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ALmom
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We sign up for Kolbe with our high schooler, mostly because I panic without a plan and so does she and Kolbe allows us to substitute what we want.
Our daughter will be 12th grade and their literature plans for that year look pretty depressing to me. It's all good literature, I just am not sure we want to do a whole year of the same stuff. I am trying to formulate a list of substitute books and let my daughter choose from them - but I need at least one each quarter with some sort of discussion guide or paper topic ideas for us to use if we don't use Kolbe's. (Not a Kolbe requirement - just something I know we need to keep us from stressing)
So far I've thought about substituting some of the stuff from earlier grades since we have not always been with them. The only problem with that is that I don't think dd would be terribly thrilled with doing a lot of ancient authors. We did make her do the Iliad and she hated it. She likes Shakespeare, but I cannot help her with that at all. I've got a running list of ideas - stuff by Jane Austen, G.K Chesterton, and so on.
I guess one thing I am looking at is how neat it is how the literature is normally integrated with the history. She will be doing Modern History and I'd like to have the literature fit, but I also want something that isn't so coarse - not just Russian authors. I'd like to read some of what is on the list but balance it with something from a Catholic perspective. I think Kolbe does that with their theology for 12th but we will be doing a different theology since she has already done that.
I really have considered having her do Plato or Augustine or Aenied which is in earlier plans so I'd have their plans and paper topics - but I'm just not sure. I want several workable options to mull over with her before we decide.
Does anyone have any recommendations for literature lists for high schoolers?
Anyone familiar with Kolbe? Perhaps you could give me some pointers on what to try to do.
I am really open to any suggestions - or if someone has a better literature plan. I'm in a land of indecision because nothing has struck us yet, I'm tired and very unsure of how to destress and inspire this child.
Janet
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materdei7
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Janet,
My oldest is going into grade 11. I'm not sure if this will help,but, I cruise the book lists given by most
of the homeschools, and pick the ones that I think most
appeal to my dd. The love2learn website you referred to
in another post does have a book review section, and a good history section too. I hope you find a selection
of books that engage your dd for her final year in high
school. May God reward you for your efforts!
Blessings,
__________________
Kathleen, mother of five on earth, three in heaven.
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Willa
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Janet, we used Kolbe's 12th grade literature last year. WE made some changes. Let me see if I can remember some of them before my first cup of coffee.
Tolstoy was great... the short story choices. I was thrilled myself to find this wonderful Christian author. I will read more of them myself in future. We particularly liked "Master and Man".
A Day in the Life of Ivan Denosovich was also a treasure. The language was a bit coarse in parts, at least in our edition. Of course, the situation is very bleak -- a prisoner in a gulag. But the story itself is surprisingly uplifting, showing the power of the human spirit. It was a witness to me.
WE didn't read Crime and Punishment. I started reading it -- it was just too grim for my son who is a bit scrupulous. He can wait till he's older to get through that one.
He read Huckleberry Finn and House of Seven Gables. Both very good. Also TS Eliot. I'm not sure what he thought of him.
We took a side tack and read some British Literature -- PRide and Prejudice (he's only read one Jane Austen book, I know, I know!) and some Chesterton and Lewis. He has read a couple of their books every year during high school. They are almost all worth reading.
WE had the MODG British Lit syllabus but he had already read most of the books in there, so I used it for my daughter instead. But if you want to glance at their booklist and see if it helps you, go to the Mother of Divine Grace website and scroll down to 12th grade booklist (or just use the direct link).
Oh, and I carefully chose a couple of Flannery O'Connor stories for him to read. She is such a good writer, one of my favorites -- but most of her stories are pretty shocking. I think I had him read "The River" and "Temple of the Holy Ghost" and "The Enduring Chill".
Oh, and I also had him read Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants" so we could discuss the secular short story writer.
Finally, he read "Shadow of His Wings" about a Catholic priest in the German army. The timing was neat because he read it just after Benedict XVI was elected.
Oh, and he read Orwell's Animal Farm rather than 1984. We have an essay by CS Lewis which explains why he thinks ANimal Farm to be a better book than 1984, even though it's a "fable" and usually read by junior highers. Anyway, I remember 1984 being very shocking and depressing to me as a college student with its nihilist ending and so I just avoided that for my senior. I wanted this year to be a sort of wrap up year for him where he was dealing with putting all the pieces together, but I thought all the ugliness of modern lit could wait until college.
Along with these literature choices I had him read a bunch of books on literary analysis. We hadn't done a lit ana class during high school. So he read CS LEwis "On Stories" JRR TOlkien "On Fairy Stories" Flannery O'Connor "Mystery and Manners" A book by a Jesuit priest called "Norms for the Novel" (there's a shorter book on the same theme by the same priest published by Kolbe called "Tenets for Readers and REviewers" that Liam read a couple of years ago). Finally, he read "Poetic Knowledge" by James Taylor and "Escape from Scepticism" by Christopher Derrick.
I think there is more but my mind has gone blank. WE didn't do the history component of Kolbe. I had him do MODG's American Government and Economics. Appropriate for him, but very dry and I don't think I'd recommend it to a burned out student like your daughter. I want to tweak it before I use it for my second son.
For religion, he read "Story of a Soul" Augustine's "Confessions" Adrienne von Speyr's "Confession" -- we skipped the Cure d'Ars Little Catechisms because I thought it would feed his scrupulous tendencies, and he'd already read the GKC selection on the Kolbe lineup. He also spent the year reading and outlining Msr Glenn's "Tour of the Summa".
Hope this helps a bit, and you are welcome to bounce questions or brainstorms or whatever back at me -- I love to talk about this kind of thing when I'm trying to put together plans for next year.
Oh, and one more thing -- I had planned for him to read "Witness to Hope" the bio of JPII as a sort of spine history of the 20th century but we ran out of time.
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Willa
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Willa
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Also, Janet, your daughter sounds a bit like mine -- mine is going into her sophomore year. SHe likes Shakespeare too. One thing you can do is look for study guides online if you want to be able to discuss with her without reading the whole thing yourself. That's what I have done. Also, there are audio tapes of the plays in the library, no doubt. There are some old threads on Shakespeare somewhere on this board that discuss "friendly" ways into Shakespeare. Personally, I don't think it would hurt a senior to devote the year just to drama... oldest DS and I focused mostly on drama in his freshman year when he was doing the ancients -- he read Sophocles trilogy, read GB Shaw's Pygmalion, and watched Man for all Seasons about St Thomas More. WE could have gone on and on but had to stop because of time limitations.
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Willa
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ALmom
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Willa,
Thanks - we are going to try and print your comments. I like a lot of your ideas. I loved Solszhenitsyn and am glad to hear about Leo Tolstoy.
I know we will do one quarter on Shakespeare plays. Our daughter seems pretty confident with these. We had already decided to leave out 1984 and Crime and Punishment. Its funny how my husband and I remembered different parts of it. He remembered the gore, I remembered the analysis of guilt and repentence. I think my daughter would end up like my husband.
I really like your idea of Flannery O'Conner and some GKC and analysis. He wrote an analysis of Tolstoy so that might be fun.
I really like the WWII biographies.
Thanks!
Janet
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Chari
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WJFR wrote:
Hope this helps a bit, and you are welcome to bounce questions or brainstorms or whatever back at me -- I love to talk about this kind of thing when I'm trying to put together plans for next year.
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Gosh, I crack myself up! 
Here I am reading through this post.........I guess totally unaware of the author.......and I keep thinking.......wow, this boy sounds so much like Liam.....How interesting another hs mom, besides Willa has a boy so similar.
I guess I was very absorbed in the topic.........
I seem to do this frequently, eh? 
That being said, I think you did a wonderful job, Willa!
And, I think it was very generous of you to share all of it with us.
Thank you,
And God bless the new TAC student!! 
__________________
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Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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Anne Marie M
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Willa,
I loved your post! You mentioned not having time for Witness to Hope. Did you read anything that was more of an historical text? I'm considering focusing on 20th cent. history/lit for my 12th grader and would like a good "history book" to tie things together. Any suggestions?
Anne Marie
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Willa
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Janet, I like your idea of making book lists and having kids decide from that -- I'll remember that next year!
Chari--
You crack me up, too..
BTW the MODG 8th grade syllabus went all the way to SF with us, and then travelled ALL the way back -- I didn't remember it at all until I was unpacking the diaper bag the next day. So maybe it would like to visit SF again in a couple of weeks when we meet again?
I probably crack you up too, huh?
__________________
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Willa
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Willa
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Anne Marie,
The book Kolbe recommended as a spine was Modern Times by Paul Johnson. I think it's a good, readable book though I've only read part of it personally, but Liam already had the Gov't/Ec course going and I didn't want to bog him down.
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Willa
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Elizabeth
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When I read Willa's wonderful post I felt so inferior. We've read so much--or HE'S read so much--but I don't feel like it's all tied together. We love booklists and catalogs like Sonlight and almost all the books are available here at home, but Michael tends to just read them before I can do much organized with them. We did some formal discussion with another student last year and the year before, limping along with Progeny Press guides and the Sonlight manuals, both of which I found lacking. So...after reading Willa's post and talking recently to a friend who's a TAC grad and reading two books written by TAC grads (both of which impressed me),I'm feeling like we haven't been methodical or classical enough...
Then, today, before he left for a soccer trip which will involve two very long bus rides, Michael called from the library. He wanted to get some books on CD for the bus trip. But the library was closed because the air conditioning was broken. So, he asked if he could go to the bookstore. I told him to go ahead but to call before he spent a whole lot of money on an audio book. I also urged him to look for something compelling-- a page turner. A short while later, he called and said he was on his way home. He related that the audio books were too expensive so he bought a print book instead. What book? The Federalist Papers . I tried not to laugh at his earnestness when he said that he just felt like it was important to read it. And I tried not to imagine what the boys on the bus will say about the first book of summer vacation. When he got home, I told him to poke through the bookshelves to see if there was something a little lighter, just in case his choice was wearying. He emerged from our home library with All Quiet on the Western Front.Not what I would pick for a light read  .
It's not at all organized but the boy does have a literary sense about him!
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Anne Marie M
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Elizabeth,
Our reading has not always been organized, either. . . but I'm encouraged when I see the kids making connections on their own. Not always, but often enough to keep me from despair!
Anne Marie
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Louise
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WE had the MODG British Lit syllabus but he had already read most of the books in there, so I used it for my daughter instead.
Willa,
May I ask what you will you will be using for your dd this coming year? She is close in age to Lydia (who turned 15 in March and is a rising tenth grader). We have been searching the internet downloading samples of lesson plans but are still quite undecided. I really like the idea of having her read books on literary analysis. I will look up the ones you suggested on amazon. If you have more suggestions please let me know.
Lydia would really like to have plans that gives her plenty of topics for papers. From the few samples we looked up on the MODG website it didn't seem to be the case. What do you think? How about Kolbe? Price is also a factor. Enrolling with Kolbe might not be possible.
I am also trying to figure out what we will be doing for Sebastien (12th). He took some classes at the local tech last year and did very well but the driving (we live way out in the country) and crazy hours (from morning classes to evening classes) were a big bother. I'd rather have him home this year.
Your insights would be most apreciated.
Blessings,
Louise, mom of 11
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Willa
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Elizabeth, so often I have the same feeling of inferiority when I read YOUR posts.... just imagine if Liam had to take on Michael's life for a week, while Michael took on Liam's -- -- so I think it might be a case of us both unconsciously tailoring the program to suit the child and his individual circumstances.
The fact is that Liam really appreciates order and sequence and since it's not my natural tendency, we've made use of outside syllabi to give him that --- but since I don't really like EVERYTHING in any one syllabi, we revise and shuffle and personalize. He has always been able to give me very constructive feedback in what is working for him and what's not, so if something falls flat, I drop it quickly.
He would not read Dante or the Federalists on his own, to take some examples from Michael's life, but when they are assigned to him, he relishes them and does well.
I read EVERYTHING as a child and young person and much of it would have appeared unconnected to an outsider, but it connected in my mind. So I don't think it's necessarily a concern that Michael's reading is so very eclectic.
Brendan and Clare are very different pictures than Liam, and so I approach them differently. Clare is more of an unschooler at heart, I believe, maybe a bit more like Michael -- she reads everything but in her own time, and I pull together after-the-fact notes to put in her portfolio -- -- plus she is keeping a list of what she considers high school level reading. She blasted through about five years of back issues of Envoy and This Rock and in the process practically gave herself a full Catholic highschool-level formation -- and she narrates all the time about what she learned -- but if I had *assigned* those -- no, I don't think so!
Louise, I haven't really thought about where to go with Clare next year. Last year she did mostly British Literature. My tentative plan was to cover the ancient world, as the boys did at her age, but I haven't pulled together any lists or anything. Liam mostly used the MODG syllabi, Brendan has stuck closer to Kolbe, but both with variations, some unpredicted at the start of the year. I can open a thread when I have more ideas on what to do with them, and I would love to hear your ideas.
Kolbe has 2 paper topics a week, one for literature and one for history, plus miscellaneous papers for religion and for English. I usually like their paper topics and use some of them as discussion starters, but I have never assigned anything near all of them.
I would like to have just one child who asked for more paper topics!! 
This is my site on the classical co-op
Ryan Family -- it is quite a bit outdated because I haven't worked on it since last summer but it tells a bit about my over-view of highschool, and there are some other families on there that share book recommendations etc that might be of interest to you all, even if you don't actually do classical homeschooling per se.
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Willa
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Leonie
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Elizabeth,
Our literary reading has been a lot like the one you described - and it *has been good to see the older dc making their own connections.
Jonathon (16) and I really like a number of the reading selections on the Sonlight British Literature booklist. He and Alexander ( 13, nearly 14) are also choosing books they like from the Ambleside House of Education lists.
One year, when Gregory and Nicholas ( sons 2 and 3) were 15 and 16, we read through most of the selections on the Sonlight Year 8 booklist. A large number of these were read aloud, as I really wanted to spend some time with those boys in being together and in discussion , each week.
Usually, the younger ones watched some Children's TV while we read and discussed ( typically Playschool at 9.30 a.m. each morniing! lol!)
Just some extra ideas for booklists for high school.
Leonie in Sydney
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ALmom
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Louise,
I find Kolbe's suggested paper topics very helpful. They generally involve deep thinking - comparing world views, relating something to something else sometimes something in other subject areas or other years.
Full time enrollment is somewhat pricey, but I think you are able to order their lesson plans without enrolling.
I enroll because my daughter is more confident if I have someone else go over her papers and give feedback. Also, the proctors have been very good at helping me tailor things - ie it was their idea to let dd choose her books. I am embarrassed to say that one didn't come from me. Basically Kolbe is a lot less expensive than hiring an English tutor for that and I retain much more flexibility.
I'm getting tons of ideas from all of you and lots of places to look. Now the only danger is getting excited about all these books and being tempted to try and do it all again.
Janet
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ALmom
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Also, I found some CHC plans for GK Chesterton works and Murder in the Cathedral by TS Eliot. I've been impressed by a lot of their stuff so we're ordering those. More of it covers the Middle Ages time period, but Ballad of the White Horse is about the ongoing conflict between paganism and Christianity. I really think we'd like to do that one.
Kolbe does have a lot of plans/ suggestions on ancient literature. You can look at their recommendations for 9th and 10th which are ancient Greece and ancient Rome. They do Augustine as well as the standard pagan authors. We have mixed up a bunch of different quarters - picking a quarter or two from each year. They also sell a great study guide book on the authors and new for this year - I think they will have study guides for all their recommended reading. My dd found these helpful and it did help me discuss a little with her as I could tell if there were connections she wasn't quite getting and then when we had a short moment that could be the discussion starter. It saved me from having to read the whole book as I had a teacher's key and while I really would have liked to keep up with her, I just couldn't keep up with her pace and read everything. I could at least ask questions of her.
Janet
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Kelly
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Willa,
I noticed on your "Ryan Family" site some mention of the Progymnasmata. Without wanting to reinvent the wheel (as I know this was discussed before-somewhere- but I missed it-- somehow), are you following this program? Have you been using the islas program for that? I've talked about this with Anne Marie (hi, Anne Marie!) who suggested that others might have used it and appreciated it more. Any experience there that you can share?
Thanks, Kelly in FL
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Willa
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Kelly, I don't use the ISLAS course though Anne Marie's description sounded good! We have a book called Composition in the Classical Tradition which I can't unequivocally recommend, but which provides a pretty useful outline of the stages of the progym for college-level students. The reason that I can't recommend it is because along with the legends and myths (which are fine) it includes revolting newspaper articles about child abuse, spousal fights, the most sordid things you can imagine. I think the book is used for law school! I covered them all with computer label stickers -- I'm sure there's a law against that and I could go to jail  and the book became a useful resource. I also have Classical Writing which covers the first stages of the progym. AND I've read a lot on the web about it.
I have posted before about my discomfort about teaching writing and this approach suits me best for my uneasy ventures into "structured" composition. I find it a useful way to teach high school level writing (and help transition into written narration in the earlier grades) because it is part of the traditional approach that has since devolved into the standard EDNA --Expository Descriptive Narrative Argumentative formula of composition nowadays. The progym is a more complete and thoughtful and "living" presentation of those strands, to me.
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Willa
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Willa
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ALmom wrote:
I'm getting tons of ideas from all of you and lots of places to look. Now the only danger is getting excited about all these books and being tempted to try and do it all again.
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Janet, you gave me the idea of making book lists and letting the student choose. That's how I think I will handle MY tendency to try to do it all, this year. Maybe it would work for you In my mind it combined with Cindy's post about her "idea notebook" where she puts all the neat ideas and resources that excite her and then presents them to her boys to see which ones will "fly".
Honestly, I'm always glad when I cover 75% of what I had actually planned -- I feel like a success. And I do count rabbit trails as fair substitutes for original plans. At least, I try to.
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Willa
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Willa
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Louise wrote:
I am also trying to figure out what we will be doing for Sebastien (12th). He took some classes at the local tech last year and did very well but the driving (we live way out in the country) and crazy hours (from morning classes to evening classes) were a big bother. I'd rather have him home this year.
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For Liam's senior year, what let me focus was thinking "This is my last year with him in my homeschool." I thought about all the things that I had wanted to get to during our years, and thought about which of those things was the most important to me and to him -- not what I thought he SHOULD do, in a college-prep sense, so much as what I thought we SHOULD do, in the sense of what I still wanted to share with him. Yes, I used the Kolbe lineup as the foundation, but I focused it to my "specialty" area as an English Lit BA and tried to think in terms of a sort of Catholic philosophy, an overview, to wrap up his years at home.
WE kept a sort of running "theme" which we discussed in light of the different books. It was about the power of imaginative literature in portraying truth, and how fiction can reflect a deeper truth of the spirit even sometimes when the author isn't religious (as long as he is faithful to observed reality). That's how we approached the literary analysis selections I mentioned. It's hard to describe, but I realize that my other most successful year, with my second son in 6th grade, I did a similar thing -- used a literature curriculum (the 4reallearning booklist) to focus on a "theme" of the difference that an individual's life can make in the course of history.
The things he worked on were things that interested ME and him in common and that I loved talking about with him. This was especially true in the humanities, since in science and math and Latin/Greek he is past me now. He made some wonderful across-the-curriculum connections. I sure will miss him next year ....  I worry about areas I "missed", not so much academic as developmental, but I am glad we had this last relatively smooth and uninterrupted year. And I know God's providence for him doesn't just stop when he leaves our home.
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Willa
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4Real Forums : Living Literature
Topic: Literature for high school ?
