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MarieC
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
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DominaCaeli wrote:
| each parish might have a TLM each day of the week (including one on Sunday, and excluding the Triduum, of course) |
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OK...I'm the big dummy here, I guess  ....
Why can't TLM be celebrated during the Triduum? Our parish has TLM twice a month on Sundays and one evening a week and our Holy Thursday Mass is TLM.
Just checking...
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Marie
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 1:33pm | IP Logged
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MarieC wrote:
| OK...I'm the big dummy here, I guess .... |
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No, Marie--I think I'm the big dummy I was confusing the regulations re: private and public celebrations. Sorry about that.
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Celeste
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Maryan
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 1:41pm | IP Logged
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MarieC wrote:
| ...and our Holy Thursday Mass is TLM |
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I'm not sure about that... and if your parish just does Holy Thursday TLM, I'm not sure if Bridget's site addresses that... they talked about solely TLM parishes and the Triduum.
ETA: But I see Celeste cleared that up...
JennGM wrote:
| I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm looking forward to the next Motu Proprio on the 1970 Missal. What I would really like to be able to demand is the 1970 Missal Mass be done in Latin, and done well |
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Jenn, you may already know this -- but the Pope has a committee (Vox Clara) working on a "white" Roman Missal (although I don't know what that means) translated in English that has several changes including "pro multis"... They most recently met in March 2007 and will meet again in September. At each press release, the Pope thanks them and says to be expedient. I'm not sure if there's a projected "due out" date. And you're right -- implementation is another issue.
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Maryan
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Bridget
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 1:52pm | IP Logged
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MarieC wrote:
Why can't TLM be celebrated during the Triduum? Our parish has TLM twice a month on Sundays and one evening a week and our Holy Thursday Mass is TLM.
Just checking... |
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I've been like a dog on a bone with this thing and now I can't remember where I read what. 
I think the reason behind it is this. Each parish only has one Mass on Holy Thursday, one liturgy on Good Friday and one Easter Vigil. Naturally they want as many of the faithful as possible to attend those so they wish them to be in the ordinary form.
I think TLM chapels and parishes are exempt but I don't know where that leaves parishes that offer both.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Lisbet
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 1:56pm | IP Logged
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Marie, I know that we have been allowed the TLM on Holy Thursday by our bishop in the past, since our Thursday mass is normally TLM. I'm not sure how/if that changes that, it sounds to me like it doesn't!
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DominaCaeli
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 2:09pm | IP Logged
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Bridget wrote:
I've been like a dog on a bone with this thing and now I can't remember where I read what.
I think the reason behind it is this. Each parish only has one Mass on Holy Thursday, one liturgy on Good Friday and one Easter Vigil. Naturally they want as many of the faithful as possible to attend those so they wish them to be in the ordinary form.
I think TLM chapels and parishes are exempt but I don't know where that leaves parishes that offer both. |
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Bridget, I think you're remembering (maybe?) Father Z's analysis of the text. He talks about the potential reasons behind the regulation and it sounds a lot like what you have here (not wanting two Masses of the Last Supper, etc.). That's what I was remembering too. But he's referring to private Masses--that's where I got confused too in my like-a-dog-on-a-bone reading lately
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Celeste
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MarieC
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 3:24pm | IP Logged
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DominaCaeli wrote:
MarieC wrote:
| OK...I'm the big dummy here, I guess .... |
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No, Marie--I think I'm the big dummy I was confusing the regulations re: private and public celebrations. Sorry about that. |
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No, No, No....you're all so smart! Thanks to you all for clearing up my confusion.
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Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
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Maryan
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| Posted: July 13 2007 at 3:46pm | IP Logged
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Bridget wrote:
| I've been like a dog on a bone and now I can't remember where I read what. |
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Same here -- and every time my dh comes home and I try to explain what I THINK I learned/ understood/ read, I find that it's all jumbled! I need to read slower and PRINT OUT what I find.
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Maryan
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ALmom
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| Posted: July 15 2007 at 11:36am | IP Logged
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About the question of the current Mass in Latin, no special permission has ever been needed for that, so there is nothing to prevent it being offered. Again, this is dependent on a priest wanting to do this. The vatican website has an article that makes this point.
My guess is that this would be one of many things that might be encouraged knowing the Tridentine is available and not so restricted as before. It seems to me, just from what I've noticed in the discussions on this board, that wherever the Tridentine has been available, you are more likely to find Novos Ordo in Latin and very reverent English Masses available as well. Where the Tridentine is restricted, you have many more problems with liturgical abuse, much more suffering among the lay faithful who have nowhere to go and a great deal of defection (either to the Orthodox or to the schismatic elements). Good people just plain get worn down. If nothing else, a lot of hard feelings get generated and anger seeths under the surface.
As far as availability of Tridentine, I doubt very seriously if our diocese will see much difference for quite some time. I hope I am proven wrong. It would be very easy to argue (and not totally unjust) that we have a shortage of priests, no one trained to celebrate the Tridentine (and probably nowhere for them to offer it - between the 3 or 4 English Masses, the Spanish and the Korean Mass)and not enough people in any one parish to request it - we are spread all over the state. Now to bring in the Priestly Fraternity or somewhere like that, there would have to be funding (and we already are bringing in priests from India). I hope and pray we will have access to the Tridentine and I truely believe it will bring about much needed healing in our area - plus get attention for the desire for more reverence in general. Even knowing that this is more possible now than before, even if it doesn't happen, I think, will bring some improvements.
I have longed for this Mass for a long time - but not because I am all that familiar with it. It has always seemed odd to me how the Mass of so many Saints was viewed as somehow defective (now I know the church never saw it this way, but in the trenches that is the slam you do get). I was attracted to the many Biblical prayers - psalms at the foot of the altar, introit, etc. as I read. My only real exposure to Tridentine has been books and 2 Tridentine Masses we were able to attend before the one priest died. It has never been available in any real way here except very briefly. I simply want to be able to have my children receive the Sacraments in a dignified and reverent manner, where photography is not the focus and Christ is, where silence is honored, where we are not subjected to various experimnets with liturgy (strange, unauthorized elements or things that may be approved but just seem so inadvisable to me in terms of the lack of reverence thus generated). I want to be somewhere where a desire for this greater reverence is not viewed as hyporcracy or being judgemental of someone who prefers the children's liturgies complete with plays, etc. Our parishes have tried to accomodate and not drive away anyone - except those attached to the traditional. I think this is a wonderful and hopeful sign that we are not forgotten or marginalized. I have never questioned the validity of Vatican II or the great blessing of having a Mass in the venacular, especially for the readings, homily and those parts that are changeable. Having a Tridentine available does not mean we would not continue to try and support our Novos Ordo parish. I hope that having the Tridentine available might encourage the Holy Thursday to stick more closely to the beautiful and reverent honor and worship towards the Blessed Sacrament and skip the installation of extraordinary ministers as happens here. It might also encourage a bit more sensitivity to those of us that find it very difficult to be prayerful in the continual music without silence and the dearth of the traditional externals that are still legitimate in either Mass. Perhaps there would be a bit more thought before surprises were sprung - everything from swaying teens with boombox and balloons on the altar, photos in the aisle, chatting during the consecration, etc. some beyond the control of the priests, some probably not. I am just not particularly fond of the more folksy approach that is typically associated with "active participation" but am not judging those that find this helps them worship God. Just longing myself for something a bit more otherworldly, transcendent and the Tridentine seems to do this more - at least on the tangible experience in the ways that are typically offered. The laity has had very little recourse when reverence isn't a high priority - you cannot complain unless it is truely a serious matter, which means we have born with the trials and tribulations in an attempt to be faithful and charitable. I am so hopeful that this moto proprio, even if it doesn't even result in Tridentine availability here in the near future, will at least create a climate favorable to more attention to what is it about the Tridentine that is attracting all of us with young families and no experience with it. I really believe that one factor is the reverence, another is the Mass celebrated according to the Church's intent. This cannot help but spur quicker corrections of the rampant abuses in the Novos Ordo.
We're still waiting for a bishop so no telling when we'll have a bishop, yet alone a Tridentine Mass. Please keep our diocese in prayer as we wait - our parishes are not even praying at Mass for a new Bishop. 
Janet
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JennGM
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| Posted: July 16 2007 at 10:11am | IP Logged
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Father Z. in this post answers many of your questions.
I do think that if you have a TLM-only parish that the Triduum restrictions don't apply.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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All For Jesus
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I for one, am so grateful for this thread and all the info. I was able to glean from it! I had been feeling a little frustrated that I had been unable to take the time to really read up on this wonderful gift from the Holy Father. But, you wonderful, intelligent ladies have filled me in quite well! Thanks
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Lynn S.
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: Latin Mass
