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Celeste
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| Posted: July 18 2007 at 7:43pm | IP Logged
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Speaking of Scott Hahn and covenant theology: He is a HUGE fan of CGS and Sofia Cavalletti, and she is a HUGE fan of his. He has said that this is the way to teach what he teaches, to children.
Celeste
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Celeste
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| Posted: July 18 2007 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
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And in reference to the Old Testament: It's not absent from 3-6 CGS. It's very present in Advent prophecies, for instance, and Psalms used in prayer. And it's not a matter of concealing it from the 3-6 child. But the stories of the Old Testament aren't formally taught in the atrium because, first of all, the child won't understand them because he isn't ready. When he IS ready for the Old Testament, look out! CGS is very heavy on typology (one of the reasons Hahn is crazy about it) and the continuum of salvation history (another element to inspire Hahn's admiration). Sofia is passionate about the Old Testament and Jewish culture and liturgy, so it's not that she doesn't think it's necessary. And she's passionate about presenting the deepest mysteries to the youngest children, but when and in the manner they're ready for them.
The second reason it's not in the atrium is that in the development of CGS Cavalletti looked to Jesus the Divine Teacher as a model of how and what to teach. As He is the center of salvation history, so He is the center of CGS--His person, His presence in Word and Sacrament; we learn of the Father by learning about Him, the perfect Image of the Father. The stories of the Old Testament find their meaning and fulfillment in the New; and the New is hidden in the Old. In working with the children she discovered that at certain ages particular messages resonated and others made no impression. She has what she calls a closet of humility--materials and lessons, some quite complex and beautiful, that she developed that didn't "work" and were therefore retired.
Well, I'll stop. Jenn and I disagree, respectfully, on this, and we still love each other. 
Celeste
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: July 18 2007 at 9:10pm | IP Logged
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Celeste:
I entirely agree with your assessment. Something you said so much better than I was trying to say earlier is how the Old Testament pieces (excluding the prophecies and psalms) do not mesh with the 3-6 atrium. They can still be covered, just not 'in' atrium. We use the Old Testament separately in our home, because for various reasons I feel it's important. We don't dwell on it, but we have a basic timeline of sorts set up on which to place the various events, nothing formal, just something. Of course, with older children in the home, the younger children will hear and see their work as well.
I have the 6-9 training as well, and am looking forward to getting into 9-12 training somewhere, somehow, someday. My son attended part of the 6-9 training with me - and he was definitely paying attention to parts I thought would be over his head (he's only 3!). I have to wonder if it's because he'd heard some of these things already... even the trainer commented on his attention to the presentations.
I've heard of Sofia's closet - one of these days, I want to see it! I hope she will someday allow pictures to be posted online or elsewhere just to let us know what she's tried already!
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 19 2007 at 7:04am | IP Logged
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I'm not trying to get into an argument. Like Celeste says, we disagree on this point. I'm not a purist, but pick and choose what works for me.
The difference of an outside atrium and a mother doing a catechesis is the area I'm pondering...how can I make this flow, since the atrium isn't isolated and removed from family life? That's why I think OT stories can be incorporated. Yes, it's not an official capacity of the Catechesis, but treating it as a true story of God's people, reverencing it, like CatholicMommy mentioned.
Perhaps I'm naive and inexperienced, but even within my own life I've been taught things that are pieces of a puzzle. I understand in part, but it's later that it all falls into place. I love the point that the atrium is trying to weave the Salvation History around Jesus Christ, but think of the early Church (apostles and Mary) who had the Old Testament pieces of the puzzle and then had the AHA! moments in context of Jesus Christ, Son of God.
The Holy Spirit can work in powerful ways. I'm definitely not saying present the Old Testament in entirety, but I do advocate some, and have and will teach in my house. The first question of the Baltimore Catechism comes to mind "Who made you?" -- the story of creation. And I always LOVED "Little Stories about God" by the DSP which presents some of the early OT stories. I also think the types of Christ, the stories like Jonah, and Noah are good.
It's not that the whole truth can be grasped, but it's the familiarity with the stories of our family tree. That familiarity can help later in piecing together our salvation history. "Do you remember the story of Jonah?"
In fact, I used Jonah and the whale for our Holy Week, and my 3 year old did seem to grasp important elements, seeing the similiarity of Jesus coming from the tomb alive, and Jonah.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Meredith
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| Posted: July 19 2007 at 9:41am | IP Logged
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These are all good points and perspectives and in relation to the training, I imagine that the creators of CoGS had specific reasons for not including *heavy* OT into the 3-6 materials.
On the other hand, what about the parent who is soley educating at home and has taken their beautiful little 5 year olds through bible readings and having them narrate back what they've heard (ala MODG, or Real Learning) and making their own Bible Notebook?? I know this isn't CoGS, but you can't simply erase what they have already assimilated from earlier teaching. I'm personally a little confused as to *why* OT is not taught in an atrium before age 8  , but then again, I am speaking from NO knowledge of the formal CoGS training, only what I have been exposed to in Moira's Album 
Sure appreciate you all sharing your thoughts here, it's enlightening 
Blessings!
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Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: July 19 2007 at 10:33am | IP Logged
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*I think* that as far as the level I (3-6 year old) atrium is concerned, some things just don't fit/mesh well into the grand scheme of things. I have tried on my own, with both levels I and II training and it just doesn't seem to work well.
We *do* the Old Testament, but it's not part of our atrium itself. It's part of our prayer time, reading time (narrating afterwards), art time, etc. We read correlating sections when we study various subjects (Psalm 113 and Genesis 1-10 for beginning geography; sections of Genesis and various Psalms and Proverbs for science; etc), and in our home, we read more than just lines from the prophecies, though I only put out the CGS chosen lines for copying for the little ones. We have a timeline set up, similar to something from the 6-9 atrium, but simpler, to show there is an order, etc.
So from my own perspective there is a distinction as to what can be taught using CGS-style and what you can do using other methods - in the home, you have those options. In a once a week 2-3 hour atrium session, there just aren't those options if a child is to focus on the material at hand.
6-9 year olds definitely go into the Old Testament - and, from what I can tell, 9-12 go almost as deep as I did in typology and other theology classes at Ave Maria College. But I don't see any problem doing these things at home much earlier - I think most trained CGS catechists expect the children to have some familiarity with the OT and other topics due to simple family faith and exposure - so no reason to exclude it at home.
Just thinking out loud again - hope it all made sense?
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: July 19 2007 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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Following from Jenn's quote, I thought I'd share one thing we do that is not CGS but definitely teaches the OT.
JennGM wrote:
| In fact, I used Jonah and the whale for our Holy Week, and my 3 year old did seem to grasp important elements, seeing the similiarity of Jesus coming from the tomb alive, and Jonah. |
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I have this great way to present Noah's Ark to preschoolers - I've only ever done it in a parish setting though. Every DRE I've ever had told me to pick one or two symbols and stick with those because the children can't grasp all of them, etc. But I found that the if children didn't get the 'big picture' they didn't really understand those one or two symbols.
Essentially, the children reenact the entire story, building the ark (boxes), painting it, searching for the earlier-hidden animals (two each of various stuffed animals), blue confetti for rain, blue strips for the rising water (waving them as they crouch down and then move up as the waters come up), moving the box around, sending out the birds (two children), the olive branch, finding land, disembarking, the rainbow.... I usually make a memory page for them with pieces of each item and some pictures and they narrate to me whatever they like from the event - and they all got the whole thing, with the symbology, the Scripture readings, etc.
But is that Catechesis of the Good Shepherd? Nope. But it sure is fun!
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Moira’s albums and CGS training
