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doris
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Excuse me if this turns into a long whinge, but I'm struggling with this one.
I heard from a friend yesterday who told me that she is expecting twins  . She also has a 1yo and is finding it very difficult to cope with looking after her and feeling sick and tired all the time. But, people from her church (evangelical Protestant) have been extremely helpful in looking after the baby and helping round the house. It was the same, incidentally, when they moved house -- lots of help from the church with unpacking boxes, etc.
I know another (Baptist) friend whose church organised *three weeks* worth of meals for her after she had her baby.
Here comes the sour grapes. I haven't had a single offer of help. When I had my last baby, no-one from church offered a single meal. Granted, a couple of people from church did babysit for us while we were househunting last year, but that is it.
So I'm wondering -- is this typical? Is it just part of being part of a church where lots of people go nominally but without enormous conviction? Or is it to do with living in a big city where everyone works really hard and has no time for anything else?
I'm really pleased for my friend but do feel jealous, and sad that it's just not like that at our church.
Thank you. I feel better for the rant...
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Lisbet
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Elizabeth, I wish I could send a dinner and a few of my kiddos over to mop your floors or something! 
Now, I don't get the help so much from our church, but I do from all of my friends and sisters in my circles. After my last 5 babies I have had meals for 3-4 weeks, I've also received meals in the early stages of pregnancy and care packages left of my front porch when we all have the flu. I try my best to do the same for those around me. It seems at least once a month I am taking a meal to a family or dropping my daughter off to scrub bathrooms and occupy toddlers.
Maybe, just maybe this is a prompting for you to start some kind of 'new mom' ministry at your parish? Just a thought. (cuz I know you don't have enough on your plate as it is!   )
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Elizabeth
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Elizabeth,
I don't think it's your imagination. My best friend is former evangelical who has been Catholic for a decade. She called me just the other day, crying because the lack of community compared to her Protestant days was overwhelming her with sorrow. And my second son's godmother used to be a Catholic and she and her husband converted to Southern Baptist about ten years ago. It was community that enticed them. Now,they are a part of a church whose community has several families who have adopted Liberian children. They are among the adopting families and that church anchors them because of the community.
I think we are being called to look closely at community and how WE can be community to one another both here and in real life.We have the fullness of the faith; we need to live it fully as members of the body of Christ.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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lapazfarm
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Very similar experiences here. Dh and i have been going to the same church (with some exceptions during our times in FL) for about 15 years. We don't have a single friend from church. And it isn't as if we are antisocial. No one there seems to hang out together, except the old folks.
I think part of the problem here is it is a very aging parish. Not so many young families here. Plus the fact that it is the only Catholic church in the county means that the members live far and wide, and may not know or see each other outside of church at all. We are basically a bunch of strangers who gather together on sundays and then go our separate ways.
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Martha
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I've had the exact same situations. I have to say I think this is the BIGGEST impediment to faith in our church and it is not a unique situation. It's like all the genuine cathlics are in hiding? Being Catholic is lonely enough in a population where you are the minority faith. Being a Catholic homeschooler, I often feel like I'm in exile. Being a Catholic homeschooler with 8 kids close together and obviously tight funds - I often feel like I live on a deserted planet among alien life forms. 
It is a constant battle to not let my faith wither on the vine, so to speak. I wasn't raised Catholic, my husband isn't catholic, I don't live in region dominated by Catholics. Mass is literally my only source for faith growth and enrichment outside of what I read on my own.
Theresa - I don't know that I'd blame it on aging population either. I know people know "of" me, but very few have friendships outside of church. They say hi at mass, might sit over a cup of coffee and a donut afterwards - but that's it. No genuine connections/friendship are made or wanted.
We just moved to this parish (one of the biggest in our state/diocese) which did a survey that just came in last month. I found it disturbing that 70-something% said they were happy with the community in our parish and 80-something% said they didn't think anyone would care or notice if they never came again.  Does this mean they think that's okay?!
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Rachel May
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We are starting Elizabeth Ministry at our parish. Maybe you could encourage something similar at yours?
Growing up Catholic, this is just how it was. Your primary friendships didn't come through church at mass; they came through the parish school or CCD or other family activities. Not ever having had it, I don't miss it, but it does make my heart ache to hear about converts who miss the community of their old churches. I always wish there were an easy answer when this topic comes up but honestly, I can hardly keep my eyes on my kids at church let alone make friends there. 
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Martha
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Oh wow. That does sound like just what is needed! what an awesome idea! I'm printing it off as I type! 
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msclavel
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Elizabeth, how sad an ocean separates us, or I too would send my girls over and cook delicious dinners for you.
My support has come through our Catholic homeschool group and the friendships I have built there. I am very blessed. On the other hand, I must say we Catholics have a long way to go in learning what it means to be community rooted in faith, where the liturgy should be at the heart, not "clubs" for our children or coffee and donuts after Mass.
Ack, I have so many thoughts on this issue, I don't know that I can organize them.
It ties into a long standing conversation my dh and I have with our best friends about what it means to truly be a Catholic community. My friend is of the opinion that it means something a bit more radical than the average parish life. It requires honesty and humility and true poverty of spirit, and I should add, perhaps genuine detachment from our material goods.
I'm not sure this makes any sense...I will hit Post...
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mary theresa
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I'm so sorry, Elizabeth!
If this helps you, in my experience I think that in general evangelicals and other protestant denominations do put alot of emphasis on the communal, fellowship and social ministry in their churches. I think this can be a compensation for what we Catholics would say that they are lacking in other areas -- we have so much wealth and richness and LIFE in Catholicism that come from other areas -- the Mass, the Eucharist, the sacraments, the liturgical year, etc. ( I hope I'm not offending anyone! ) The extra focus on the "gathering" and ministry is a way to create the unity that Catholics have more spiritually in the Body of Christ.
That's NOT to say that what everyone is saying isn't the main point:the need to find out what a true Catholic community is and how to really live it out -- in an age where TV and ipods and personal DVD players and and the internet and driving distances and hectic schedules and tons of other stuff pull people off their front porches and onto their own little islands.
In college, in the course of writing my thesis, I read alot on the early Christians and their communities and the development of the early Church and the first forms of the Mass and the sacraments, etc. I couldn't begin to go into all the insights into REAL community that I gained from that, but suffice it to say that the main feeling that comes through so much of the works on and from that period is the UNITY and the BROTHERLY LOVE and concern and the joyful sharing of suffering and faith that these little outnumbered hunted communities had. The vibrancy of it all jumps out at one immediately. They were just so crazily joyful and I would say, excited, to have this powerful uniting force that Jesus's words and message and gifts were to them. It must have been intoxicating, that first blooming of something so GOOD and beautiful that it united people for all walks of life in a totally unique way.
I think we have grown used to the amazing-ness of what Catholic unity really means and is, or maybe we never really knew.
Sorry for the ramblingness of the thoughts. I feel for you. It's hard to manufacture the community unless others are like-minded. What Martha said about the percentages of people who are fine with it staying kind of impersonal -- it's easier that way sometimes. I know for me, at the end of an exhausting Mass wrestling with my 15 month old, I don't want to chat and make friends -- I want to go home, put her to NAP and get some FOOD .
This discussion is making me think about that attitude though.
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MarilynW
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Elizabeth - I do sympathize. The whole community thing was one of the reasons I had my whole evangelical phase in my teen years. Even now we belong to a large parish - and the whole community aspect is not there (unless your kids are in the school). Neither is it there in my TORCH group. Even now on semi bedrest, it is my Protestant friends who offer help more
I used to get upset about it - but now I figure change will start with me. So I try and help and get my kids to help whenever possible. I think a lot of parishes are trying to change things by setting up smaller groups and ministries.
I do admit that I do sometimes feel lonely and miss some of the "community" from my evangelical days.That is why it is so nice to have the online friends for support. And the IRL ones I have met recently have been awesome (just wish they did not live all the way down I95!!!)
I try to figure out why too - in our area I think it is because people are so busy. I have to say though that the people who seem to offer most help (like Lisa above) are those with many children and usually not financially rich.
My main fear is that my children will be attracted away to the community in other denominations - this is why my husband and I are praying about finding a smaller parish where the kids will be more involved in the community of the parish.
On a closing note - there are angels everywhere. I called the Catholic Shop this week - I wanted to get a dvd for dh for Father's Day - he works near there so I asked them to wrap it up so he could pay for it without seeing it, as I am still on bedrest. The lady there was so sweet and offered to run it over to my house that evening!! And similar things have happened over the last couple of weeks - offers of help from complete strangers!!
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ALmom
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Your question hits a raw nerve with us sometimes because we always hear about community (it is the reason offered why our dc should be in ... fill in whatever activity is poorly chaperoned, topics inappropriate, etc.). It is also used in a global sort of way - ie join a committee as opposed to just responding to the needs that God places before you. It was the first thing listed for Confirmation prep (not prayer or anything else- prayer was at the bottom of th list in how to prepare for the Sacrament). Yet, real community doesn't seem to exist here in the parish, in general though you will find pockets. (We have it through our homeschool group). The protestants do this well - and it is not just because they are filling in for lack of Eucharist. It is because we are a community to the extent that we are bonded to Christ. Catholics should do it better considering we have the Eucharist - Christ himself. How can you get more closely bound to Christ - but somehow we no longer seem to even believe in the Real Prescence in general. Usually these Protestant churches have a very strong core that are radically committed to Christ and around here, they break off from main branches anytime the parent church becomes too lax or deviates from that radical committment to Christ. When you are attached to Christ as the head, then you serve one another as an outgrowth of this. If you turn it upside down and try to make everybody best buddies first and only later consider Christ - you never get there. People get tired of the artificial fun and games, or they already have their buddies and connections. Either people want to remain anonymous or they are pushed away for being too weird. I have often said that if I hear community mentioned one more time, I'm going to puke - but not because I don't strongly want that really Christian community in my parish - and I certainly want to help build it, but because it seems like we just won't get it right. The one time we really saw the beginnings of real community among our teens was when one priest began a Holy hour for some teens (the homeschoolers asked for it, but it was not restricted to homeschoolers). There was a bonding that began that was real. Unfortunately, the priest was transferred before we had more than 3 times and nothing has replaced it, the priests have all been switched again and we'll have to wait to see who is around next and which parish might have the time to allow us to do this again. The focus was Christ, the priest offered confessions before and after Benediction (and spent time giving real Spiritual direction not just the fast food approach). Yes, they had pizza afterwards and visited some, but this wasn't the focus or the purpose for being there. You also see it if you become a regular daily Mass attendee, more slowly because, in our situation, these are mostly grandmotherly types and we are in a different stage of life. I cannot stay after Mass to pray Divine Office with these ladies - and I don't think I could go to lunch with them. But they do this rather regularly. Another group bonded when the RENEW thing started - a group picked lives of Saints to study and have continued on long after most everyone else quits. These ladies are there for one another.
I also do think there are regional differences. Some areas are busier than others. The kind of taking care of the pregnant, sick mom/elderly person was/is a part of rural communities around here, but is a dying practice once you get into the city with the high paid and highly educated elite who maintain frantic pace in life. In our lower cost neighborhood, we watched out for one another, took meals, greeted newcomers with cookies, etc. In our higher cost area, we have only met 3 neighbors in 3 years. They literally are never here. You never see them. (Well we're here and highly visible - more like the Beverly hillbillies moving in out of our element just to have some space).
Janet
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guitarnan
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Parish size does have something to to with it, but not everything. Our last parish (45 families) was much better about community and helping...as long as the people in need of help were "locals" and "liked" by the "in" folks (there were a couple of families who left because they were criticized for having 8 kids, things like that).
Our current parish has 2300 families. Way, way too big, but that's how things are done here in Baltimore-land. We have lots of ministries, but if you don't have time to join one it is very hard to meet people.
I would suggest, though, that some Protestant groups are truly welcoming only to folks who are just like them. There were a lot of people in my WV homeschool group (unofficially an arm of a Protestant church, but without a statement of faith or anything like that...I think they assumed everyone who'd join would be from their church...!), but some of them would barely talk with me. Others were truly sweet and friendly, in spite of our faith differences.
Some of the impetus toward community has to come from people who are seeking it, IMHO. My friends with the 8 kids didn't just sit around and take the criticism. They changed parishes. In part this change was due to the lack of welcome for their musically talented girls, all of whom are now happily singing at the new parish. The girls were asking to go to the local non-denom Protestant church so they could sing with the teen group. The solution was pretty clear, even though it meant long drives every Sunday...because the alternative was children leaving the Church.
In one of my other (big) former parishes, though, we had a wonderful example of community. The music director's mom was slowly dying of emphysema. The director was single and worked full time to support herself and her mom. The county health reps told her that her mom had to have someone with her 24/7, by law, because of her health condition. The church music group and some other church members pulled together and created a schedule of people to stay with Fran (the mom) while the daughter was at work or doing grocery shopping. This went on for months, until Fran finally passed away. That's real community.
I think this desire for community has partially fed the Whole Community Catechesis movement. Many parishes lack the small-group settings needed for people to really meet and find friends.
This is a really important topic. People need to feel needed and wanted. Our Church needs everyone. Parishes need to share what works (and doesn't) so that people feel welcomed and needed.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Lisbet
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You all know what really bugs me? Once upon a time communities were built around the church. Take the Polish community in our city. The people had the church built first, then they all built their houses and businesses around it. There were two beautiful churches and two schools built with in 6 blocks of one another. Their were many Polish businesses also. All of the houses were in walking distance to church/school. They were all built with big front porches. These families were tight. They assisted at mass together, voluntered at the schools together, cooked for one another, prayed together etc...
This neighborhood, with it's two beautiful churches (one which we attened during the week when we can) is now 'inner city'. It is over run with crime. The only Polish population left there are a sparse few elderly women, who are in a dangerous environoment, are very gaurded, and really, not so nice. (I've been shunned by them many times!) Their children have all moved away to the suburbs and attended mega-churches, (prot) if they even attend church at all.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
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Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
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Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
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LisaR
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We made a decision before we were married to try and always live within walking distance of a parish. Now, coming up on our 15th wedding anniversary, and having lived in 7 different homes in 3 different states, I can say emphatically that it has been SO WORTH IT!!!
I love that the boys can serve daily Mass very frequently,we can attend perpetual adoration and Mass at the drop of a hat! I love that my children have (so far) grown up with a sense of community (all of our neighborhoods have been very heavily populated by parishoners- I'd say usually in the 50% range at least) and this is what I so yearned for growing up in a non church going home.
Even though we homeschool, we feel often that we live at the Church, but it is a good feeling!
I've noticed around here that the newly (or newer) built "mega churches" tend to entrench themselves firmly in the new suburbs and subdivisions. They offer activities galore 7 days a week and a "new" community is then established around this Protestant Church (usually comprising of about 50% fallen away Catholics )
Oh, that the Catholic Church was growing and bulding at such a rapid rate!
maybe in areas in the South this is happening??
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Lisa
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chicken lady
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I am sorry Elizabeth, I cannot imagine that! I live in a highly dense Catholic area, all our friends are Catholic, and we are swamped with meals and support. I wish I was closer I would defiantly bring you a meal! Great thread it gives me something to be grateful for. I like the recommendation to do something proactive, like start the Elizabeth Ministry, I will pray for you to get the support you need.
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Erin
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Elizabeth
I can so relate. It is an area that in my experience the average Catholic community is pretty poor at. I can see why people are attracted to Protestant denominations for the sense of community. But even then my many protestant friends are still out 'church shopping' because they don't feel they have found the right 'community' yet either.
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florasita
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Ladies this is such a great topic and wow what a great oppurtunity to plant some little seeds of hands on charity
our praish is finially starting up a ladies group again .Maybe this has also been a problem in your parish .Most of the women who ran our ladies group who would do the yard sales , Christmas diner for the homeless etc. are all 60 yrs or older .When I joined 4 yrs ago only a handful remained then one or two passed on and it just fizzled out .
What I saw as a real set back is the working woman .
Now where women would be in the church making quilts to send to war refugees they are off being the bread winners of the family . Here in our aboriginal community even the grandparents are the parents to grandkids and working my generation or younger are off abandoning families etc.
Anyway I and one other young lady were the only ones who showed up
Now our new co-ordinator is trying to start it up again . I think to think of helping out couples moving or expecting a baby would be a great posative for the group .
I also am finding a poor parish needs also to know they can give nut just receive .I see a big trend here anyway on the church being a victim we hardly do anything for ourselves anymore .
I'm going to actually jot these ideas down and share them with Delores today after mass 
Thanks so much ladies for starting this topic .
Elizabeth is there a mum & me group you could join like a mum's morning off group etc. through a different group or community group ?
As well we do not have to stick to everything catholic . It is ok to join a support group from another faith or secular group . We have a wonderful anglican church who offers mums morning off they often bring in speakers anyone from a chef to helping with relationships from all walks of life .They have older ladies watching the kids in a sunday schoolroom . My friend used to go every monday morning I think lunch was even offered afterwards .This was not a program offered in the inner city it was offered ina fairly well off district and they realized all mums need community .
Sorry I can't be more help I know it is hard . I've many friends who we do help each other in these ways it is a blessing .However even I wanted a catholic hs mum friend when I first started hs .I was so lonely .
we have a small catholic hs group here but they had already been hs for over 10 yrs and were really clicky like any other tight knit group . so I rayed and prayed and prayed . It took 5 yrs but when God sent me my friend Mary ! well Wow does not even discribe it .She and I have 6 kids each she the same as us 2 girls 4 boys excapet hers are turned around boys first girls last .
Then kids the same ages for my two boys Indigo 11 and Pascal 6 . Get this we have the same circle of friends ! My friend Patrice kept telling me she had a catholic friend but she was to catholic even for me and never introduced us .It was at my friend and midwifes birthday party I met Mary .We both have had homebirths , into plants , were abused , love animals etc.
We so get into the same stuff . She is a high in my day when I'm down and I in hers
However it did take 5 yrs
I have to run pick up ds17 from work . Take care hang in there and I'll be praying .
God Bless , Roxie
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Taffy
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I can so empathize with you, Elizabeth! I've had this complaint too and it's been mentioned to me by others as well. In fact, it's one of the reasons that I was very tempted to leave and join a protestant church a few years ago... Then, after giving the problem some thought and realizing that I truly believed that catholicism is closer to truth than other faiths, I decided to worry less about what I was not receiving from church and focus more on what I could contribute.
I've found a sense of community in my own parish by joining our women's group. Unfortunately, I'm the youngest member there, the next oldest is about 20 years older than me! (And I'm only 35.) Needless to say, I'm a little isolated within this group due to being at a far different stage of life than the rest of these ladies.
Nevertheless, it has been a great source of friendship and support. There are monthly meetings with a spiritual component as well as "shop talk" and planning for works of charity. Another lady and I have started a bible study group in our own area (our parish serves a large, rural area). It is very small but we have become "close knit" through our discussions of the readings.
Time is a big problem for me and being more involved in our group. Roxie, you make a great point. I'm the only "stay-at-home" mom in our parish of my generation. As well as the only homeschooler in our area, catholic or not. As well as the parent of a child with special needs. I definitely don't "fit in". But, most of the other mothers are as busy or busier than I am. It's hard to justify taking the time away from the family to get involved in church community activities. Our women's group is in danger of dissolving because of this.
I guess the answer lies in creating communities where we can. As I write, I am thinking that I should change my thoughts about the time commitments from "time away from my family" to a form of "tithing".
Any thoughts on how to create more community within our parishes?
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Susan
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Martha
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Taffy wrote:
Time is a big problem for me and being more involved in our group. Roxie, you make a great point. I'm the only "stay-at-home" mom in our parish of my generation. As well as the only homeschooler in our area, catholic or not. As well as the parent of a child with special needs. I definitely don't "fit in". But, most of the other mothers are as busy or busier than I am. It's hard to justify taking the time away from the family to get involved in church community activities. Our women's group is in danger of dissolving because of this.
Any thoughts on how to create more community within our parishes? |
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Yes, this is a huge problem. Families are so divided all the time these days. 1 or both parents workign outside the home, kids off to school or extracurricular things, divide up for CCD, divide up for different youth group, young adult group, mops, parent night, senior group, and so forth. Drives me insane and I also find it hard to justify doing yet another thing that divides up my family (such as a women's group for example). It's not that I think any of those things in and of themselves are terrible things. I don't think that at all. It's that there is almost never a single event outside of Mass that the family can do AS A FAMILY. And even that isn't always the case. They want to take little ones out for "children's church" and they want CCD kids to sit with their class sometimes. ARGH!
Why do we have to segregate everything?
There are very few events that a family can attend together and of those, there is usually a big ticket price. (Well, it's big when you multiply it times 10 anyhow.  )
So my thought? More events for the entire family. Have a Church picnic! Bingo night! (even a kid can play bingo! lol) Feast celebrations! Friday fish fry! Something like this even once a month would be awesome and could easily include entire families. Which, at least for me, would be a great encouragement.
If I have to choose between option a. that is just for me or just for the older kids, or whatever and option b. that the entire family can attend - it's a no brainer and we do the family event, even if it's slight more expensive.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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Rachel May
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Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
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| Posted: June 17 2007 at 12:40pm | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
So my thought? More events for the entire family. |
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We had "Pizza and Penance" here before Easter. You KNOW we were there.
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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4Real Forums : Tea and Conversation
Topic: community
