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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 07 2007 at 8:12pm | IP Logged
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Hi Suzanne! So glad you're back home safe! We missed you here!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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ALmom
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| Posted: July 07 2007 at 11:51pm | IP Logged
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I like the idea of sharing presentation ideas. I've already asked tons of questions of Karen - BUT, it is more because I am pretty slow and not because I've read everything.
I have attempted to do the following presentations either with my dh or with my 4 yo:
tongs, ice tray and pom poms - John has been dying to get at the miniature tongs and "grease sucker" (baster). Well I discovered that my husband and I hold the tongs differently. So which way should I demonstrate? Full fisted grasp or three fingers on top and thumb curved on the bottom. Second way seems more flexible. Or perhaps there is an even better way.
Also, I have a mix of right and left handers. Do I demonstrate right handed because I am right handed and tell them to use whichever hand is most comfortable OR do I demonstrage both ways and see what happens. I'm wondering since one child in our home evidently is supposed to be left handed but began writing right handed and now needs to switch back. Several of my children have tested other handed than the one they write with and one child tested ambidexerous. Now - is this mixed handedness related to all our writing woes?
This led to the next question : How in the world do you determine accurately which hand your children should be/are by God givenness and how do you avoid indirectly pushing a handedness that isn't God given. (Examples like figuring out that scissors that can be used either way are really right handed scissors by the way the pieces are screwed together even if it is either way by cutting edge - AND they are almost impossible for left handers to cut with 'cause they cannot see what they are cutting. You have to buy true left handed scissors for mega bucks in the sewing dept.
We also attempted a lesson on opening doors. Now all my dc do open doors quite well and have been for years. We thought the idea of working on closing them quietly quite appealing. Well, again - the grasp of the doorknob is so different. My 4 yo grabs two handed. I wrap my fingers around either side of the knob. I forget how my dh did it - but it was another way. The instructions seemed to imply fingers up and curled over the top of the knob - which felt awkward to all of us. Which provides the most control? Which will develop eye-hand coordination best?
Next lesson, I simply was trying to practice myself and that was walking the line. Well, I cannot take more than 2 steps without totally falling over, esp if you are touching toe-heel SO I think I need to practice some more before attempting to actually show this one.
I also noticed that 4 yo tripped on the way to the shelving to put his tong tray back. While everything sprawled all over, he was quick to bend down and tong everything back into the tray. The idea of putting away trays exactly as they are found seems to be taking. Obviously we need to work on tray carrying, getting in and out of chairs, etc.
Well after these few exercises, I did go back and glance at instructions in several demonstrations to see if they tell you how to hold things. Most do not - sooo, am I the only one who is finding that with almost everything involving control of the body - I don't do things naturally in an efficient manner and I need some instructions on how to hold stuff. My sis who was a waitress was laughing when I told her I just learned you were supposed to lift the pitcher high (I had to practice and re-read instructions on this one several times for myself)and turn the wrist/hand. I've never poured well. She was also wondering that I never learned to cough in my elbow, wipe the table to the center and a number of other things that she just does naturally. I have always wiped the table, washed dishes, poured, etc. BUT never very efficiently and generally with lots of spills, missed cups, messes. I have a lot to learn.
I'm also wondering how much you say. How often you repeat a demonstration. For instance with the tongs, ds moves left to right on the top row but then rolls around right to left on the bottom. I keep repeating it and even "making a mistake" and correcting myself but he hasn't made the connection. Do I look for an exercise with just left right emphasis or do I just keep doing till he does make a connection. Or do I put this aside and decide that he is not quite ready yet for this one - though he is handling the tongs fine.
I'm also a bit baffled by how we are going to start at the beginning with children who need the eye-hand practice or other aspects but know most of the academic lessons. My dc have been pretty free in the house, so the 4yo has been opening medicine proof containers since 18mo or so, and getting out the door about the same time. He now knows to drag chairs, climb on them to get keys to open doors and he has already undone the screws in a bedroom door (trying to get to something in the room) so he is obviously fairly adept with a screwdriver - just not sure how he held it. 
I'm trying to get child sized items to encourage proper handling. He drags the kitchen chairs because they are too big for him to carry. He has been pouring his own milk from gallon containers for a long time - but uses a different adaptation for handling because of the weight.
Anyways, those have been a few of my ponderings so far. Nothing all that enlightening - just a lot to do with my own lack of coordination and being very focused on this aspect of things.
Janet
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Kristee
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 1:13am | IP Logged
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Hi Everyone,
I'm brand new to this forum, and I'm in the class too. Thanks to Andrea at GrayFamilyCircus. I came across your site in MM and I followed the link to montessori training. Then I was googling the teacher's name to find out more about her, and I found all of you here at 4Real with some of the same questions as me. I appreciate the enthusiasm you all have. I realized that I was just in time to sign up and catch up. Your posts on the topic confirmed to me that I should go ahead and take the class. Now here I am. It looks like it will be alot of fun,and I'm looking forward to learning alot from the group.
I just printed everything off and put the pages into sheet protectors. I'm really new to Montessori, and so I need to gather most of the materials. I have
ds 2 1/2 and ds 9mo. I'm thinking about putting the materials in a big container while I gather them and check them off the class material list. I'm really glad to have that list in the order that I will need to use the items in more or less--that is so helpful. I'm trying to decide where to purchase materials from. I'm looking at lots of different places to buy and questioning quality vs price.  I also plan to make as much as I can.
Again, I'm looking forward to joining the conversation!
Kristee
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SeaStar
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 7:26am | IP Logged
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Welcome, Kristee! Looking forward to seeing you in class.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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AndreaG
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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Kristee,
Welcome! I'm glad you found your way here, and my reccommendation of Karen Tyler was helpful to you!
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Andrea
GrayFamilyCircus
Read Through the Catechism in a Year- For Moms!
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AndreaG
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 8:02am | IP Logged
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Janet- those are really good questions- I hope Karen will shed some light on them, particularly about your son continually putting the puffballs in from the wrong direction. I never really know what to do with that either- usually if they really aren't changing I just present a different work with the same right to left idea. As far as how to hold things, I usually practice myself a few times then pick what is most efficient or what is most like the proper hold for writing- since those seem to be the two goals of practical life. I seem to remember David Gettman's Basic Montessori going into great detail about how to do practical life, maybe that would be helpful. You aren't supposed to talk very much if you can help it- supposedly it is hard for young children to process auditory and visual at the saem time.
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Andrea
GrayFamilyCircus
Read Through the Catechism in a Year- For Moms!
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Meredith
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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Welcome Kristee!! So glad to have you join us here and that you'll be doing the class as well!! There are lots of threads here on where to buy materials and organizing and making your own, so please browse away!! Delighted to have another Montessori Mom here 
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Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Janet -
I think Andrea's right about the grip thing - choose the grip that seems to be most like a writing type grip. Like for ex. with the baster, it seems the fingers on top, thumb on bottom approach would offer more control of the baster and greater potential to exercise those finger muscles working together rather than just fisting it. My Mark has a real tendency to just fist something, be it fork, pencil, tongs, and this is one skill I'm really trying to get him to work on! Now, that said, I never thought about how I gripped the doorknob, but the fingers on top, thumb on bottom approach seems awkward to me too, so I'd be interested to hear what Karen tells us there.
Both Sarah and Mark had right and left handed tendencies as young children. I didn't encourage or discourage either, but both settled comfortably on using the right hand. If you're really concerned about some confusion there, perhaps it would be prudent to watch for a Michael's or Hobby Lobby coupon and purchase one pair of left handed scissors to offer. If, after a little time with the scissors you have a child that demonstrates a real preference for left handedness, perhaps encouraging a lot of time with the metal insets using the left hand would help re-develop some of those hand control issues while at the same time training the eye and brain to come at things from the left side.
I was wondering if some simple sorting activities might help with John and ordering the left to right issues. Like showing him to line up the knobbed cylinders from tallest to shortest going from left to right. You keep the activity simple with only one line, no going from one row left to right, then down to the next row and all the way back to the left. Then, once he has mastered that, perhaps you could introduce the second row concept of dropping down and moving all the way to the left.
Regarding the trays and putting them away. I read something in Montessori in the Classroom that was striking. She spends a lot of time teaching the children to leave the tray on the table, push the chair in, then pick up the tray and walk across the floor. I think line walking will help us all move with more thought and purpose and for us, hopefully with a lot less shuffle, KWIM?
Something else that Andrea said really struck me, because it is so true, especially with my 6yo son, but I never made the connection before. Children have trouble processing auditorily and visually at the same time. I think this is so true. Simpler and quieter is best. Good thoughts Andrea, thank you! I need to try to keep that in mind!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:24am | IP Logged
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Hi Kristee! I'm glad you're here with us too!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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KackyK
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 2:54pm | IP Logged
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I'm hoping someone can help me out!
I don't know if it's because I have a Mac or what, but I wasn't able to pull up the Mathematics Materials List. It just came up as a list of several letters down the right side edge. Not very helpful 
Would anyone be up for copying theirs and pasting it into a pm for me??
Thanks for any help ladies!
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KackyK
Mom to 8 - 3 dd, 5ds & 4 babes in heaven
Beginning With the Assumption
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 7:01pm | IP Logged
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Kacky - pm me with your regular email and I can try to zap the file to you that way - from my mac  to yours
If that doesn't work - I'll copy and paste it into a pm for you!!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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KackyK
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| Posted: July 08 2007 at 8:33pm | IP Logged
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Jennifer...I just pm'ed you! I hope it worked!
Thanks!
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ALmom
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| Posted: July 09 2007 at 5:33pm | IP Logged
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Yes, Jennifer, I do have 1 pair of left handed scissors and they are larger (they don't sell safety scissors in true left handed versions anymore) and very sharp. These belong to my left handed 10 yo. I don't know if some of my olders should have been left handed (I always had the either way scissors for them) and I'd like to let John kind of come to his own. I've let him try the left handed scissors when I'm around but for safety reasons, I cannot just let him grab these anytime. He appears to be right handed and to prefer this - but I'm really concerned as it is hard to have true ease/support either way as we are in a right handed world where most things are really designed for right handers. I'm trying to relax with him, reminding myself that he does seem to have developed a very easy eye-hand coordination and does take to pencil, pen, scissors and all of this quite easily whereas my dc that are still struggling with writing still find it hard to use a fork even, yet alone pencil, scissors, etc.
I know many young children simply imitate what they see and since I'm right handed as is dh, they simply don't see any left handed and we tend to hand things with dominant hand towards the same hand to child, etc. so you are always subtley encouraging right handedness without an awareness. I'm trying to be more conscious of this when I throw/toss a ball or hand items or other things like that - trying to alternate the side of the body I reach to on the child. I do have a hard time teaching/showing writing to left handers as I have directionality problems and am trying to figure out paper slant and other such and it usually takes me a long time to recognize how to get them to do things. For instance, right handed, you show a child to hold the paper still with the left hand and this hand doesn't get in the way because the pencil moves left to right away from the stationary hand - But does a lefthander hold the paper with the right hand and then you are writing towards it and does your arm get in the way of your writing? I'm always getting confused as to whether or not there is any difference in the paper slant. Also it is hard to see what you are writing as a left hander as you are sliding your hand over what you are writing instead of behind it. I've been learning that it is important for the writing skill for the brain to be able to see what you are writing which is why pencil grip is important. As you can see, I'm on a mission to solve this handwriting issue at our house - but in a way that is not agonizing for the children but has some sort of understanding of the eye-brain-hand conncection and how this is accomplished so handwriting hopefully can become an enjoyable or at least neutral activity around here as opposed to a nightmare task.
My olders are all writing with right hand so it would be tough to change over - but after finding out that my nephew actually holds the pencil properly with the hand he does not write with and has a natural flow plus other indications of left-handedness - enough for the therapist to encourage switching his writing hand. Well, I've been thinking about one of mine who tested ambidexeterous but has horrible tension and never moves across the midline (always has stop and start even with cursive no matter how hard we work on it) and does not use his hands together. Well, I'm just wondering and wanting to know if there is some big clue in watching them work with Montessori materials as to hand preference. I've started doing some presentations left handed myself just for the fun of it to see what happens. Some, like the tongs, aren't that hard for me to do either way.
Andrea, thanks, I do believe I might just do other presentations with left - right reinforcement or even get a single line ice cube tray and then do that and then do another one and line them up and maybe we'll have an ahha experience. One of the reasons I was asking is because I normally am very verbal and I have been doing these Montessori presentations as instructed - only the introduction of the name of the activity, show it to them, let them do it and not verbal. I try to emphasize in the actual doing - so for instance - after my 4 yo consistently went left right then right left, I waited till he had finished his work and then later asked if he would like another presentation. I spent some time just letting him look at my hand and how the fingers were arranged on the tong and then I went down the rows, but stopped at the end of the first row and made sure he saw as I made a big movement across the diaganol and over to the left to start the second row. He still didn't make the connection, though I did see a correction of the tong grip. I'm not quite sure how else to show what I am doing to encourage left right without speaking - but glad of the idea to just have 1 row for a while. I'm off to look for a different kind of ice tray. I really don't want him continually repeating the right left on the second tray as I think this will set a pattern to confuse directionality and reading readiness things. I'd rather have 1 row of left to right over and over. What about top to bottom work - would doing top to bottom isolated from left to right and left to right work isolated from top bottom first work better? Just ideas.
Now, this child is not my child that has a lot of eye-hand issues, which is why I am practicing with him.  . I figure a few shakey presentations won't hurt him as badly as my olders who really struggle. I did notice some fisting tendencies and am working on encouraging a more writer type grip, but for the most part he is taking to all of these with ease and enjoying it somewhat but not spending more than a few minutes with it before putting it back on the shelf.
Maybe, I should simply post a new post on one of the general forums about handedness as, I guess this is a bit off topic for Montessori.
Janet
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4Real Forums : Nurturing the Years of Wonder
Topic: Who is signed up for the July 1st Class?
