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Mackfam
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JennGM wrote:
I really love the idea of Song School Latin or Latin for Children, but because the audio is not ecclesiastical, I don't want to confuse the children. It also bothers me to listen to it. I really struggled with having the classical pronunciation when I was in high school, and I don't want to repeat that for the younger years for my boys. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise... |
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I'm of the same opinion as you on this, Jenn. I'm a fan of Ecclesiastical Pronunciation, and over the years, I've really come to appreciate a steady, consistent effort in a single program, and the fruits of that. We tried once to switch to/introduce Classical pronunciation mid-stream and it was very confusing and disruptive. Going back to shorter lessons and ecclesiastical pronunciation was a relief, both to student and mom!
We start early (3rd grade), slow (taking two years to finish a program) and gentle (breaking lessons into a short lesson format, doing many translating exercises orally) with Latin using Memoria Press programs, culminating with Henle in high school. I have appreciated so much of our Latin experience, though it wasn't always without some bumps because I didn't know Latin and had to learn it right alongside my kids. By about 7th grade (after 4 years of Latin), my children can read and speak/translate basic Latin.
Good luck to all of you deciding which program to use! I really liked that comparison chart you linked, Jenn!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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ShannonJ
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CrunchyMom wrote:
JennGM wrote:
| Since Latin isn't usually "immersion" it can be overwhelming if it's the first time to look at declensions and conjugations and gender and plurals and reverse order of words in sentences, etc. |
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I think this is why the philosophy of Visual Latin appeals to me to start with. It is sort of like immersion for Latin. |
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I am such a fan of immersion language learning. Visual Latin does seem to be about as close as you could get. They recommend using readers as well, which I am drawn to.
JennGM wrote:
I really love the idea of Song School Latin or Latin for Children, but because the audio is not ecclesiastical, I don't want to confuse the children. It also bothers me to listen to it. I really struggled with having the classical pronunciation when I was in high school, and I don't want to repeat that for the younger years for my boys. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise... |
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I've heard from some folks that switching between the two pronunciations didn't prove to be a huge deal for the kids, but I know I would probably want it to work for me too. Since I have NO background in Latin at all I'm not convinced my adult mind would be able to flex enough to keep up.
I really want something SIMPLE. Just to dip our toes in the water. If it clicks we can move on from there.
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Mom of dd 12, ds 9, & dd 5
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tm2boys
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We are using Song School Latin as a two year program since my youngest was five when we started it last year. We love it! The CD that goes with it has both classical and ecclesiastical pronunciation of all the songs. I just loaded the ecclesiastical versions to my phone and we have easy access to them as we work. We have all been caught singing the catchy tunes during the day  .
I personally needed a gentle start to Latin. Through this workbook/Cd set I now have the courage to move on to a more challenging program. My children have even told others Latin is their favorite subject.
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JennGM
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tm2boys wrote:
We are using Song School Latin as a two year program since my youngest was five when we started it last year. We love it! The CD that goes with it has both classical and ecclesiastical pronunciation of all the songs. I just loaded the ecclesiastical versions to my phone and we have easy access to them as we work. We have all been caught singing the catchy tunes during the day .
I personally needed a gentle start to Latin. Through this workbook/Cd set I now have the courage to move on to a more challenging program. My children have even told others Latin is their favorite subject. |
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Hmmm...that chart needs to be updated, I guess. Both Song School and Latin for Children have both classical and Ecclesiastical pronunciations. That makes my choice harder, I must say!
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Jennifer G. Miller
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LLMom
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I have used Latina Christiana I and II. It was hard at first, but I am finally getting the hang of it with the help of the DVD's. I appreciate the reason for studying Latin so much now. Here are a few things I have written about Latin, including some games I have found or made up.
Why Study Latin?
Games for learning Latin
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Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
homeschooling ideas
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AmandaV
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I was thinking about Song school Latin last summer and never bit. Now, after reading more and seeing that the TM isn't really necessary, and seeing it on Amazon for about 60% of full price: Song School Latin on Amazonl , and that there are both pronunciations on the cd, I think I'm going to try it out starting this summer. My oldest is going into 3rd, a little old for it, but I'm sure he'll enjoy it as well and then I can move with him into LFC or Getting started with Latin in the Spring.
Thanks, tm2boys, for your review.
I also saw this article from the Classical Conversations blog ( I don't do CC, just saw the link on CAP's Facebook page) and it really makes the case for SSL.
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Amanda
wife since 6/03, Mom to son 7/04, daughter 2/06, twin sons 6/08 and son 7/11, son 1/2014
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JennGM
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AmandaV wrote:
I was thinking about Song school Latin last summer and never bit. Now, after reading more and seeing that the TM isn't really necessary, and seeing it on Amazon for about 60% of full price: Song School Latin on Amazonl , and that there are both pronunciations on the cd, I think I'm going to try it out starting this summer. My oldest is going into 3rd, a little old for it, but I'm sure he'll enjoy it as well and then I can move with him into LFC or Getting started with Latin in the Spring.
Thanks, tm2boys, for your review.
I also saw this article from the Classical Conversations blog ( I don't do CC, just saw the link on CAP's Facebook page) and it really makes the case for SSL. |
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Yes, thank you, tm2boys!
And Amanda!
What about the DVD? Do you think that's necessary or helpful?
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to & ds1 '03 & ds2 '07
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SallyT
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This is all very interesting and helpful. I'd still like to know if anyone has used Our Roman Roots, which is what I've seriously been considering as a very slow (I think there are 15 units, and I'd spread it out over at least a year, if not two) course for my rising 3rd and 4th graders.
What actually attracted me to it initially *was* the whole-humanities-course aspect of it, with character lessons and so on, and how it could be a spine for integrated humanities learning, with a lot of literature to cover things like history, geography, etc, in greater depth. (I hope this makes sense!).
I'm liking the sound of some of these other programs, particularly Visual Latin; still, ORR seems really unique and also cost-effective by comparison. Anyway, I'd love to know if anyone here has actually used it and if so, what your experience was like.
Anyone? Anyone?
Sally
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tm2boys
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Thanks, we have been happy with the program.
Enjoyed reading the article you found Amanda.
We did not purchase the teacher's manual either. The books came with the CD in a pocket at the back. So when I purchased two books I automatically received a CD with each book. The DVD goes with the Latin for Children and is purchased separately; but we are not there yet.
There are some cute little videos (and coloring pages) on line that go with the chapters called "Little Moments". They are only one or two minutes long. We rarely remember to use them but they are free for the public.
http://headventureland.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item &id=71:little-moments&Itemid=112
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ShannonJ
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I was sitting down with dd9 this morning reviewing several of these programs. She ultimately liked the simplicity of Prima Latina so we chose that for next year.
She wasn't really drawn to Song School Latin. I think it seemed too kid like, which she typically likes, but I thought it may be a good early intro for the younger set. Thanks for the link Amanda! That is a great price! I am going to pick that up mostly for the fun of it and to change things up a bit if we get bored.
We did decide against the DVD because although they do have both pronunciations, it seemed that classical was predominately used with ecclesiastical thrown in sporadically as an afterthought.
LFC seemed like a lot of vocab if we are going to be working on Spanish at the same time, and while I liked the idea of Visual Latin, after we watched the sample videos together we felt it may move just a *bit* too fast for us right now.
Thank you all for your input and discussion!
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CrunchyMom
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JennGM wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
I was thinking about Song school Latin last summer and never bit. Now, after reading more and seeing that the TM isn't really necessary, and seeing it on Amazon for about 60% of full price: Song School Latin on Amazonl , and that there are both pronunciations on the cd, I think I'm going to try it out starting this summer. My oldest is going into 3rd, a little old for it, but I'm sure he'll enjoy it as well and then I can move with him into LFC or Getting started with Latin in the Spring.
Thanks, tm2boys, for your review.
I also saw this article from the Classical Conversations blog ( I don't do CC, just saw the link on CAP's Facebook page) and it really makes the case for SSL. |
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Yes, thank you, tm2boys!
And Amanda!
What about the DVD? Do you think that's necessary or helpful? |
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I just watched the sample of the DVD, and it has the classical pronunciations NOT ecclesiastical. There is some lip service done to adding in the ecclesiastical in the instructive sections, but in all the natural dialog exchanges, the classical pronunciations are used.
This makes me think that the song cds would be the same???
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 18 2012 at 10:54am | IP Logged
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CrunchyMom wrote:
JennGM wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
I was thinking about Song school Latin last summer and never bit. Now, after reading more and seeing that the TM isn't really necessary, and seeing it on Amazon for about 60% of full price: Song School Latin on Amazonl , and that there are both pronunciations on the cd, I think I'm going to try it out starting this summer. My oldest is going into 3rd, a little old for it, but I'm sure he'll enjoy it as well and then I can move with him into LFC or Getting started with Latin in the Spring.
Thanks, tm2boys, for your review.
I also saw this article from the Classical Conversations blog ( I don't do CC, just saw the link on CAP's Facebook page) and it really makes the case for SSL. |
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Yes, thank you, tm2boys!
And Amanda!
What about the DVD? Do you think that's necessary or helpful? |
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I just watched the sample of the DVD, and it has the classical pronunciations NOT ecclesiastical. There is some lip service done to adding in the ecclesiastical in the instructive sections, but in all the natural dialog exchanges, the classical pronunciations are used.
This makes me think that the song cds would be the same???
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This was our experience with another program within the Classical Academic Press family. The program is excellent, as is the instruction and the DVD...but do be aware before purchasing that classical pronunciation is emphasized and taught in all the lessons. Ecclesiastical pronunciation is not included in any lessons; it is a side note on an audio cd which I didn't find helpful or a substitute for the classical pronunciation instruction. I would emphasize again that the programs themselves are quite excellent, but if ecclesiastical pronunciation is a priority for you, consider this program very carefully! Especially if you do not have experience in Latin and cannot offer that ecclesiastical pronunciation yourself. At the point we used this program (very briefly in 8th grade we used Latin Alive!), I had learned enough Latin that I (and my student) certainly could substitute the ecclesiastical pronunciation for the classical on our own, but it was a huge distraction from the lesson and because it wasn't taught or emphasized in any way, it was also time consuming. This did show us how important we felt the ecclesiastical pronunciation emphasis was in our home, and helped us focus on that as a priority in our Latin lessons, so I was grateful for the lesson, but since Lindsay mentioned it I did want to add our experience for consideration. 
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Jen Mackintosh
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AmandaV
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Well, I ordered so I guess I'll just preview to find out. I did NOT get the DVDs, just the cd and book and the cd does have two completely separate tracks, I think, but if it is not what we want I can probably sell it. We do not currently attend a mass in Latin though our choir sings a lot of Latin, so I'm not sure how I want Latin to sound in our home yet. I'll have think about it more. I'll let you all know what I think.
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Amanda
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CrunchyMom
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AmandaV wrote:
| and the cd does have two completely separate tracks, I think |
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Definitely let us know if this is the case! I know they have two separate tracks for the general vocabulary pronunciations, but it is the songs I was assuming would only be produced in the classical.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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AmandaV
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CrunchyMom wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| and the cd does have two completely separate tracks, I think |
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Definitely let us know if this is the case! I know they have two separate tracks for the general vocabulary pronunciations, but it is the songs I was assuming would only be produced in the classical. |
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Gosh, it sure looks like it.. if I am reading correctly:
Quote:
"A lively musical CD is a delightful piece of the program and comes in the back in each student text. As an ideal introduction to the language, Song School Latin will more than prepare a student to begin a grammar school program such as Latin for Children.
Grade level: Kindergarten through 3rd Grade
Accompanying children’s music CD (30 songs) comes in the back of each student text!
Classical and Ecclesiastical pronunciations in both text and CD "
...
Free Resources:
What is this?
Song School Latin, Classical Pronunciation Audio:
chapter by chapter (zipped MP3s), one file (MP3)
Song School Latin, Ecclesiastical Pronunciation Audio:
chapter by chapter (zipped MP3s), one file (MP3)
Free Song School Latin Coloring Pages! Color a picture for each Latin word in Song School Latin. Also a great activity for younger siblings!
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It looks like the cd is just songs, with both pronunciations, and then there are separate audio files free from the web site for chapter by chapter audio. But again, I'll let you know when I get it. :)
I was interested in the children learning classical as well, I think, because, I had read that the great writers who wrote in Latin would have spoken that way, so it should be read that way. Is there some debate about that? But I do want them to learn ecclesiastical for church use, too.
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Amanda
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Mackfam
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AmandaV wrote:
| I was interested in the children learning classical as well, I think, because, I had read that the great writers who wrote in Latin would have spoken that way, so it should be read that way. Is there some debate about that? But I do want them to learn ecclesiastical for church use, too. |
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I don't think it's really debated...more of a preference. What you've heard is correct. Classical educators would promote classical pronunciation for the reasons you've cited. We lean toward ecclesiastical because of the Church, and because it's a more melodious way to enunciate the Latin. The ecclesiastical pronunciation has been used since the 3rd/4th century and is closer to other romance languages (as a jumping off point for languages) I think Lindsay may have mentioned it somewhere on the thread already, but we just find the classical pronunciations hard to say. They don't roll....and frankly, the classical pronunciation sounds goofy and a little like a someone is doing a spoof of a strong leader. Think of Caesar standing prominently on a bluff overlooking a city, arm raised in the air, saying:
(phonetically) Wani - Weedi - Weeci
(translated) I came - I saw - I conquered
It just sounds *better* as Veni - Vidi - Vici
V is pronounced with the W sound in classical pronunciation so everything with a v gets the "w" sound - words like vita (life)....Wita, veritas (truth)....Weritas, via (way)....Wia.
This is an excellent article illustrating basic and simple differences between the two pronunciations.
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Jen Mackintosh
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ShannonJ
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CrunchyMom wrote:
AmandaV wrote:
| and the cd does have two completely separate tracks, I think |
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Definitely let us know if this is the case! I know they have two separate tracks for the general vocabulary pronunciations, but it is the songs I was assuming would only be produced in the classical. |
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I disliked the way the DVD sample appeared as well.
We got our copy in a couple of days ago. The CD is divided tracks 1-30 Classical and 31-60 Ecclesiastical. I haven't listened to all of the tracks, but from the few I compared it seems that the same songs are recorded separately with the appropriate pronunciations.
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~Shannon
Mom of dd 12, ds 9, & dd 5
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MarilynW
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I have really enjoyed this thread as I have been weighing all the Latin options for my 8 year old. I would love to know if anyone has made any decisions yet...and is happy....
My older children have all done the Prima Latina, Latina Christiana 1, First Form and Henle (with Lingua Angelica and Famous Men of Rome at various levels)track.
I have always looked at Latin for Children and Latin Alive and wished they had the ecclesiastical pronunication (in teaching) as I love their format. But we find the classical pronunciation distracting.
My 8 year old loved Prima Latina last year - and I was wanting to find something else rather than going straight into LC.
I love the look of Lively Latin as it combines history, vocab and grammar - in a fun way. But it is expensive. Visual Latin looks good - but when I checked out the free lessons - there is the same problem as LFC - he uses classical pronunication in teaching a lot. I did like the idea of Visual Latin because I would be able to use it for my 8 year old and also with my 13 year olds as review as they are doing Henle I. But I am holding back because of the pronuciation...
So...I am back to the beginning and thinking that I will just use what I have - LC1 with DVDs and CD, Lingua Angelica, some gregorian chant cds from CHC and do my own schedule tying this in with some history using Famous Men of Rome, The Children's Plutarch: Lives of the Romans, Stories from the History of Rome and The Aeneid for Boys and Girls.
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Just wondering too...has anyone used or considered the Little Latin Readers from CHC?
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 23 2012 at 7:58am | IP Logged
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MarilynW wrote:
| Just wondering too...has anyone used or considered the Little Latin Readers from CHC? |
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I was going to ask the same thing about their Latin
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Jennifer G. Miller
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: Lively Latin and other programs
