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Donna Marie
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Could we be forced to attend CCD? I was always under the assumption that as long as we could prove that we are providing religious instruction to our children that it could never be mandatory...parents being the primary educators of their children and all. My DRE is saying that it may be that my twins will have to attend CCD for Confirmation. (we receive this sacrament at age 14 here) They already know the required information and I was going to fill their year with additional catechism, church history, scripture study, saint stories and apologetics....every day, not just an hours worth a week.
The DRE already knows that our family is who we say we are because we go to Holy Mass more than just on Sundays and volunteer a lot...I have been a member of that parish practically my whole life. My children know what Confirmation is and actually want to be there...unlike some of the public schooled CCD kids. They even say they want us to go on the retreat too...I managed to get them to "approve" just the homeschoolers having a day retreat together at someones home. That way they would be with people that really are serious about what they are doing. I know these kids well and know it would be a good retreat for my girls. The CCD kids have had problems (with authority and otherwise in the past) I just don't understand why we need to go all through this...especially if we have done that kind of work already with MUCH better books.
I just don't want to be forced into this. Can we be? There are 3 or 4 of us homeschoolers that are ready to receive this year. The parish has never seen the likes of us before...LOL...homeschoolers for Confirmation are a first for them. I managed to set the precedent for First Penance and First Communion before...we did it privately and loved it!
The other homeschool parents are waiting to see how the DRE handles me before they approach her themselves. I want to be prepared with facts before I talk to the DRE again...help?
God love you,
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc
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Mary G
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Donna Marie -- have you talked to the Pastor? It seems the DRE is taking on more authority than he/she should? I'd take it to the Pastor, and if that's not successful, apprise your bishop ... but then I tend toward the overly aggressive in situations like this 
ETA: Sorry, I hit send too soon. I believe if you can prove competence to the pastor/bishop, then that's sufficient for the sacraments. But again, I'd bypass the DRE and go right to the pastor for a conference.
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chicken lady
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Sorry to say Donna Maria, it is up to each individual parish or Diocese. We were at a parish that pulled that on me so I switched parishes. If your pastor has given over his authority to a parish council and DRE's you may be out of luck. I will say a prayer to Pope St Pius the X for you!
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Donna Marie
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I talked to the DRE who said that she admires my children and if it were up to her she would have no problem with us bypassing CCD, but she thinks that the Diocese will tell us that we have to. I really have a problem with all of these forced requirements for a Sacrament. It seems e cessive (sorry missing that key..it is still in the vacuum) My children do all of this naturally.
I hope I don't have any more problems. I love this church. I live only 4 blocks from it!
God love you!
Donna Marie from NJ
hs momma to 7dc
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Donna Marie from NJ
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Maryan
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I'm sure these were things you had to work through for first Penance/Communion, but...
Was it possible for you to offer to submit something to fulfill a requirement of study/retreat?
I'm just thinking of some of the common requirements for Confirmation:
a test that you can give your children?
A Saint report?
A homeschooling retreat held right in the Church?
Service hours?
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Maryan
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ALmom
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Ok, I think maybe the folks are innocently misinformed. The church law says that Sacraments cannot be denied to those that are truely ready to receive them. It is the pastor's responsibility to determine readiness. This has been reiterated again and again. Your pastors and bishops should know this. Sometimes, we get so much misinformation that a DRE or someone else may innocently think otherwise. A lot depends on your approach. You know your rights so you are not accidently or inadvertantly pushed around, but you don't come in swinging like you are telling the pastor what the church rules are - He really does know them. How far you persue your rights is a prudential judgement.
Now, how you respond to your situation depends on a lot. If you view the RE as detrimental to your children, then by all means pursue speaking with the pastor. Since the DRE said she would love to allow things and seems to agree that your children are ready, you are not circumventing her. I would come with all my evidence that the child is ready in writing - show service to the community (not just family), list of texts used, retreats, etc. Be prepared for the pastor or DRE to interview the child or make some requests. Basically try to fill in the bullets that you know the DRE is supposed to fill in. It also helps when the child has actually requested this Sacrament in the first place and be sure to inform the pastor if this is the case. We have always waited until this request has been made to us - of course much of the material is going to make this happen naturally at the right time for the child. Also time your request where the pastor has sufficient time to consult the bishop and or consult with whoever is in charge of the logistics of the day. You will generally be required to attend the practice so your child knows various logistical arrangements and how the meeting with the Bishop will be conducted.
If the matter is just an inconvenience but not particularly harmful to your children, then it might be worth doing things that are a waste of your time in one sense but does show willingness to cooperate and a certain "obedience" or respect of authority. (Not that you are showing lack of this the other way, but it is sometimes quite productive to bend over backwards IF it is truely not harmful).
We have done Confirmation both ways - both times we went straight to the pastor. Had we thought the Confirmation process would be really detrimental to our child in the second case where we attended the Confirmation Prep classes, we would have pursued our rights, if necessary, first explaining our reasons to the pastor. (There are plenty of reasons why something might not be good for the child even if the program itself is not defective - ie language barrier, special needs, etc.)
One thing we found in the RE classes is that the kids skip all the time and still get confirmed so if they were going to discuss something that I think may open a can of worms as far as discussion, we are busy that particular time - and often God provided for us with major commitments or an illness. I didn't do any group retreats either time - but substituted something I felt more appropriate to my child. We proposed substitutes and got the OK in both cases. We would not have done the standard retreat regardless.
Anyways, a lot depends on your local situation, but church law is behind you as best I can understand it.
Edited to add: Since a lot is riding on how the rest of the homeschoolers will be treated concerning this issue, I would pray really hard about the whole thing. Be really, really non-confrontational. Your willingness to do a few inconvenient things (maybe document something for the pastor or whatever)will go a long way in undoing any harm from prior prejudices - things like homeschoolers are always trying to get out of things or don't want to be a part of the parish. A real attitude of respect and obedience goes a long, long way. This doesn't mean don't talk to the pastor - just really pray and ask that you are truely humble and charitable all the way around.
Janet
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jdostalik
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Donna Marie,
I will pray for you. These types of situations make me nervous and upset. I am in a similar situation this year. My oldest is in 7th grade and in our parish, confirmation is a two year program and guess what? This year is the first year that they won't allow home study for the sacrament. The pastor wants 7th and 8th graders to learn to become part of the parish community (we have been involved at various levels in this parish for 13 years!)...argh...so dh and I decided to become "facilitators" so we will know what they're teaching--can't be too careful! I made the mistake of researching the curricula they are using--it's called FaithWays and is full of process theology. I am praying and discerning and will speak with our pastor. I am one of those rare homeschoolers who hate to "rock the boat."  So, to make a long story short, you're in my prayers, and I could use some,too! 
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Jennifer in TX
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MaryM
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Donna Marie,
I'm reposting something I have posted before in a thread about sacramental prep at home as it hopefully will be helpful here as well. This is from a publication called the National Directory for Catechesis – United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2005. Basically it reaffirms parents in their right to do home catechesis and sacramental prep, but does specify use of approved materials, involvement with the chuch community in other prep activities, cooperation between parent/priest/DRE-catechist leader. This is not a binding document but it is recommendations that generally should be guiding diocese in the US. It's interesting since it was developed in part by the Committee on Education which in the past has been known to be "progressive," that it so clearly affirms the right of parents to provide home catechesis for their children. For what it says about home catechesis I think it's a helpful resource to bring to the attention of the DREs (who I would hope are already aware of it).
As the primary educators of their children, parents have the right and the duty to choose the kind of educational environment that they determine best suits their children’s needs. Therefore, home schooling is a viable option for the general education of children.
If Catholic parents chose to provide catechesis for their children in their home, that catechesis must be both complete and authentic. The bishop of the diocese, the pastor of the parish, the parents, and the children all have God-given responsibilities that must be respected in considering home-based catechesis. The home-based catechesis of children is a cooperative effort between the children, their parents, parish leadership, and diocesan bishop. Parents who chose to be not only the primary educators of their children but also their catechists must adhere to all guidelines for catechists as outlined by diocesan bishop.
Parents who chose to catechize their children at home should not feel alone in this task. They are part of the parish’s total catechetical effort and should be welcomed in all parish catechetical program activities. Pastors in collaboration with parish catechetical leaders should provide the support, encouragement, and direction that parents need in order to ensure that they teach their children what the Church intends to be taught by providing parents with copies of appropriate sections of the diocesan curriculum. Parents who would like to provide catechesis at home should make themselves known to the local pastor and consult with him or his delegate to ensure that the catechesis provide in the home is the catechesis of the Church. Dialogue between the pastor and the parents is essential to complete an authentic catechesis of children in their homes.
All parents have an obligation to involve their children in the life and mission of the Church. Since their children are being initiated into the life of the Church, which is fundamentally realized in the local parish, parents who provide catechesis for their children in their homes should participate fully in the life of the local parish. They should celebrate the Sunday Eucharist in the local parish, involve themselves in its charitable works, and attend appropriate training and formation sessions the parish or diocese provides. Since the celebration of the sacraments continually integrates children into the Body of Christ, preparing children for reception of the sacraments should always be undertaken in collaboration with the local pastor and catechetical leader. These children should be encouraged to participate in non-instructional, preparatory activities of the parish peer group preparing for the sacrament. Parents who provide catechesis for their children in their homes can use those catechetical materials that have been approved by the diocesan bishop. (pp. 259-260)
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Mary G
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Donna Marie,
You mention that the DRE is behind you but says she can't ok it? The cynical side of me says she's passing the buck ... I would have the pastor/bishop interview your dc and see what he thinks ... if there is something missing, than I'm sure he'll let you know and you can take care of it....
MaryM's quoting of the USCCB's statement is wonderful ... print it and take it to your pastor. I've found that sometimes the local church is not aware of all of these things (and sometimes, the bishop isn't either) but that they're willing to learn and we should give them the opportunity to see the good that you and your children have done!
Prayers heading your way -- it can be really tough to be the trailblazer!
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MaryG
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5athome
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Have you been able to find any diocese documents on the mandatory policy? For our diocese, I noticed in the official manuals that are giving to each church, the wording that is used on this subject is that it is "recommended" that children have 2 years formal religious education which seems to allow some wiggle room.
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We went through this last year. We ended up doing the parish Confirmation prep program (after I met with the DRE). My son liked the classes but didn't learn anything (except that he is glad he doesn't go to public school); he loved his teacher. The retreat turned out to be extremely reverent, faith-filled and worthwhile for my son. (They had perpetual adoration, and the DRE was spotted there at 2:00 A. M., spending time before God...a great example.)
I was disappointed in the fluffiness of the classes - the textbooks were great (Ignatius Press) but the teacher didn't use them or assign reading for homework...don't know why not!
The students had to do service hours, attend one Life Teen event (my son went to a showing of The Passion of the Christ) and attend one teen Adoration hour (we have one each month).
So, in our case, things turned out OK, although we wasted a bunch of time taking ds to classes that didn't teach him much. He really grew spiritually during the retreat...a very good thing.
(This year's crusade...getting our RE fee reduced because we buy our own books. It worked.)
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Angela F
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We're going through this right now, too with Confirmation prep. Has anyone else read Responsibilities and Rights of Parents in Religious Education? I found this very informative and helpful; emphasizing that it's the parents right to educate and the pastors have the principal authority in the administration of the sacraments (not in educating...though they are to judge the proper disposition of the candidates.)
This booklet also addressed the "community" issue that sometimes get raised; pastors or DRE's argument that we must show we are part of the community by participating in rel. ed. classes.
According to what I read, the liturgy is the heart of the liturgical life and it is *the* necessary communal dimension of Christian life that all children should experience. The other ways the parish fosters community beyond liturgy are left to the parents discretion as to whether they want to participate or not. So by going to mass, we are being "community". And most of us homeschoolers probably do more. 
Just a few thoughts...
God bless,
Angela
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Martha
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The community issue is NOT an issue and if it is, I think it shows a lack of understanding for what confirmation is.
Confirmation is a sacrament.
It is NOT about community involvement anymore than confession, baptism, or eucharist.
Would we say people cannot receive euchrist or have their chidlren baptised or go to confession unless they go on a retreat or do a certain level of service hours? Of course not. That's a distortion of the purpose of sacramental preparation.
The only requirement to receive the sacrament is that the soul of the person in question is disposed to properly do so.
If that person is deemed spiritualy ready, then I do not see how any good priest could sleep at night knowing he had denied them the sacrament.
I understand wanting to get the kids involved and so forth. I do get that.
What I do NOT agree with is the distortion of a sacrament to get a brief, if any, display of fake community involvement.
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LisaR
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Donna Marie, what is your Pastor saying? It still sounds to me like a passing the buck situation as well. Like I mentioned to you before, homeschoolers tend to fall through the cracks and to account for 1,000's of the parochial school kids and the CCD kids there has to be some sort of order, so they just want to establish "rules" or an order for the homeschoolers as well. We balk because we feel they are hinging on our territory, "they" are just feeling responsible for more little souls that need to be accounted for and counted and kept track of in some way. (and the only way they know how to do this is just how they treat the school kids)
I went to a talk a few years back- it warned of the dangers of being a cafeteria Catholic- that one tends to think of the "liberals" as being cafeteria style, but the growing danger could be that we as the conservative, orthodox homeschoolers could pick and choose and shop around as well. It is a fine line about obedience, I know, and of course we cannot "obey" heresy or anything like that. I just hope and pray that for you, your dc, and your so very local (4 blocks, how nice) Churches sake that this can be resolved.
Situations like this are a good reminder to try to discern the intent of the "rule" , and to try to determine who made it and for what purpose.
I'd speak to the Pastor, and we have found over the years that a very conversational tone say:
"I have a dilema...my children are being told they need to do xy and z to receive Confirmation. Since we homeschool, we are using xy and z to cover these requirements at home. How could we get this documented so that the children do not have to go over the same material twice via CCD and/or retreats? Would you be open to interviewing them? Could I make a portfolio for you?"
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MaryM
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LisaR wrote:
| "I have a dilema...my children are being told they need to do xy and z to receive Confirmation. Since we homeschool, we are using xy and z to cover these requirements at home. How could we get this documented so that the children do not have to go over the same material twice via CCD and/or retreats? Would you be open to interviewing them? Could I make a portfolio for you?" |
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Beautifully stated, Lisa. The old 'you get more bees with honey than vinegar' approach.  This is a great script to go in with.
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Mary M. in Denver
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Martha
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LisaR wrote:
| the growing danger could be that we as the conservative, orthodox homeschoolers could pick and choose and shop around as well. It is a fine line about obedience, |
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hmm, I tend to disagree. I think we ALL pick and choose and shop around. And that's GOOD.
I don't know that that is what makes a cafe catholic though. To *me* a cafe catholic is deciding they don't want to believe or follow some Church teachings, doctrine, or beliefs.
Refusing to participate in CCD does not fall in that catagory, imho. We should pick and choose and shop to find our place in the Church. Is it wrong for someone to "pick" a TLM? No. Is it wrong for someone to decide they are going to another parish because the priest there offers better confessions? No.
There are MANY ways the Church allows us to find holiness and we are wise to find (pick, choose, shop around) until we find what aids our spiritual growth.
This is NOT being a cafe catholic. A cafe catholic usually does not make their denials based on whether it will aid their spiritual growth. And it's really not possible to be both orthodox AND to disobey the Church.
Last I checked DRE's are NOT the Church. Not participating in CCD is not anywhere near on par with being a cafe catholic or disobeying the Church.
I'm NOT saying to be hateful to them. By all means, use lots and lots of honey.
But I have the primary duty in my children's faith formation and if I feel CCD does not aid me in that duty, I have every right, maybe even a responibility, to not use it.
I agree with everyone else, talk to the priest and go from there.
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LisaR
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sorry I do not have time to explain myself better re: "cafeteria Catholic". It really is more an attitude that "I am better than the Church" , that can prevade liberal and conservative circles alike.
As opposed to an attitude of respect to our local Pastor, Bishop, Diocese.
Yes, we are the primary educators of our children. but we are also a community.
The point made in the talk was that some Catholic homeschoolers seem to almost be "home churchers" as well.
anyway, wish I could remember the exact phrase. it just resonated so deeply with me personally, as the wife of a Parish, and now Diocescan employee. I can't tell you how many times rumors and attacks have been spread about our parish where dh worked, and now here in the Diocese, and sadly, the most fires we had to put out came from the homeschooling community.
I love the quote "in essentials unity, in all things charity".
I would hope that we could in general come to the consensus that our local Pastors and Bishops desire for our children the Sacraments.
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Lisa
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Matilda
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LisaR wrote:
| Like I mentioned to you before, homeschoolers tend to fall through the cracks and to account for 1,000's of the parochial school kids and the CCD kids there has to be some sort of order, so they just want to establish "rules" or an order for the homeschoolers as well. " |
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This is actually my major gripe with the attitude that most parishes have towards homeschoolers. My kids are not public schoolers. They are CATHOLIC school children.. their schoool just happens to convene under my roof. The state agrees with me. Why can't my children be treated like the precious souls they teach inside of their brick walls? My kids are learning as much as (if not more than) the Catholic school children because our faith enters into our science lessons, history lessons, grammar lessons, etc...
Sorry but is a touchy subject for me. I spoke with the DRE of this parish and firmly concluded that we would remain parishioners of our original parish even though it is hours away just because of the respect that Fr. W. shows homeschooling families. He treats us as Catholic schoolers and trusts that we are the primary educators of our children instead of being skeptical of it. Innocent until proven guilty you know.
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LisaR
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right, but if you want them to be treated as the Catholic school kids are, you would be turning over your trust to their teachers (whom they hired) to educate them for Confirmation. Confirmation prep, or any Sacrament prep, is held during school time there, and the Teachers, DRE, Priest, Bishop, etc know what is going on. They do not have a window into your Catholic Homeschool- unless you provide it for them respectfully, by way of a portfolio, offering an interview, etc.
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Lisa
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Matilda
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We would be more than willing to allow our children's readiness to be determined by the pastor or competent authority figure and have offered to do so in the past. In my experience though, the DRE I spoke with said, first that my children could not be enrolled in Sacramental Preparation without having been enrolled for the year prior (insinuating that I was only concerned with the getting the sacraments and not actually passing on the Faith). I asked how we go about proving that our children received religious education at home and she couldn't think of any sufficient proof. I offered her a note from the teacher, but that would be me. She wasn't amused. I asked if she wanted to see their work or speak with them and she seemed annoyed. I am assuming it was because we weren't following the standard operating procedure or perhaps that she saw our decision to homeschool as a judgment against the private school she was in charge of.
Secondly, we were going to have to provide proof that we had done the required "work" using one of the "approved curricula" (Faith and Life was the only one I recognized). They could turn in their workbook as proof. Another lady I know fulfilled this requirement although doing every page in the workbook was tortuous for her child and this same DRE flipped through it and said, "OK". They could have written gibberish on every page and she wouldn't have known.
So I am sorry, but I don't think this is done out a sincere desire to "leave no child behind" when it comes to sacramental preparation, in fact, I sense a very different attitude altogether.
First Holy Communion, along with First Confession, is not a recorded sacrament. Would I be violating any Canon Law if I determined my child was ready and sent her up to receive wearing a pretty white dress and a mantilla? I would gladly give up the hoopla in favor of fewer hoops. Would she be denied because we hadn't followed the correct protocol? The protocol of the past depended upon a personal relationship with the pastor who had probably baptized your child and known them since they were born (since this would have been back before pastors were reassigned every year). Most pastors cannot be reached these days until you have passed through the gauntlet of assistants and directors/ministers. Maybe that's part of the problem but I digress...
__________________
Charlotte (Matilda)
Mom to four (11, 10, 9 & 5) an even split for now
with bookend boys and a double girl sandwich
Waltzing Matilda
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Mandatory CCD? UPDATE on pg4
