| Author | |
chicken lady
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2315
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2007 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
You are indeed correct the church does not contradict the bible. But the verses you quoted you are taking out of context. Commonly done by most protestant churchs today, sadly Catholics are buying it hook,line and sinker.
Congratulations on your 9th soul and I admire your lifestyle and choices. I bet if we were sitting down talking we would agree more than disagree, however e-mails can be quite tricky.
One more note saying "hooray for the Duggars for taking care of themselves" perhaps I am not understanding you, but I find that line very troubling. We don't "take care" of ourselves, God provides, and God allows others to struggle to force others to look outside of themselves and help. It is quite easy to be very prideful and think ourselves "capable", I did for many years......then I got knocked down off that horse. I pray we all live long enough to show Mercy and realize we too could be that other person in a wink of an eye.
I am hopeful that you take this as it is meant, I am not attempting to be hurtful. It is a topic near my heart as these past 2 years has led me to "see" and learn the churchs teaching on social justice, not the watered dow protestant verision.
Molly
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2007 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't think either one of you are wrong. You are both speaking from your life experiences and life witnesses.
Different people. Different families. Different parental teachings. Different circumstances. They all bring us to where we are today. Whether you are in-debt or not...today is the day to look at where you are and where God wants you to be. We are not living in yesterday or tomorrow. It is this moment that counts. What will you do with it?
I went to a Christian financial talk last weekend at our local hs conference. The couple was very adamant that Christians should not go into debt except for things that go up in value (like a house) which they could sell and get their money back.
I also noticed the speaker was a financial advisor at a local corporation like the one my dh works at. This man and his family are no where near in financial straits. It's easy for him to stay out of debt. It's easy for him to talk.
So I raised my hand and asked him about families like my best friend who, through no fault of their own, but due to a chronic health condition, have been riddled into debt due to medical bills (even though they had insurance), out of town medical stays, etc.
I commented on how faithful they are to God and how it hurts to see them struggle so and know they will never get out from under the burden of debt that they had no way of avoiding.
The speaker looked at me for several seconds then said quietly, "Sometimes there is no correct answer or solution. Why does God allow this? Possibly so the rest of us will learn how to be faithful to God in the face of adversity. I'm sure your friend's example has been a great lesson for you."
How correct he was (is). There is a difference in going into debt and facing hardship as Job did and going into selfish debt just to keep up with the Jones.
My question would be, with these outrageous gas prices and food prices and unsightly mortgage notes, how do we avoid going into unnecessary debt.
I think all of us here are, in one way are other, trying to be responsible stewards. Grateful stewards. Again, each one of us will find ourselves in different situations at different times in our lives. God does provide...just has He has for my dear friend...but that doesn't mean the cross will be light.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
chicken lady
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2315
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2007 at 2:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay . God does provide...just has He has for my dear friend...but that doesn't mean the cross will be light. [/QUOTE wrote:
Very nice dear Cay! When people stop, listen and love they hear what you heard. It is so easy to judge, aft |
|
|
Very nice dear Cay! When people stop, listen and love they hear what you heard. It is so easy to judge, after all, if you can find fault with the poor, you don't need to help.
If you seek to understand (as St Francis prayed) you will not have time to judge how any of us have gotten where we are today. I know for me, 2 years ago I could not have imagined I would be writing these thoughts. I know that 2 years ago I thought my current situation in others was ridiculous, today I know that I was so ignorant and prideful. Lord forgive me!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2007 at 2:47pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'd rather have 20 children and live in debt or poverty. (I don't have either, 20 children or poverty, just a tad bit of debt in the way of a mortgage.) Children are eternal, immortal souls. Debt, well, that's temporal. A couple can surely be in debt and/or poverty, yet be responsible parents.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2007 at 5:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Macmom wrote:
Yes, I think people who go into debt or expect others to pay for their lifestyle because they can't provide need to consider what God is calling them to. That's responsible parenthood.
|
|
|
Mary would have been stoned to death back in her day.
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
insegnante
Forum All-Star
Joined: April 07 2006
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1143
|
| Posted: Aug 04 2007 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Macmom wrote:
Open to life means not just having lots of kidlets, but caring for them once they arrive. A family "on the dole" is not caring for their kids, and neither is a family piling up massive debts because they can't live witjhin their means. The Duggers do neither. I find that praise-worthy. |
|
|
Does "on the dole" mean receiving government assistance instead of attempting to provide as able through directly earned income, or does it include those who work as they are able but may use programs such as Medicaid, food stamps, etc.?
I'm pretty sure I've read (maybe on this board, maybe a blog) one or more mothers of large Catholic families mention using Medicaid or maybe WIC or food stamps while intentionally seeking to have more babies. Not because of a belief that it is absolutely forbidden to avoid pregnancy through NFP or other abstinence, but because the program was seen as available help for the work of helping to bring new souls into the world and raising them well.
I have to admit it surprised me because of the popularity of certain viewpoints about NFP and what responsible parenthood means. And I wouldn't automatically sign up for any government help for which I was eligible. But I thought about it, and if it's not necessary to radically reject government services -- including the public library -- then I wasn't at all sure I could know that every family using government health care or food assistance must let years go by without having more children that they can and will otherwise care for "themselves." I'm not saying that it can't be a very reasonable decision to avoid pregnancy while working out financial limitations without signing up for government programs, and maybe (not sure) it even is what usually should be done. But it certainly gave me something to think about considering the relative importance of childbearing v. the benefits of other services provided by tax dollars.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Aug 06 2007 at 11:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I thought about this thread through all the readings at Mass yesterday. Get your missal, read, meditate, and contemplate God's word.
1st Reading: Eccl 1:2; 2:21-23
2nd Reading: Col 3:1-5; 9-11
Gospel Reading: Lk 12:13-21
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Lisbet
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2006
Location: Michigan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2706
|
| Posted: Aug 06 2007 at 11:45am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I thought of this thread too Cay. I plan on reading them once again and really thinking about it! Thanks for mentioning it here.
__________________
Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: Aug 06 2007 at 11:54am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I find the whole "affording children" argument hard. I live in an affluent area - where people on very high incomes can be heard to say "Oh I cannot afford another child". I guess "affording" is very subjective - my siblings who mostly have 1 or 2 children each think that they cannot afford more children - and probably think that I am irresponsible for having and wanting more. But their view is that children need to be dressed in expensive clothes, do hundreds of activities a week, have the latest techie equipment, go on vacation several times a year etc. We do not do any of the above - people think we live in a smaller house (but it would be a mansion in most of Africa or Asia) - and we have a generally very happy and unstressed lifestyle. I do not think it is depriving my kids not to have everything.
We are responsible financially - but health costs etc are not forseeable - just as living without a mortgage in No VA is impossible. (and I am a Dave Ramsey/Mary Hunt/Michelle Singletary fan!)
BTW - I have never watched the TV shows on the Duggars - but I thought that they had received a lot of money/goods from other people - not state aid but private donations.
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Congrats to the Duggars!
