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SuzanneG
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amyable wrote:
Seriously though - At the risk of turning this thread into "Amy's Online Marriage Therapy Session", I'm going to continue. Partially because I know other (more silent) members of this board struggle with these issues and reading threads like this is helpful for them (as it is for me!).
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Yes, Amy....thank you, thank you for continuing! This is a great thread and very helpful. The concrete examples and dialogue help very much.
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Suzanne in ID
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Red Cardigan
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Lisbet wrote:
Okay, just to throw another 'coal on the fire' so to speak, isn't the best way to do this by our own example? Are we responsible for them 'getting it'? |
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We can, and do, teach by example, I think. But in the context of busy home life we sometimes have to ask for help, or remind our children (and even DH, on occasion!) that we need them to do some specific chore or task.
Even the most helpful man in the world won't always see what needs to be done; and children's standards of "clean" are seldom what Mom's are, after all! 
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Mary G
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The BEST book, and noone has mentioned it yet (?) is Alice VonHildebrand's The Privilege of Being a Woman -- this is a GREAT treatise on what we all should be doing and why.
A close second would be Genevieve Kinecke's book, The Authentic Catholic Woman -- skip the intro by Christopher West (which is REALLY insipid) and read the rest of the book -- really well done!
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MaryG
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Elizabeth
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amyable wrote:
Of course, I always *do* wind up thinking of my own wants, because I'm a very selfish person  , and wind up crying every weekend because everyone else got their needs AND wants met and I barely got my needs met. (can someone say big martyr complex?? ) Yes, I'm pretty hormonal lately, lol. |
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Amy,
I have zero computer time this week--busy submitting my will  . So, with my limited three minutes, I want to share just one thing: when we truly submit our wills, we don't end up doing this (above) because our will is our husband's will. So, it can be all joyful. The thing is, it's harder even to submit to a flesh and blood husband sometimes than it is to try to join our will to God's. The key, I think, is to pray for the conviction that God's will is submission and to ask for the grace to submit joyfully. It's a process; and there are bound to be afternoons of exhausted whining (at least internally), but as you progress, you do begin to see the wisdom of the plan and you can see how it's God's will for you to submit and then, it's easier because God smiles on you for wanting to do His will. <insert St. Therese quote that evades me here: about how God is just waiting for you to submit to Him and then He gives you everything>
I didn't do a very good job of this today, but I 've got to think that's God's will too. I'm off to be a wife and mom and obviously, God doesn't want me at the computer this morning.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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mary theresa
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Amy, thank you for your honest bravery in starting and continuing this thread. I have found much wisdom here and much I needed to hear as well. I have only been married for two years, so I do not have much wisdom but I wanted to third what Jenn and Michelle said about "I Believe in Love" This book revolutionized the way I look at Jesus and I read it over and over. The author ( a priest, I can't remember his name ) takes St. Therese and enlarges her philosophy in such clear and earnestly convincing words . . . i really can't describe it, you just have to read it.
Rarely anything has made me feel more truly and deeply loved than the words of that book, the words that Jesus speaks through the holy priest that writes it.
God bless you Amy! Thank you again for this thread. You are not alone.
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Mary Theresa
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LisaC
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I know I am late to post to this thread but I had some questions.
Elizabeth wrote:
| So, with my limited three minutes, I want to share just one thing: when we truly submit our wills, we don't end up doing this (above) because our will is our husband's will. So, it can be all joyful. The thing is, it's harder even to submit to a flesh and blood husband sometimes than it is to try to join our will to God's. The key, I think, is to pray for the conviction that God's will is submission and to ask for the grace to submit joyfully. It's a process; and there are bound to be afternoons of exhausted whining (at least internally), but as you progress, you do begin to see the wisdom of the plan and you can see how it's God's will for you to submit and then, it's easier because God smiles on you for wanting to do His will. |
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I am new to this forum but I have been reading a lot…Elizabeth you are a very gifted writer and I love your website. This thread has been very INTERESTING to say the least. I struggle with a lot of these very same issues all the time. Can anyone comment on my thoughts regarding what Elizabeth wrote on this subject of submitting to our “husband’s will”. Is his will ever wrong? What exactly is meant by submitting to our husband’s “will”?
I am going to exaggerate here to make a point (though it may not be too much of an exaggeration based on what I’ve read on this thread!): Say your husband refuses to do any housework and is perfectly happy to sit around or do what he wants until dinner is ready, his clothes are washed, folded and put away, the house is cleaned and the kids are taken care of…even if that means you are up until 11pm at night and up again at 5:30 in the am, while he is in bed at 9:30pm. Is this submitting to his “will” because he does not “will” to help out?
Having said that, that is not MY husband, but it could have been. My husband does help out but I do have to ask him. My problem is I am not affirming or appreciative enough when he does help out. I know, my bad.
However, I have seen it happen as I have described it …i.e., family of origin; and like I said, it ‘could’ have been my husband.
Already I feel like I am putting myself out there because I fear that some of the answers will be "yes, even if that is your situation, you must submit joyfully." A hard pill to swallow! Do all those wonderful books everyone has recommended put forth those same ideas?
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Red Cardigan
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Lisa, I haven't read most of the books mentioned, but what you described is definitely not my take on submission to a husband's will.
I believe that the proper time and place for submission comes when a couple has an honest disagreement about something that affects them both. The husband should put forth his reasons for wanting to go a certain direction; he should encourage and respect his wife's input; they should consider a compromise if that is possible; but in the end, if they still disagree, the wife should be prepared to accept her husband's decision as the head of the family.
Let's take a slightly silly example. Suppose a husband and wife have been saving up a sum of money for a family vacation, but before they can go one of their toddlers pours red ink all over their already ten-year-old sofa. The wife wishes to use some vacation money to buy a new sofa; the husband thinks a slipcover will work for now, and that the trip is important for the family's peace and harmony. They can both make their case, they can discuss whether an inexpensive couch and a slightly less expensive vacation might work, but if they really can't agree the wife should be prepared to accept her husband's decision. Of course, the properly disposed husband will approach the matter in charity; if all the furniture is old and falling apart except his personal chair then he may need to reexamine his priorities; but if they have three toddlers under age five, and he's thinking it would be better to wait a few years before trying the "new couch" thing, especially if the wife has her heart set on a white couch with a delicate pastel floral print--well, you get the idea; she might also need to rethink her priorities.
To me it seems clear that the wife needn't ask for her husband's input on every little household decision that needs to be made (how paralyzing that would be!) nor does she have to "submit" to his laziness or inattention to her needs. She's doing him no favors at all if she does.
OTOH, the wife who greets her husband at the door every night with a "honeydo" list and an attitude that since he's "just" been sitting around in an office all day he can clearly pitch in with laundry, dishes, etc. might need to consider whether she's really being fair, too.
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LisaC
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Red Cardigan,
Well and clearly said, and I agree! Now I see the reason for my confusion. “Amy’s lament” (Can I call it that? It has a nice ring to it.) seems more akin to my “exaggeration” than your “slightly silly example”. Therefore I was perplexed when several responses veered more towards wifely submission than …well geez, I don’t know what to call it, but we all struggle with it. Amy is definitely not alone, but I don’t think she is talking about submission.
Here’s my take on it. If we start with the fact that we all have good husbands, faithful men who work hard to provide for their family, then what is left? When we feel that our husbands are being “lazy” or “inattentive” or “unappreciative” maybe we just need to say, yeah, so what? We are that way too sometimes. I doubt someone plans to be lazy or inattentive, and nothing perturbs my husband more than when I assume bad intentions on his part! Here is where all those good book recommendations come in handy. How do you approach your husband with those difficult issues and feelings? We do need to do it with kindness and patience, but we don’t need to lie down and be a doormat. Also, we may need to be incredibly persistent, the squeaky wheel; but still kind and patient and we need to pray.
Also, it seems that Amy is feeling quite alone in her sacrifices. I have used this word with my husband, I tell him what I want is solidarity: def. A union of interests, purposes, or sympathies among members of a group; fellowship of responsibilities and interests. I want to know that he is willing to get down beside me and scrub the toilet if I need the help, and not that this type of work is okay for me but beneath him. He may not have to do all that I do, but that he is willing to do it, is important to me. Likewise for him; he likes to know that if he needs help with the yardwork I will stand beside him and help.
Lastly, I have often felt resentful towards my husband but when I actually sat down and thought about what would make me happier, I couldn’t really come up with a definite solution. It’s not my husband’s job to figure out what makes me happy, I need to do that for myself.
And Amy, thanks again for keeping with this thread. I too have a lot of books to read!
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JennGM
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LisaC wrote:
I am going to exaggerate here to make a point (though it may not be too much of an exaggeration based on what I’ve read on this thread!): Say your husband refuses to do any housework and is perfectly happy to sit around or do what he wants until dinner is ready, his clothes are washed, folded and put away, the house is cleaned and the kids are taken care of…even if that means you are up until 11pm at night and up again at 5:30 in the am, while he is in bed at 9:30pm. Is this submitting to his “will” because he does not “will” to help out?
Having said that, that is not MY husband, but it could have been. My husband does help out but I do have to ask him. My problem is I am not affirming or appreciative enough when he does help out. I know, my bad.
However, I have seen it happen as I have described it …i.e., family of origin; and like I said, it ‘could’ have been my husband.
Already I feel like I am putting myself out there because I fear that some of the answers will be "yes, even if that is your situation, you must submit joyfully." A hard pill to swallow! Do all those wonderful books everyone has recommended put forth those same ideas? |
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I don't have books, Lisa, but I wanted to comment. I was having a discussion with my mother this morning about this. We have a new generation of fathers nowadays. My parents, my in-laws, and most of my siblings and friends had a similar experience -- job lines were delineated more clearly. The man's role was defined, as was the woman's. And there was much less resentment if the husband didn't help out in areas, mainly because it wasn't expected. And our parents did a great job. My father wasn't less of a father or husband because he didn't change diapers or run the vacuum.
What is different now? Where did my husband learn to see the crises and mess and step in? Is it always a good thing to see the lines blurred on our roles?
I think the key word is not expecting the help. My dh does so much more around the house than our fathers did. I don't have to ask dh (he's a blessing). But I don't expect him to do anything, and I need to continue to be grateful when he does help.
I consider his job to be very hard. He rises early, has a long commute, deals with strangers in a not-perfect world and working environment. For all that I do, I at least am surrounded by the comforts of home and the people that love me (most of the time).
This isn't meant to be preachy, I'm just trying to sort out the difference for myself, and haven't come to any clear-cut solutions. Sorry for the interruption of the discussion.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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Maria B.
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LisaC wrote:
I am going to exaggerate here to make a point (though it may not be too much of an exaggeration based on what I’ve read on this thread!): Say your husband refuses to do any housework and is perfectly happy to sit around or do what he wants until dinner is ready, his clothes are washed, folded and put away, the house is cleaned and the kids are taken care of…even if that means you are up until 11pm at night and up again at 5:30 in the am, while he is in bed at 9:30pm. Is this submitting to his “will” because he does not “will” to help out?
Having said that, that is not MY husband, but it could have been. My husband does help out but I do have to ask him. My problem is I am not affirming or appreciative enough when he does help out. I know, my bad.
However, I have seen it happen as I have described it …i.e., family of origin; and like I said, it ‘could’ have been my husband. |
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Thank you Lisa for revisiting this. It could be my husband too. It took me long to learn that I need to continually ask him for help. As obvious as things seem to me (evening means kids need baths, stories read to them, kitchen cleaned up, etc.), after 22 years of marriage, he still doesn't "get it". It is not that he is trying to be selfish or inconsiderate, etc., he just is not wired that way. He has to be asked every night to do whatever I need him to do.
It is so easy to be resentful of that. I can hear myself now, "Why do I have to ask you? Why can't you just do it?" All that does is get me more upset, him angry at me and a tense evening. It is better to just accept it and ask.
Bottom line, I know my husband loves me and the kids and works hard everyday for us. He is who he is. My spouse is not going to "takeover" at night when he gets home and do it all to make me happy. Sure I am envious sometimes of those with husbands like that (when I think about it)! But that is not my husband. So, don't wish for something you can't have and love what you do have. Ask! Ask! Ask!
And always affirm him and thank him for helping out. When I do that, every once in awhile he surprises me and does step up to the plate to do some of these things without being asked.
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Maria in VA
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amyable
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LisaC wrote:
| “Amy’s lament” (Can I call it that? It has a nice ring to it.) |
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Amy
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The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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amyable
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Rebecca wrote:
There is a fine line between holy sacrifice and neglecting ones self. The former is done in secret. The latter is done, usually quite loudly, grumpily and full of resentment. When the rest of the family sees you respecting yourself and your limits, (and here I do not mean thinking ourselves *more* important than anyone else, just equally important), they will treat you the same way.
Some members of my family are conflict avoiders to the extreme that they put themselves last and then get very frustrated when no one notices their sacrifices. They toil away, without asking for help and then get frustrated when others do not join in. Or, they wait until they are exasperated and ask for help in such a huffy way that no one wants to help. The sad thing is that because they constantly put themselves last, in sort of an irritated way, the rest of the family follows suit and treats them the same way. |
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MicheleQ wrote:
Now Amy, there's a reason it's called "martyr complex" - because it's not healthy. But you already know that.
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Yes we are all called to be Saints and so are your husband and children. Are you helping them to do that? Are you mirroring joyful sacrifice for them or are you becoming resentful and teaching them that being selfless has no reward so why should they try it?
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Red Cardigan wrote:
There is a great deal of difference, in my opinion, between the virtue of Christian resignation and the vice--if that word isn't too strong--of letting oneself be a doormat. The first gives glory to God, while the second actually insults Him by acting as though we're not at all worth consideration: we, whom He died to save! The problem is that the two are unfortunately easy to confuse, and some types of sweetly pious biographies of the saints are, in my opinion, rather inclined to do this.
Holiness doesn't come from allowing people to walk all over us; but many saints put up with bad treatment from those in authority over them as an act of obedience and for the greater glory of God, which is not all the same thing. In the case of someone whose vocation is marriage, though, I'd agree with Michele above: part of our vocation is helping our spouses and children get to heaven, which means allowing them opportunities to serve us as well as finding opportunities to serve them.
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I hope my "overquoting" doesn't make this too difficult to read - but I thought these three quotes were similar yet different enough to all be stated together. They bring up my next question, to paraphrase Red Cardigan in regards to the saints: How ARE "being a doormat" and "letting others in authority treat us badly for the greater glory of God" different? Especially when it comes to the people we love? I don't mean to sound sarcastic, I really *don't* understand this part. Maybe I read too many saint bios, LOL. I'm not even sure what to ask - maybe for more examples to flesh this idea out?
One more thought on these quotes - does this mean that once my "burden" is getting to be too much - say I'm not feeling well - I just need to ask for help (even if I have done so every night for the past year (exaggerating here)) and if help is not forthcoming, just STOP what I'm doing and do what I *want*? Is that better than crying through putting the dishes away because I'm so tired, etc? That seems to be respecting my OWN limits but not teaching my family to sacrifice for the greater good...
LisaC wrote:
| How do you approach your husband with those difficult issues and feelings? We do need to do it with kindness and patience, but we don’t need to lie down and be a doormat. Also, we may need to be incredibly persistent, the squeaky wheel; but still kind and patient and we need to pray. |
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I think I have a lot of trouble with being "persistent". I abhor the thought of being "a nag" and want to state my needs once or maybe twice and have that be enough! I don't know if it works that way with most men though.  Is being "a nag" wrong? I am not normally nagging about tasks around the house (i.e. you *still* haven't fixed the faucet), more needing to remind about my needs ("yes, I'm still pregnant and sick, could you clean up the dishes with me tonight?" of course not worded exactly like that )
LisaC wrote:
Also, it seems that Amy is feeling quite alone in her sacrifices. I have used this word with my husband, I tell him what I want is solidarity: def. A union of interests, purposes, or sympathies among members of a group; fellowship of responsibilities and interests.
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Ahhh, yes. Solidarity is a wonderful word. We are working on that, slowly, as a family. It is a need here. I remember crying after reading something Elizabeth wrote (I think it was in the "Living Books" NACHE talk) about her family nursing each other back to health when everyone was sick. I cried, because that is SO unlike our family and SO what I would LIKE to have for our family!  I was so touched by the "teamwork" of a family that could do that. I want our family to be a team, to have solidarity and unity of purpose. My husband thinks we do when I bring it up to him - but he can't express "why" and I have trouble seeing it in the day to day workings. Just more food for thought...
Elizabeth wrote:
| The thing is, it's harder even to submit to a flesh and blood husband sometimes than it is to try to join our will to God's. The key, I think, is to pray for the conviction that God's will is submission and to ask for the grace to submit joyfully. It's a process; and there are bound to be afternoons of exhausted whining (at least internally), but as you progress, you do begin to see the wisdom of the plan and you can see how it's God's will for you to submit and then, it's easier because God smiles on you for wanting to do His will. |
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It's funny how I can understand this "in theory" and yet fail so miserably in practice!
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Amy
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The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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~Rachel~
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I think so much of the confusion has to do with the difference in personalities of our respective husbands (and ourselves).
For instance... my husband gets VERY grumpy if the house is messy when he comes home. It makes him feel bad... so I try to have it tidy when he gets home. On the other hand... he is generally the one who vacuums in the house... he has much more exacting standards than myself (I think it is the fact that I grew up the eldest of 5, and he was the youngest and his siblings left home by the time he was 5).
Perhaps the real answer is to look to the personality of our husbands.
For instance, Amy's husband (like my own) likes company to watch late night TV. I discovered that with a TV in our room, DH could watch while I slept... or I could knit (so long as I watch the screen) and DH is OK with it. I had to find the compromise point. Perhaps you Amy, might try alternating late nights with the DH and going to bed early... so one night you stay up, the next you sleep
I think the key to not being a grumpy martyr in life, is in learning the boundaries. Once we step over the edge into resentment, we are no longer being saintly but betraying our actions. At this point, it is always good to ask for help from the kids or your husband
ETA: I hope this makes sense... I am kind of tired
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LisaC
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Amyable wrote:
| One more thought on these quotes - does this mean that once my "burden" is getting to be too much - say I'm not feeling well - I just need to ask for help (even if I have done so every night for the past year (exaggerating here)) and if help is not forthcoming, just STOP what I'm doing and do what I *want*? Is that better than crying through putting the dishes away because I'm so tired, etc? |
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Hmm...I think...maybe...yes! Will your husband be upset if the dishes are left in the sink? Mine wouldn't. You are pregnant and tired, you need rest. My pregnancies are hard, I am sick and tired until I give birth, I definitely let some housework go...
Amyable wrote:
I think I have a lot of trouble with being "persistent". I abhor the thought of being "a nag" and want to state my needs once or maybe twice and have that be enough! I don't know if it works that way with most men though. Is being "a nag" wrong? I am not normally nagging about tasks around the house (i.e. you *still* haven't fixed the faucet), more needing to remind about my needs ("yes, I'm still pregnant and sick, could you clean up the dishes with me tonight?" of course not worded exactly like that )
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Persistence with kindness and no nagging...easier said than done, at least for me. I can't say I practice what I preach...not yet anyway. But I have this vision, that when I ask my husband to help with something it's like the first time I ever asked him (even though it might be the 20th) and I do it with a sweet smile, maybe even a loving touch on the arm. Doesn't sound too hard does it? See that's why I need to pray, because it is hard for me!
Rachel wrote:
I think so much of the confusion has to do with the difference in personalities of our respective husbands (and ourselves).
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Excellent point! Not to mention the differences in family size and children's ages!
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: Aug 01 2007 at 6:17am | IP Logged
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LisaC wrote:
Amyable wrote:
| One more thought on these quotes - does this mean that once my "burden" is getting to be too much - say I'm not feeling well - I just need to ask for help (even if I have done so every night for the past year (exaggerating here)) and if help is not forthcoming, just STOP what I'm doing and do what I *want*? Is that better than crying through putting the dishes away because I'm so tired, etc? |
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Hmm...I think...maybe...yes! Will your husband be upset if the dishes are left in the sink? Mine wouldn't. You are pregnant and tired, you need rest. My pregnancies are hard, I am sick and tired until I give birth, I definitely let some housework go...
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Hmmm...I can think of times in my marriage when my husband would have been upset about dishes left in a sink.It would discourage him after being away at work all day (or traveling for several days) to come home and be confronted with more work and messiness in the very home he's worked so hard to provide.I know this, because it has happened. And I can definitely think of times when I would have been upset waking to a mess. It would not occur to my husband to do those dishes, probably. That's not the way he's wired. And it would not be my nature to ask him to do them either. In hindsight, those times of total exhaustion have been my times of introspection. I've looked hard at myself and ways that I have to change in order to fulfill my duties and live up to the demands of my vocation. I call to mind life on a farm a couple centuries ago. Those women were pregnant too and life was physically demanding. But life was physically demanding for men as well and they were usually off in their own sphere. They couldn't help out--there weren't enough hours in a day. What did those women do? Is God allowing us to the point of utter wearniess so that we have to stop and assess our plans and our systems? Is He nudging us to see where we can cut something that is taking our time and energy and re-direct us to what we need to be doing? For me, the answer was usually "yes."
More often than not, when I'm exhausted and I'm disappointed in my husband, it's me that needs work and fresh perspective. I flail against that idea for a time and remind myself again and again how hard I'm working, blah, blah, blah. But eventually, I calm down and come to my senses and see that there is room for personal growth. Sometimes,that's been cutting outside activities. Sometimes, it's cutting computer activities. And sometimes--with my husband's full blessing--it's been hiring outside help and learning to manage that well. My husband works very long hours and he travels fifty percent of the time or more. He wants to come home to a house that blesses him and that's what I want. I know that a professional cleaning service isn't in the budget for every household, but creativity in perspective is.
We can keep a home that is not cluttered. (And I speak as someone who has a great deal of uncluttering to do!)We can fix and clean up after simple but pleasant meals. If those last dishes of the day are an issue, is this your season for paper cups and plates and planning for lots of meals on the grill accompanied by sides that are made ahead and chilled in the fridge? If you have nothing left at the end of the day, assume he has nothing left at the end of the day, either. Then, figure out how to move the work so that it can be managed. Does that make any sense at all?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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LisaC
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Elizabeth,
That's why I thought what Rachel said was important: different personalities, to which I added some other differences. There are also different ideas of what 'clean' means, so my husband keeps reminding me (he thinks tidy, I think nooks and crannies! )
Also, I was really responding to Amy's specific example. Maybe I wasn't specific enough , I meant letting the dishes sit until she has a moment to rest, and picking up where she left off the next morning, or the next half hour, can't be that bad. I don't advocate letting the whole house become a disaster, but just those things that can be let go. And I guess I was speaking from my own experience during pregnancy. There were times when I couldn't stand for more than 10 minutes at a time while fixing dinner (I timed it) before I felt nauseous and exhausted. So I would sit down for 10 minutes until I had the strength and then get back up again for another 10. So, I'm sorry if that came across differently, I didn't mean that she should leave the dishes and expect her husband to do it, just that she could take a break, then begin again later. You gave a lot of great ideas for dealing with some of the strain.
For some, being pregnant is like a nine month chronic illness and I think some allowances can be made. I am only so thankful and feel so blessed that my trial ends when the baby is born .
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Kim F
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One danger of the submission discussion is that we manage to submit outwardly but our hearts are still counting the cost. We are inwardly still rather rights oriented and remind ourselves subconsciously that we are doing our men this big favor, that we don't HAVE to, that he is darn lucky he didn't marry one of those other types of women who wouldn't even entertain submissive thoughts.
Many times we focus on whether or not submission seems to be "working". It is tempting to measure our success by how much we are getting back in return. The truth is we may never have the satisfaction of earthly success so we can't use that as a yardstick.
There is also a fine line between being truly patient and long-suffering or imagining yourself being put upon. I am such a slow bloomer! It has taken me 22 yrs to get to where this is less about me and my dh and more about me and God. I am so grateful God (and dh!) has been patient enough with me to grant me this many years to keep figuring it out.
There are some wonderful books recommended here but I suspect what has helped most in my marriage was reading the lives of the saints. I remember reading the Little Flowers of St Francis a long time back. He frequently spoke of embracing suffering and how suffering was true joy. I was baffled and actually the mystery of suffering is still not completely unraveled for me. It is much easier now to embrace this type of suffering however. If we were looking for ways to mortify the flesh, subdue our wills, and make reparation then there are few nicer ways to "suffer" than in the safety and comfort of our homes and marriages.
This is rambly but I guess my feeling is that it's only submission when there is joy inside. There can be pain and disappointment too but if there isn't some joy in our hearts than it's only resignation. Now we CAN fake it til we make it so I wouldn't stop trying but that it the ultimate goal.
Kim
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Elizabeth
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Lisa,
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just offering my perspective because that's all I can speak to. I spent my last pregnancy horizontal. With the exception of church on Sunday and midwife appointments, I left my house fewer than ten times. It might have been God's will for my husband to pick up the formidable slack but it might be that He had another plan. In my case, the plan was for my eldest to learn considerable grocery shopping and errand running skills, for my nine-year-old and eleven-year-old to benefit from some very specific household training and cooking lessons, and for me to accept the kindness of other women whom I never would have asked for help before that pregnancy. I think the real meaning of submission is relinquishing our notion of control--over our marriage and our spiritual lives--and listening to what God has in mind. It sounds like you were able to work out a solution that grew well in your marriage.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Kim F
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Elizabeth said:
<<figure out how to move the work so that it can be managed.>>
I have to second this. When I truly examined my life I realize that usually there were ways to be sure my dhs priorities were met. Usually it involves not being here to be frank which is why I rarely can get online at this stage of motherhood. : /
My grandmother had a habit of doing the last things first. The younger women in my family tended to smirk about this but it was a good plan! She sent my grandfather off and immediately launched into end of day prep. She figured out dinner, set the the table, dusted etc. My tasks are different given more children at home and a farm but the basic idea works. Start with the end in mind and work backwards. Get those big rocks in the jar early in the day and then you can spend any leftover time filling in the smaller pebbles.
This was crucial during pg for me since I have irritable uterus and by late afternoon was contracty. If I prepped dinner early, used disposables for lunch, and had my housekeeping done in the morning then I could nap and work with the children from the couch in the afternoons and still have some semblance of order by days end. Ironically, pgs end up being the most orderly times of my life!
It can be done. It is entirely possible that not much else will be happening. It's still ok though because once there is that peace and order established few other things are tempting. It has been an internal battle for me at times to let go of the fun or even just less drudge stuff I hoped to do and stick to the work but it's worth it.
And you know, if you truly can do it with a happy heart they DO notice. I just returned from a ten day trip with my older kids. Dh took off work to run the house and take care of the littles. I have had calls from friends and neighbors since saying dh has been raving about me far and wide after walking a mile here. It was very sweet. I know that ten or twelve years ago it wasn't so rosy. We came a long way. : )
Kim
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Bridget
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Kim F wrote:
My grandmother had a habit of doing the last things first. The younger women in my family tended to smirk about this but it was a good plan! She sent my grandfather off and immediately launched into end of day prep. She figured out dinner, set the the table, dusted etc. My tasks are different given more children at home and a farm but the basic idea works. Start with the end in mind and work backwards. Get those big rocks in the jar early in the day and then you can spend any leftover time filling in the smaller pebbles.
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This is a great perspective!
Apply this idea to any issue in a marriage. What is the main goal of the married vocation? To help each other get to heaven. Go from there.
When a problem comes up I work on detaching myself from the situation. Is it good for me to remain silent because silence will defuse a problem? Therefore not be an occasion of sin or an added burden to my husband? Or is it better for his soul that I talk to him about an issue?
That answer will be different with each couple and each situation.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: Are there Catholic books on wife's role?
