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Lorri
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| Posted: July 27 2007 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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ElisabethGrace wrote:
Just wanted to pop back in to thank everyone for their posts. I've read all of the posts & am now trying to read Nancy Brown's book. I haven't yet decided what to do. My mind keeps coming back to the Scriptures & the catechism that reference witchcraft,etc.
I've given myself quite a headache! 
Again, thank you all so very much for this very thought-provoking discussion. Much, much food for thought.
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We've enjoyed the books -dh and I, that is. My dc are still too young for them. But if you don't feel comfortable with them, then don't worry about it. God could be calling you in a different direction. Even if you don't allow your dc to read them now, you may change your mind at a later time or they may choose to read them as adults. You could always get the first one from the library to get a feel for it. You don't have to finish it if you decide it's not the right thing for your family. I just wanted to encourage you in your decision. It's not easy to swim against the tide, if that's what you choose to do, especially if it seems like your dc will be missing out on something fun.
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Lorri
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teachingmom
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| Posted: July 28 2007 at 12:51am | IP Logged
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I can finally read this thread to the end since I finished book 7 last night. 
I have to admit that I had originally thought that my family would opt out of the entire Harry Potter phenomenon. I read a bit of Michael O'Brien's opinions, and worried about the spiritual aspects of reading about witches and wizards. We held off for a number of years, while very close friends became hooked on the series. My children really wanted to read the books.
Dh and I agonized a bit over the decision. On the one hand, I had some serious misgivings. On the other hand, I knew of quite a few solid, faithful, orthodox Catholic families who embraced the books and enjoyed them immensely. I also found that some online friends, whom I greatly respected, enjoyed the series and allowed their children to read the books. (Karen E., Kathryn, and Leonie were among them.  ) I corresponded with some of those women in order to find out how they came to their decision to read the books and what they thought of them. Finally, someone (honestly, it may have been one of my kids) suggested that I may not want to reject the series until I had read the first book for myself. Fair enough, I thought.
All my fears and concerns were washed away once I read the books for myself. The books have gotten better and better as the series has progressed. They are good stories, with good messages. The books are very clever -- particularly the wordplay found in names and made-up latin terms. The main characters are not perfect, but are very honorable and heroic. I found many Christian parallels in the 7th book, in particular.
I have really enjoyed the entire series. Interestingly, I do not like fantasy as a genre in general. It may be that I like these stories because the characters are so real, even though they reside in a fantasy world of magic.
My older two girls (ages 11 and almost 13) have read all 7 books. My 9yo has read half the series. Dh, who agreed to let our children read the books, thought we were going a bit overboard in our enthusiasm for the books. He tends not to read fiction much, and prefers history and biography. But after awhile, Mary Chris's husband told dh how much he enjoyed the stories, and they lent him the first book on audio to listen to during his commute. He ended up becoming a fan too and is currently reading the newest book.
Each family has to decide for themselves. Personally, I found the books to be a positive addition to our lives. The characters have become dear friends, and we will miss them now that the series has ended.
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~Irene (Mom to 6 girls, ages 7-19)
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Leonie
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teachingmom wrote:
| Personally, I found the books to be a positive addition to our lives. The characters have become dear friends, and we will miss them now that the series has ended. |
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Definitely. Rowling is a good storyteller. I am one third throgh book seven and see much symbolism - especially some strong thoughts on how precious is a soul and on how serious/bad it is to destroy one's soul....
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jugglingpaynes
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| Posted: July 28 2007 at 10:25am | IP Logged
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I know it's being said over and over, but this is the most thoughtful and respectful exchange I have ever read regarding Harry Potter.
We are almost finished with book 7. We are waiting for my hubby to catch up so that we can read the last few chapters together. I agree with the above comments regarding the Christian symbolism. I believe this is Ms. Rowling's strongest book.
Thanks to all for offering a safe place to express our opinions!
Peace and Laughter,
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Karen E.
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| Posted: July 28 2007 at 5:34pm | IP Logged
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JennyMaine wrote:
(I am not of the opinion that I need to read every book ever printed in order to make a decision on whether or not they are right for my family. There is wisdom in counsel from trusted sources - for instance, I don't need to read Mein Kempf to know it isn't my cup of tea!) |
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I agree that we don't have to read every book ever printed, and some are easy choices. But, I couldn't begin to compare Mein Kampf to HP ... and, from a purely logical standpoint, since HP had good, solid, orthodox Catholics coming out on both sides, it was certainly, for me, a series I had to check out for myself.
JennyMaine wrote:
| Further, a close friend taught in our local Catholic school and had many first hand accounts of the problems caused by the books at the school (students being drawn into withcraft, students trying to cast spells on the teachers they didn't like, etc.) |
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My husband teaches in a public school, and I can offer the opposite anecdotal information ... he has lots of students who are fans of HP but has never seen a problem with a descent into the occult among them.
JennyMaine wrote:
| One Catholic homeschool family I know (I may have shared this in another post) are huge fans of HP. While at their house one day, I couldn't help but notice that the oldest child was reading through a stack of books on wizardry and casting spells. |
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I would say that this poor boy and his family have bigger problems than Harry Potter. I'll pray for them all.
Blessings,
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God bless,
Karen E.
mom to three on earth, and several souls in God's care
Visit my blog, with its shockingly clever title, "Karen Edmisten."
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: July 29 2007 at 8:56am | IP Logged
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Most of the objections to HP center around fears of leading people into the occult and restrictions in the Bible against prognostication and calling upon the dead for answers. Then there are the objections about the characters lying and disobeying authority.
The thing is that in the Harry Potter universe magic pretty much replaces science. The characters don't pray to any deity to receive their powers, as Wiccans do. Prognostication/divination is seen as a joke through most of the wizarding community, and even though a few real predictions do occur it is made clear that they are not set in stone and what will happen is based on our choices. And death and life after death and the problems caused by calling upon the dead for selfish reasons are a major part of the entire series.
And, the main characters aren't perfect little children but most children aren't. And they don't always get rewarded for their less than stellar behavior. In book 5, Harry suffers a huge consequence for not listening to and obeying the prominent adults in his life.
And some of the arguments against it seem reminiscent of objections to reading "Huckleberry Finn" because it uses the "n" word, never mind that "Huck" is completely anti-slavery book. Now, I agree that no one should be ridiculed for choosing not to let their family read it, and the progressive heaviness (in physical weight and theme  )
does warrant some caution. And that genre just isn't for some people. I just get annoyed when the objections are based on errors, untrue assumptions, and misrepresentations by people who have not read the books for themselves. And I think there are some people who object to the books just because they enjoy going against the tide just to go against the tide.
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Martha
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| Posted: July 29 2007 at 10:36am | IP Logged
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Welcome to the forums Barbara!
I think I would have to agree with you. There is zero relgious references in HP that I recall. I don't know that magic replaces science, so much as it IS science. Hence the need to study it for the students.
I also like the "real" feeling of the characters. It's worth mentioning, the main character, Harry, isn't some well brought up kid to begin with. He was "raised" by people who didn't want him at all and shoved in a cupboard under the stairs for a "room". Pretty much every day stinks for this kid and brings yet another challenge and wall to overcome. Yet, this character who could have been written with every excuse for why he grew up to become a blight on society - instead was written to show that even out of despair hope for a better life can be found. Despite how angry and frustrated and scared and alone Harry feels throughout the series at times - he always is doing his best to do the right thing, the good thing, for others. Wow. I love that.
Oh and let us not forget Snape! I thought that was what would happen, but it was wonderfully done on rowlings part!
HP books are not witchcraft in the demon summoning sense that many people think of. Magic is simply a talent some kids are born with and need to go to a special school to develop. No different than a mathematical or science prodigy. If that helps to understand.
I have no issue with parents who don't want to read it. We all have different guidelines and feelings and that's what we need to go by on this, imho. I know my kids and how they think and relate to things. I've refused lots of books that others think nothing of, but I knew it would strike an undesirable chord in my child(ren) and didn't let them read it.
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aussieannie
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| Posted: July 29 2007 at 4:42pm | IP Logged
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Barbara C. wrote:
| I just get annoyed when the objections are based on errors, untrue assumptions, and misrepresentations by people who have not read the books for themselves. And I think there are some people who object to the books just because they enjoy going against the tide just to go against the tide. |
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Barbara, rather than debate with anyone on any given point, I have preferred just to share some of the sources that have formed our decision, providing for those who are still forming their opinions, an understanding as to why some have refused their children reading the series.
So I can say that the thoughts you have shared, in regard to parents like my myself who have sincerely looked into it all, are not really an accurate portrayal of those opposing the HP books.
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Martha
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| Posted: July 29 2007 at 7:13pm | IP Logged
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aussieannie wrote:
| So I can say that the thoughts you have shared, in regard to parents like my myself who have sincerely looked into it all, are not really an accurate portrayal of those opposing the HP books. |
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I don't think she meant it as a slam against anyone on the board. Honestly this is the most refreshing discourse on this subject I've seen in I don't know how long. Maybe ever.
Many people IRL however, are not as well ... considerate?... in their dialong on this series. My house is pretty much an open door for company and I've had more than one person act horrified that I let my children read these books. Suddenly, they think I'm not a very good christian kind of vibe, kwim? I even had one woman tell my son he should be ashamed to read it.
Personally, I'm not asking anyone to justify why they don't want to read it. Free country and self censorship and all that is good enough by me.
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: July 30 2007 at 5:02pm | IP Logged
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Annie, I wasn't trying to slam anyone on here, and I'm sorry if you or anyone else felt that my post was a personal attack on your decision to not allow your family to read the books. We all have to do what we feel is best for our families.
I have also read a lot of the arguments from people out there trying to ban the books from public and school libraries. Many of their arguments have come from errors, untrue assumptions, and misrepresentations. And my meaning was that just as some people have objected to "Huck Finn" for using the n-word, some have objected to Harry Potter because it contains "magic" and they automatically associate magic with the occult.
And while some may have chosen to only share the resources they used to make their decision, others within this topic have mentioned specific points that have concerned them, including the three that I addressed. And I felt that it was important for someone who is making their decision to understand the place of magic within the books, which is as a replacement for science and technology.
I'm really sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes.
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aussieannie
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| Posted: July 30 2007 at 5:18pm | IP Logged
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No it is ok Barbara, I didn't think you were trying to slam anyone - as everyone has pointed out, it is a good thread. But I really wanted to say that decisions made by probably all the girls on the board against HP, have most likely based their decisions on the same process of investigation as myself and I personally do not believe it has been based on errors etc. or that we just want to dig our toes in on it - it was just something worth clarifying. Thanks for your concern though! 
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Catholicism & HP (contains spoilers)
