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rm4mrfrus
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| Posted: Oct 16 2006 at 4:07pm | IP Logged
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First let me say that I'm not even sure if that is what it should be called, but it is what our DRE calls it...at the Sunday Mass, the preschool and kindergarten crowd leave Mass right at the beginning and go downstairs to do CCD or Children's Church or whatever. We also have a nursery during that Mass so it seems that all the kids under elem. age are not in Mass. I had not noticed this before as we go to Mass on Sat. night because our kids serve. (That is another post altogether- no kids except ours will serve on Sat. nights.) 3 weeks ago our new Sanctity of Life committee started sponsoring a coffee and donut social after Mass and our family has been working it. So we get there in the middle of Mass to set up and that is how I realized that all these younguns are not in Mass. The preschool group sits right next to where we set up and they do a little "weekly reader" magazine type thing and color and have a snack.
Do other churches do this and how do you feel about it? It really bothers me that all these kids miss Mass each week. I know that they probably don't pay any attention to Mass but still. If we were going on Sundays, I would not have my kids leave to go do this. Am I overreacting to a little thing? I have never been in a parish where they do this.
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doris
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We've just moved, but in our old church there was 'children's liturgy' which started after the Gloria and ended during the Offertory. Children before 1st communion age were invited to go out and were split into 2 groups, preschoolers and school age children, the former with their parents, the latter without. There was a song, a prayer, the Gospel reading with/without visual aids, then a simple craft (often a rather boring colouring sheet, but not always).
In our new local churches, it's similar except that all children are expected to go without their parents (I go along anyway), and the session is much longer -- basically the whole of Mass until Communion. So if you're an accompanying parent, you really do miss the lot. And so do the children. On top of that, the quality of the teaching is *very* poor, the materials are inadequate (a few crummy pencils between a large group), the setting is inadequate (eg the church hall *while* a bring and buy sale is going on, noisily!) and there are the usual 'schooly' problems of the most disruptive children dominating/spoiling the session.
So I'm very very unhappy about this. I would love the children to get to know other Catholic youngsters, but not at the price of missing Mass every week and getting taught things which are frankly untrue -- not to mention the subliminal message that we just want to get rid of children and what they are taught while they are elsewhere out of the adults' hair is unimportant. So we won't be bothering any more.
Right, I'll get off my high horse now 
Elizabeth
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folklaur
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See, every time I am thinking that our parish is so liberal, or has abuses, or whatever, I hear things like this and I realize how lucky we are. I think we just must be one of the most liberal "around here".
We have what is also called "Children's Liturgy" -- but it is only once a month, and all it means is that the Children's Choir will be singing, and the homily "might" be geared towards kids. ( I say "might" becasue we have gotten one retired priest who my famiy just adores, but he loves to talk about Satan and Hell. A lot.  ).
It is nothing like what you are describing. We do have a Child Care Center, or you can have your little ones do like Preschool RE, but it is really just child care for those who want it. (I personally wish that wasn't offered becasue I feel kids learn how to behave at Mass by going to Mass, not suddenly knowing when they turn 6 or 7 and are "too old" for the Child Care Center. But that is just my opinion )
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Martha
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ARGH!
What it is is something to be avoided imnsho. 
We don't do children's liturgy either.
What a mess.
I'll stop there for the sake of.. well I'll just stop. 
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Mary G
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I'm with y'all -- why do the kids (and I've been in parishes where all under 10 or something are allowed to go out) need a "watered down" kids' version?
It's disruptive when they go and disruptive when they come back. Granted, sometimes a priest's sermon might be over the child's head, but aren't we there to try and explain it? I'm just beginning to understand the readings and gospels  and I'm 45! What if we had watered down the readings and gospels back then -- I'd be in even worse shape now!
I've known folks who rave about this for their children -- both think it's wonderful and the leader (usually a woman in the parish) is usually "very good" -- but isn't the Word supposed to be explained by priest or deacon?
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Yup, total agreement with everyone from this mom.
We used to send our kids until we realized what a waste of time it was. If they were actually learning something, then I might reconsider. But as it is, it's a total waste of time.
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We visit another parish pretty regularly that also has Childrens 'liturgy'. We are the only family that does not send our children off and if one happens to act up or say boo, we get 'the look'. Our home parish does not even have a cry room! 
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Our parish has this also. The parish claps for them when they leave and then claps when they return, gag. I wouldn't miss pointing Jesus out to the children at the Consecration for all the world.
Is this even allowed by Canon Law?
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MacBeth
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Hollee, I have never seen this around here, but I have seen the children gathered at the foot of the altar, which I think is also wrong. I will check with the guidelines for children's Mass when I have a moment.
When I was a kid, a children's Mass was a regular Mass, but the homily was given by an old Jesuit who told us about the liturgical year, vestments, parts of the Mass, etc. It was so interesting! Now, I avoid them like the plague. They tend to be very silly in an attempt to appeal to children. I don't want my kids to think the faith is silly, or a coloring session or craft rather than Mass. That's not going to Mass...it's something very different.
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MacBeth
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Maddie wrote:
| Our parish has this also. The parish claps for them when they leave and then claps when they return, gag. |
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This is just SOooo wrong.
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rm4mrfrus
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Thank you ladies for telling me I am not crazy or alone in thinking that this is outrageous! I agree with all your points....how do the kids learn to behave if they are not there? Why miss out on the graces we receive by being there? Why do we need glorified babysitting while at Mass. We ARE passing on a sublimal message that children do not belong at Mass.
Oh and here the kids come out right at the beginning and do NOT go back. The parents pick them up after Mass. And yes, I hear families extolling the wonders of the teachers and the program. I let my 2 yr old and 4 yr old sit with them while we are setting up the donuts because they get a kick out of coloring the sheets and eating crackers (and we are literally right next to them) but I would never pass up them being in Mass with us for it. And so far I have not really seen that they learn ANYTHING at all in the little group thing.
We don't have have a cry room (not that we use them or want one) and now I know why...we dont' need one because there are no babies in Mass. They are all tucked away in the Nursery.
MacBeth, I have seen the kids gathered at the foot of the altar once too and wondered where that came from. I also remember from my childhood (in the Arlington Diocese) the Children's Masses and Fr. Paul who loved offering those Masses. I too thought they were interesting. Completely unlike what seems to be happening now.
If anyone happens to know if this is against Canon Law or whatever it would fall under, I'd appreciate hearing. My dh told me this past Sunday that he plans to speak to Fr. about this Children's Church thing. If there is anything I can arm him with, the better.
And is there some movement to not call it CCD anymore or is that just another weird thing in my diocese/parish? We do not participate in CCD and never really have so I don't know if I just missed a change in wording or what. But again it irks me to ask a kid about CCD and have them say "what?". Even some of the adults don't recognize the term.
Our DRE mentioned to my dh that her dh may take a job elsewhere. I wonder how hard it is to get that position and what the requirements are? It would also mean that we could get a foot in the door to the RCIA....
thanks again for your comments and responses. I don't feel so bad about being bothered that all these little ones are missing Mass each and every week!
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No tomatoes please, but...I am Ok with this.
Our church has both a nursery for the whole Mass(it only covers kiddos to around 4 years) and a Childrens Liturgy. The Childrens Liturgy kids leave before the readings and return after the homily--they let them in in small groups(2-4 kids at a time) and I find it no more disruptive than people taking their kids in and out when they need too. And the children are great about not running and being quiet.
I never put my kids in the nursery(not that either would have let me)Maybe some of the parents are trying to prepare an older sibling for sacraments and need the active toddler in the nursery. Who am I to judge? I would not have my children gone for the whole Mass. I agree with teaching them proper church behavior by being there.
Ds will go to Childrens Liturgy and while he is too old for it by one year(had FHC last year), he gets A LOT out of it. He has learned so much and enjoys things on a less adult level. I have gone a few times to check it out and it really is not all that bad. Upstairs they speak above my head sometimes and don't we as home educating parents try to meet our children where they are(or sometimes even a little below:)so we can teach them? I guess we are lucky and while our parish is far from perfect(oh, so far...)we are reaching the kids in a really positive way. Oh, and no, I do not teach the Childrens Liturgy. I thought of it and went with ds (again) to see if I'd really be interested and the kids asked some questions I couldn't answer! I'll stay
upstairs, thanks !
We do read the gospel before Sunday and discuss it at home. Maybe that is why I don't feel as bad about sending him. He does occasionally stay with us in the church and there are some weeks they don't have it-all summer as a matter of fact.
I am glad the church has these options and people come and take advantage of what works for them--as long as it is with a certain degree of reverence and respect--the clapping thing would be quite bad!!
A ducking, but smiling and loving my sisters in the faith,
Anne
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Mary G
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Anne,
We never throw tomatoes -- we haven't got an emoticon for that yet .
Seriously, I'm sure the Children's liturgy can be done well some places; just everytime I've seen it, it becomes a disruption and it's unnecessary. The kids come back waving the project sheet they've done and chatting with their parents -- right before the consecration!
Blessings!
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rm4mrfrus
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Anne,
No tomatoes at all and I apologize for my ranting making you think you'd get tomatoes!! It sounds as if yours works far better than ours does and does not take a large portion out of every single Mass for the entire Mass. I still think that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages of having a Children's Church but I do see your point!
I am also probably coming at this with an already jaded point of view as I am still experiencing culture shock after moving out of the Arlington Diocese. I miss so very much of it.
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Rebecca
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Anne, I am bringing tomatoes to co-op on Thursday. You better look out... 
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doris
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Excuse my ignorance, but what's DRE and CCD?
Elizabeth
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mom2mpr
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rm4mrfrus wrote:
Anne,
No tomatoes at all and I apologize for my ranting making you think you'd get tomatoes!! It sounds as if yours works far better than ours does and does not take a large portion out of every single Mass for the entire Mass. I still think that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages of having a Children's Church but I do see your point!
I am also probably coming at this with an already jaded point of view as I am still experiencing culture shock after moving out of the Arlington Diocese. I miss so very much of it.
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I knew I'd be "safe" here. I was just joking around and would not have even posted if I felt you all would really throw tomatoes.
But, I wanted to let people know it CAN work, and CAN be positive. No papers, no crayons, nothing but discussion, reading,praying(with prayers on big white posters so the kids can follow along) and singing.. maybe that helps.
I can see how Childrens Liturgy could become a negative thing but both here, and in VA, I found it positive(though the kids in our church in VA might have come back to their seats a little noisier than here ) I am sure in a lot of parishes it is just babysitting. That is why I go occasionally to make sure it is still of the "quality" I expect.
Rebecca, I'll be on the lookout for ya
Anne
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Mary G
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doris wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, but what's DRE and CCD?
Elizabeth |
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Elizabeth: DRE = director of religious education (usually a layperson acting as the head of the catechism program in a parish)
CCD == confraternity of christian doctrine -- the religious education program that is nationwide (but with very different implementation and use of materials) where the children learn the Catholic faith.
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Martha
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mom2mpr wrote:
But, I wanted to let people know it CAN work, and CAN be positive. |
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Anne -
I don't doubt that there are a few decently done programs out there with well intentioned workers. It could be the best program ever though and I'd still be against it. It's my view that every Catholic, even the wee ones, should be in the pew for Mass. Being in the Real Presence is a tremendous grace that every Catholic needs as much of as possible, imho. I have also noticed that this is just the begining to segregating families and children, which is something else I'm not thrilled about.
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From the perspective of a child... my parents never let us go to the children's thing in the middle of mass... they kept us in the pew with them... we had to behave, but our reward was lighting a candle afterwards
I didn't exactly miss going with them much... I preferred to see what was going on in the church (we used to sit in the lady chapel area and I was obsessed with all the stained glass and statuary
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4Real Forums : Domestic Church
Topic: What is with children's church?
