion for me. You are all quite welcome to ignore me
Oh BTW, Lisa, the test is not for Confirmation prep it is for all CCD of our diocese. They will administer it at three different ages. So says our handy dandy DRE!....Ohhhhh the days when a priest use to run a parish and a Bishop a diocese!!!
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Red Cardigan
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Well, Jenn, I tend to agree with Matilda above, who says that in a perfect world we wouldn't even need REs, not even the best of them in the best possible programs.
For those of us stuck with the worst stuff, it's little consolation to know that there are a handful of good programs/REs faithful to the Magisterium and teaching the truths of our faith with no "watering-down"; even in those classes, though, the biggest problem for a homeschooled child might be the other kids, many of whom have been immersed in music, movies etc. that are very contrary to Christian values.
Here's the thing: why should children being educated DAILY about the faith at home have to participate in what is in effect "remedial" religious instruction for those kids who have no contact with the faith whatsoever outside the parish?
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Mandatory CCD? UPDATE on pg4
