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Anonymous
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And this is from the first anonymous poster:
lapazfarm wrote:
Sorry, Anonymous, but I couldn't disagree more. It certainly SHOULD be expected. I do thank God I have a husband who is happy to help. If I didn't I would do everything I could to get him to see that he should. And I wouldn't let up until I got it. Nagging? It is NOT nagging to demand to be treated with respect. I deserve better than to be treated as a doormat by some slob who cannot be bothered to pick up after himself. That is not showing love, that is showing pure disrespect and contempt for me and all I do. I really dislike it when women are told they need to put up with emotionally abusive, lazy husbands using "submission" as an excuse. That is not what submission is meant to be about. |
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I am happy that your husband is willing to help. In my circumstance, as well as that of many other women, that is not happening. This is a difficult man but not an abusive one. No one's life or mental state is in danger here. He does not speak disrespectfully to me and is not abusive in any way. He just does not help around the house. Is that grounds to leave a husband? No. Should I demand my way relentlessly? I did so for years to no avail. So what then, leave him or learn to find joy and sanctity in the situation? I did not marry my husband with an escape clause that if he did not help around the house, he was history. I promised God that I would love him and I will continue to perservere even when difficult.
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MicheleQ
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This is obviously a touchy subject and we all bring to it our personal experiences.
I think we would all agree that in some cases all you can do it joyfully submit and grow in holiness from that. But those examples, sad as they are, aren't ordinary - they're extraordinary. And what you do in an extraordinary circumstance isn't the measure for the ordinary. The question is "what is the norm?" This is why I quoted from the Catechism yesterday. This is our guide of how things SHOULD be and what we should strive for. We will oftentimes fall short of the mark and as the two examples given show it won't always be our fault, so we make the best of it and God uses that for our good. That's beautiful but we can't use it as an example of what's best.
Of course a husband SHOULD help and certainly the reality for many is that they don't. One doesn't negate the other. I think opposition is being set up where there isn't any. I haven't read one post yet that advocates being disrespectful to one's husband or leaving him because his behavior is less than desirable. I HAVE read plenty of posts that advocate talking to one's husband about these issues and so you should - respectfully because respect should always be a factor. That's why I recommended the book Love and Respect. Men desire, deserve and respond to respect and women can, in their very valid attempts to communicate, come across as disrespectful and thus basically shoot themselves in the foot. But when a husband is treated with respect and approached with respect they respond much better. Does it always work? No, free will is still free will and so even when approached correctly you may not get the desired result. The point is you do your part and leave their response up to them.
What we don't want to have is an either/or mentality. Either you keep your mouth shut and submit or you open it and are disrespectful. It should be both/and - both sharing what you are feeling and doing it in a respectful way. Then, (and I am just reiterating here what Red wrote earlier) when all possible avenues have been exhausted (which might just mean dh refuses to change) THEN it becomes a matter of learning to simply accept one's situation and live it joyfully.
I do want to make one clarification here. In matters of sin, we have an obligation to correct (though it should always be done respectfully). In matters of grave sin, we might be obliged to demand as well, for the sake of our own safety and that of our children. We can't force another to do what is right, though we can allow them to suffer the negative consequences of their stubborn bad will. We can leave if we must. That comes down to respecting life: our own and that of others, especially those in our care. That's an extreme example but it's real and needs to be clear in case it isn't.
All of this being said, we have to keep in mind that every situation is different and one must weigh one's options with prayer and ideally, spiritual direction.
God bless,
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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mary theresa
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MicheleQ wrote:
Of course a husband SHOULD help and certainly the reality for many is that they don't. One doesn't negate the other. I think opposition is being set up where there isn't any. I haven't read one post yet that indicates being disrespectful to one's husband or leaving him because his behavior is less than desirable. I HAVE read plenty of posts that advocate talking to one's husband about these issues and so you should - respectfully because respect should always be a factor.
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I agree with this! Not one person here is advocating leaving their husband or discontinuing to stand by him through thick and thin because that is what we all promised.
I think most of everyone is saying is not TRULY in opposition to anyone else. Everyone is different and everyone has a different husband. There are always going to be marriages where some part of it is more ideal than the next marriage. What is ideal is different than what at we as individual women may have to shoulder or cope with based on our own or our husbands human failings. Same goes from the husbands' p-o-v.
Can we not identify and recognize the ideal and even still hope for it at all times, even while we strive to lovingly and joyfully accept our lot in this vale of tears at the same time?
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Mary Theresa
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lapazfarm
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I guess we all have our limits.
To me there is a difference in not "helping around the house" and not even using the common courtesy of picking up after one's self.
My dh does very little by way of housework. This is fair, because I do not have to go to work every day. It seems like a good trade-off to me. This does not mean,however, that he leaves a trail of messes everywhere he goes. He is not a 2 year old, after all. And when he sees me working hard to provide a good meal, take care of little ones, and clean up messes, he is more than happy to lend a hand. Because he loves me, and that is what love does.
Anonymous 2, in your situation I wouldn't have been demanding either. Depression like your husband suffers is debilitating, indeed. What he needed is what you gave him. Thanks be to God. And I never said anyone wasn't trying or that it was her fault.
Anonymous 1, I do believe I said I was happy that you worked it out as you did. I was in no way advising anyone to pack up and leave their husbands, (though I recognize that this may be what it takes to save a marriage in extreme cases).
I am just saying that we need to be careful advising women to just take it all in the name of submission. You said that we should not "expect" our husbands to help us. That's what I disagree with you about. I think we should.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Lissa
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lapazfarm wrote:
I guess we all have our limits.
To me there is a difference in not "helping around the house" and not even using the common courtesy of picking up after one's self.
My dh does very little by way of housework. This is fair, because I do not have to go to work every day. It seems like a good trade-off to me. This does not mean,however, that he leaves a trail of messes everywhere he goes. He is not a 2 year old, after all. And when he sees me working hard to provide a good meal, take care of little ones, and clean up messes, he is more than happy to lend a hand. Because he loves me, and that is what love does.
Anonymous 2, in your situation I wouldn't have been demanding either. Depression like your husband suffers is debilitating, indeed. What he needed is what you gave him. Thanks be to God. And I never said anyone wasn't trying or that it was her fault.
Anonymous 1, I do believe I said I was happy that you worked it out as you did. I was in no way advising anyone to pack up and leave their husbands, (though I recognize that this may be what it takes to save a marriage in extreme cases).
I am just saying that we need to be careful advising women to just take it all in the name of submission. You said that we should not "expect" our husbands to help us. That's what I disagree with you about. I think we should.
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I don't know, Theresa, I think I would say that we shouldn't *expect* help. If a husband is inclined to help, fantastic. But I see my role as truly supportive, and I've found that the times my marriage has hit bumps has been when I've been operating from a sense of he *ought* to be doing such and such, he *ought* to be doing this or that. That sense of expectation, you know. What I find is that when I'm coming from that perspective, I'm thinking more like a mother (his mother) than a wife. I get resentful and cross.
Life is so much better, our marriage so much more joyful, when I drop that sense of expectation. Scott DOES help out quite a lot (and there were years before this move when we split the housework *and* the writing-for-income fifty/fifty)--but even then, if I'm *expecting* certain behavior from him, that's when tension enters the picture. Because honestly, even when he is helping a lot, he doesn't necessarily do things on MY schedule or the way I would do them myself.
We started out from a total "partnership" perspective, but what that really meant was that I would nudge things in the direction I thought they should go. And you know Scott's a pretty liberal guy; he dislikes the whole concept of wifely submission. He's much more of a feminist than I am. 
BUT. A couple of years ago, I took a good look at the roles we were settling into, and I didn't like the way the picture was shaping up--too much nagging on my part because he wasn't meeting my expectations as to housework, etc.
Pondering what the Church and the Bible have to say on the submission issue really made my head spin. Seeing myself as HIS helper, not the other way around, was a gigantic mental shift for me. But I made it (and didn't tell him), and changed the way I was behaving. The very idea that *I* should be the one to change was hard for me to swallow.
And what happened amazed me. Almost instantly, the dynamic changed, the tension disappeared, and the man was walking around like his feet had wings. He felt so showered with love--and really, it wasn't that I was *adding* something (being more loving, I mean--I was always mushy with him!); it was that I got rid of something. I think most of what I got rid of was an internal dialogue that unconsciously affected my attitude and demeanor, a script constantly playing in my head about what he was doing vs. what I thought he ought to be doing. When I ditched the script, and just reacted with joy to each thing he DID, whenever and however he did it, he felt the difference. After a week or so, he asked me what was going on--and even the way he phrased the question was telling, I think: "What did I do to deserve this?"--the "this" being smiles and an absence of nudging, nagging, or assigning.
I guess what I'm getting at is that even coming from his more liberal, feminist perspective, Scott felt overwhelmed with love for me and overwhelmingly loved BY me when I shifted my own perspective from a place of expecting him to do certain things to one of cheerfully accepting whatever he did do.
I hope this makes sense!
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Lissa
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JennGM
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Lissa wrote:
| I don't know, Theresa, I think I would say that we shouldn't *expect* help. If a husband is inclined to help, fantastic. But I see my role as truly supportive, and I've found that the times my marriage has hit bumps has been when I've been operating from a sense of he *ought* to be doing such and such, he *ought* to be doing this or that. That sense of expectation, you know. What I find is that when I'm coming from that perspective, I'm thinking more like a mother (his mother) than a wife. I get resentful and cross. |
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Lissa, I was saying something similar quite a few posts back. It's the "expecting" that can make one resentful. I need to appreciate the help, but NOT expect it. Thanks for wording it better than I could.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Red Cardigan
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It may be quibbling over semantics at this point, but I'd like to focus on that word, "expect."
Do I expect my husband to help? Absolutely!
Do I expect him to do things that ordinarily are "my" job? Not at all.
Do I appreciate it when he pitches in with those things anyway out of love for me and our family? Oh, boy, do I! 
The "expect" part of the equation is something each couple has to work out. I have always found open communication the best way to do this, but some families may approach this differently. My DH from day one just considered certain tasks to be "his" job. For example, when we lived in apartments he always considered it up to him to take the trash out, since he had to walk it a considerable distance to a Dumpster in a not-so-safe area. He honestly would have been upset with me if I'd tried to do it while he was gone at work (especially since by the time I quit my job I was quite pregnant with #1).
Once we had houses, he's always done the yardwork, because I've got awful allergies and he'd rather I wasn't miserable for several days. Also, he's lots taller than me, so he does the painting when we paint a room--he can paint a room in less than half the time I can! There are other areas that are "his" and I totally appreciate all of them.
Like I said, though, I don't expect his help in other areas. I'm glad when he offers it, but I don't grump around waiting for it. And if for some reason I really need his help (illness, whatever) and he doesn't notice, then I'll ask. It's pretty simple, really!
To me, none of that really has to do with submission. It has to do with love, respect, openness, honesty, good communication, appreciation for each other, and the ability to compromise, all of which I see as essential to a happy marriage.
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JennGM
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Red Cardigan wrote:
It may be quibbling over semantics at this point, but I'd like to focus on that word, "expect."
Do I expect my husband to help? Absolutely!
Do I expect him to do things that ordinarily are "my" job? Not at all. |
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That was my point. In ordinary circumstances (like Michele mentions) we have our roles drawn. We don't do 50/50. I stay at home, so I take care of the house and children. I shouldn't "expect" him to help me with MY jobs. I appreciate the help, but when I start expecting that he's going to bathe my son every night, that's when he gets resentful.
Your examples are similiar to our marriage. Dh does yardwork and the garbage, traditional men's jobs.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Family in Feast and Feria
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Matilda
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Speaking as someone who has just been reading this conversation, I feel the need to once again, commend everyone for their charity and courtesy in discussing a difficult subject.
I also wanted to say that it seems to me that most of the women here are saying the same thing... you just seem to be saying it in different ways.
Maybe it is just semantics as Red said, but it would be interesting to find a Catholic definition of "submission" from a trusted source. I believe you all would probably find that you agree more than you think you do.
Lisa's example is a beautiful one and one that I can relate to myself, but I wouldn't call that "submission". When it happened in my life, it had more to do with breaking patterns of behavior instilled in me by incredibly selfish people who didn't really understand what a healthy relationship was and a realization that I needed to treat people in general, but specifically my husband, better than I had been. Maybe it was "submission" and I just didn't know it.
Now, it seems as though the word "expect" needs a definition too since it has this negative connotation surrounding it which I think would again have more to do with attitude than expectation. I don't "expect" my husband to mow the lawn (as in I will be bitter and angry if he doesn't), but if he didn't (for no good reason), I also don't provide for the maintenance myself but he doesn't expect me to either. (We can't afford to pay someone and the days of strapping the baby to my back are over.) When he was terribly busy and traveling more ( and we had fewer children to care for) I would surprise him by doing it myself, but he still considered it his job.
Attitude is everything, I agree. Should my DH ever come to me and say, "My knees are giving out and my back is shot and I just don't think I can mow the yard anymore, could we talk about what other options there are?" I would gladly discuss options and even offer to take on the burden until our son was old enough to try. But should he come to me out of the clear blue with no justifiable reason (like depression or other mental health issues) and say,"I don't think I should have to mow the lawn anymore because I don't want to do it. It should be your job now and oh... if it isn't done at least once a week, I'm going to be annoyed and upset."
That would make me feel less than human.
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MrsKey
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Wow. Quite a topic.
On the issue of expectations. I think that it is perfectly acceptable to expect certain things from our spouses.
I think in marriage that each couple has a right to expect the other to fulfill their part of the marriage covenant. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with expecting to be treated with respect.
My husband and I have sat down together to discuss what is and isn't a priority in our marriage. We have defined our roles and responsibilities. We did this together. And we each expect the other to fulfill their role and responsibilities more often than not.
I expect him to keep the vows he made at our wedding and he expects the same from me. I expect him to keep his word and his promises. I expect him to treat me well at all times, just as he expects that I will do the same for him.
And yes, I even expect him to help me with things that might normally be considered "my job." We agreed at the beginning of our marriage that if I cook dinner he would take care of cleaning up the dishes. He offered this and I gladly accepted. We have agreed that if I make sure the laundry gets done he will do most of the folding. Again he offered to do this.
So I expect that he will, more often than not, uphold his end of that bargain. Just as he expects me to cook and run the laundry.
I also expect that if I am unable to finish certain tasks (for any reason) I can ask for his assistance and if he is able he will help me. I expect this because it is a reciprocal arrangement. He knows he can ask me for help at any time.
Expectations are not really a problem if they are well communicated and reasonable.
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Carole
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hylabrook1
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This is such an interesting discussion. Believe me, I have done (and continue to do) my share of the kind of expecting that so easily ends in resenting.  Still, the goal I hold out is this: Marriage is NOT 50/50; it is 100/100. I can only control my own behavior, so I, prayerfully and relying on the grace of the sacrament of matrimony, try to give my 100%. I must hope, pray, encourage, and trust dh to give his 100% as well. I cannot compel him to give that 100%, but by being generally disposed to love and encourage him, I can make it easier for him to do his part. Exactly how that works out may vary on a case by case basis, but what leads to the proper balance in our marriage is that disposition.
Peace,
Nancy
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amyable
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It's funny the thread should turn to "expectations" ...having started the thread I guess it's clear I have "expectations" but dh and I always talk about NOT having expectations of one another - that is how to get hurt. Guess I didn't take my own advice -- or more likely, I don't think I realized I *did* have expectations.
Talking semantics, I think people are understanding "submission" to be different things - or at least points on a contiuum. When I first started learning about submission, we assumed and acted as if it was as some have described here -- we'd talk about big issues, and if we disagreed, I would defer to what he wanted.
Over time, we have changed. I'm not exactly sure whether it is for the better (hence my opening post). Now, I aim to please him in as many things as possible, despite what it does to me. I do feel this is submission, it is just submission in the small things also.
For example, this weekend dh wants to take us to the local children's museum for a day because my dd won a family membership and he wants to "get it in" before the baby is born. Well, I am sick both with a cold/bronchitis and pregnancy wise. His two options are to go with all of us, or leave me home with the two youngest. Both of which would probably be equally as exhausting for me at this point, lol. There is no talk of him NOT going because it would be better for me (although I know for a fact he *knows* that is an option - he is just not presenting it to me as a choice).
I don't *want* to do either one. But I will pick one or the other -- I will submit to his desires on this, as I do in 1,000 other ways. Knowing that he is really a wonderful and caring man, and that he loves me very much, I have to think that these matters are very important to him (such as having a lot of "family fun"), even though I think it all rather silly.  I think this is akin to where Elizabeth was posting that she would do the dishes because it would please her husband - I'm assuming she would also try very hard to make sure they were done even if she was feeling awful, if it is important to him.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I'm taking this all to some crazy extreme. I *could* say to dh, "I don't feel well and you just CAN'T go to the museum!" In my heart I think I've just moved down to a more submissive form of submission, which is not necessarily a bad thing, is it?
In my case it has turned into the "martyr complex" problem, because my children also do not help much, and at least the older two are all about having fun over observing others' needs, and I am a big "acts of service" type of personality, where I seem to only feel love when people are helping carry my burden. So I'm "interpreting" all this as being unloved/uncared for. "My bad" as my dh would say. They are good people, they just don't understand my love language. 
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Elizabeth
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amyable wrote:
| I am a big "acts of service" type of personality, where I seem to only feel love when people are helping carry my burden. So I'm "interpreting" all this as being unloved/uncared for. "My bad" as my dh would say. They are good people, they just don't understand my love language. |
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I could have written that. And I think that knowing this about yourself AND identifying your husband's love language (so that you don't miss his saying "I Love You" and so you don't missing speaking that language to him) is really critical to joy in marriage.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Jane Ramsey
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lapazfarm wrote:
Sorry, Anonymous, but I couldn't disagree more. It certainly SHOULD be expected. I do thank God I have a husband who is happy to help. If I didn't I would do everything I could to get him to see that he should. And I wouldn't let up until I got it. Nagging? It is NOT nagging to demand to be treated with respect. I deserve better than to be treated as a doormat by some slob who cannot be bothered to pick up after himself. That is not showing love, that is showing pure disrespect and contempt for me and all I do. I really dislike it when women are told they need to put up with emotionally abusive, lazy husbands using "submission" as an excuse. That is not what submission is meant to be about. |
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Anonymous, I totally understand where you're coming from, and Theresa, I think your response was a bit harsh.
Believe it or not, some people are just naturally disorganized and have a hard time "picking up after themselves", for example, people with ADD. They are not lazy and they are not slobs. Neither are they abusive or disrespectful. They just function differently. And demanding things from them is not the way to go.
Anonymous 1 has found peace in accepting her husband's faults and failings. He probably has many wonderful qualities that make up for them. You don't need to say that she's being a doormat. I think that was very unfair.
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Elizabeth
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Jane Ramsey wrote:
Believe it or not, some people are just naturally disorganized and have a hard time "picking up after themselves", for example, people with ADD. They are not lazy and they are not slobs. Neither are they abusive or disrespectful. They just function differently. And demanding things from them is not the way to go. |
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This quote reminded me how much it helped me to read Driven to Distraction, Delivered From Distraction, and You Mean I'm not Lazy Stupid or Crazy?. They are not books on submission,but after by reading them, I was able to empathize in a way I never had before. I understood that my husband wasn't lazy and that I could indeed be a helpmeet in a very specific way for him. He definitely has Attention Deficit Disorder and it affects everything about the way we live. I acknowledge that and minister to that, just the way that he always sits on my lefthand side when he wants me to hear him because he knows that I can't hear on my righthand side. ADD went undiagnosed for a long time and there was much room for misunderstanding each other. These books, together with the books on submission already noted, really helped me grow into the kind of wife God intends for my husband. It's far from perfect, but we are making progress.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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LisaC
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Edit: The ADD posts were not there when I wrote mine. PLEASE do not think I am addressing husbands with ADD in the following post!
Wifely Submission and Respect, Respect and Wifely Submission, can't we have both?
I realize that some women feel they can't *expect* much from their husbands in the area of the home, but how does something like cleaning up after his "whiskers in the sink" for example, (and this is simply one example of 'help' around the home, of course there is a multitude and many levels of 'help' as witnessed in all these posts) become an issue of submission?
Let's look at the "whiskers in the sink" as an example. We are currently in a rental home on a one year job assignment for my husband and we have only one sink in the master bath. Back home we have two and my husband can leave his sink however he wants, and let me tell you, whiskers there abounded. He also cleaned his own sink when he felt it necessary. Now that we have one sink I clean it but I have asked him to do a daily 'dusting' off of his whiskers. I provided the towel and the place to hang it, all he has to do is a quick swipe. Some days he forgets, more often in the beginning of our new situation, but very rarely now. I never got mad or huffy about it, because I know he just wasn't used to doing it and didn't think about it. However, by the same token, I don't want to wake up to stubble all over my sink. So each time he forgot I would casually mention it to him, and I would have to say that I would do that for anything like that. It is only courteous that he dust off his stubble and as a courteous gentleman it is a good thing for him to do. Yes I *expect* him to do it and yes, if he didn't do it I would "casually" remind him to do it ad infinitum until he got in the habit because it is a good and right thing for him to do.
I think what might most upset some of us is when we hear excuses for the lack of the good and right habits that we *expect* from our spouses (and frankly our children too, for that is what we try to teach them) in the name of submission.
I think it is respectful and loving for my husband to treat me with courtesy, and vice versa. I know this doesn't address all the other finer points or issues brought up in this thread. This just touches on those points where there is some confusion between issues of courteous, and respectful habits in the home and "submission".
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msclavel
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Jane Ramsey wrote:
Believe it or not, some people are just naturally disorganized and have a hard time "picking up after themselves", for example, people with ADD. They are not lazy and they are not slobs. Neither are they abusive or disrespectful. They just function differently. And demanding things from them is not the way to go.
Anonymous 1 has found peace in accepting her husband's faults and failings. He probably has many wonderful qualities that make up for them. |
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Jane you captured perfectly something I have been trying to find the words for. My dh can be well, quirky. There are some odd things about his temperament and how he adapts to certain situations. His family life growing up was about as completely opposite as I can imagine from mine. These things are all a part of who he is and the more I have tried to meet his needs instead of demanding that he grow/change to meet mine, the more joy we have found in each other and our marriage.
Which is not to say that he doesn't do amazing and wonderful things for me. I had complete freedom to be with my parents at the beginning of the week. He arranged his work so he could be with the other children. When I expressed my guilt he firmly told me that he would do whatever I needed him to do. My sister is staying with us this weekend. One of his quirks is he hates houseguests, any houseguests (his family had a constant stream of people living with them, I don't think he ever felt that his home was his home), but he gracefully and lovingly welcomed her.
But, day to day I know he will not be cooking any meals, putting the children to bed or not leave his shirts at the bottom of the steps when he comes home. He will still want me to get up out of my comfy bed at 10 pm every night to be with him in the kitchen when he gives himself his insulin. He will still expect me to makes his lunch on the days he works from home.
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doris
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So much food for thought here, and so much wisdom and good examples!
I'm no expert on any of this, but a few things chimed with me. Mainly that we have to start with ourselves -- get the plank out of our own eye etc etc. Trouble is, we often can't see what it is that *we're* doing wrong, in what ways *we're* not speaking the other's love language.
Also -- as Maria said above -- so much of what we expect is down to our own family experience, and our temperament.
Another thing is that a lot depends on our attitude -- as Lissa suggested above. 'The Lord loves a cheerful giver!' The other evening I was desperate to have the house tidy for once for dh to come home to. The children weren't co-operating and I was in a foul temper. He came home and I poured out my woes to him, and he pointed out that he'd rather have a cheerful wife than an immaculate home... Temperament again!
I'm sure this isn't taking the discussion forward much... I'm still a novice after 12 years of marriage!
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Home educating in London, UK with dd (2000) ds (2002), dd (2004), ds (2008) and dd (2011).
Frabjous Days
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lapazfarm
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Well I apologize profusely for sounding harsh. Sometimes it is hard to convey feeling through this medium, which is why I waited so long to jump into this conversation to begin with. Guess I should have stayed out altogether. But really what I meant to convey (obviously ineptly) was not condemnation, but true concern. I do hate to see you lovely women suffer and wish we all could be treated like princesses. For those who have to endure difficult relationships I only mean to express my deepest concern for their own personal dignity. I have come to love each of the women on this board so much, as if we were true friends, rather than just a faceless internet presence made up of words on a screen.I guess I get a bit overprotective and my first reaction tends to be to come to the defense of my friends, in a mama bear sort of way. So very sorry to sound harsh. It truly was not meant to be that way.
Lissa, I hear what you are saying. In truth, what you describe is exactly the way I deal with my husband. I guess we are just have different concepts of "expectation." I don't see expectation as a negative at all. Perhaps a better word would be confidence. I have confidence that my husband will do whatever he can, to the best of his abilities, out of love. And I think he has the same confidence in (or expectation of) me. At least I hope so.
I am going to bow out of this conversation now. I don't want to risk causing more hurt feelings.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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Anonymous
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from the first anonymous poster
lapazfarm wrote:
Well I apologize profusely for sounding harsh. Sometimes it is hard to convey feeling through this medium, which is why I waited so long to jump into this conversation to begin with. Guess I should have stayed out altogether. But really what I meant to convey (obviously ineptly) was not condemnation, but true concern. I do hate to see you lovely women suffer and wish we all could be treated like princesses. For those who have to endure difficult relationships I only mean to express my deepest concern for their own personal dignity. I have come to love each of the women on this board so much, as if we were true friends, rather than just a faceless internet presence made up of words on a screen.I guess I get a bit overprotective and my first reaction tends to be to come to the defense of my friends, in a mama bear sort of way. So very sorry to sound harsh. It truly was not meant to be that way. |
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Please don't give it another thought, Theresa. You are passionate and protective of your friends. I often feel the same way towards my own friends so I really do understand. Please know that any suffering that occurs in my home is not with a sense of despair but of joy. It has not always that way, as I shared. I used to nag, admonish and demand my own way. I think that made things much worse. Now that I am trying to lovingly abandon my own will, I am happier. You are kind to apologize and there are no hard feelings here.
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Are there Catholic books on wife's role?
