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Bookswithtea
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Elizabeth and I chatted awhile yesterday about modifying cores. We decided that core 200 is going to take more modifying than we are in the mood to do.  Its certainly doable, but it would require rewriting the manual, basically, and neither of us want to do that this spring.
We started discussing core 7 for 9th grade, looking for a core where it would be easy to hand the manual to a child with a few modifications (read this book instead of that one) and have them work independently. Later I'll post some of my thoughts on the books I have pre-read in this core, and the books I think need to be pre-read still or skipped altogether. Anyone else interested in this core for 9th grade credit, or possibly a strong 8th grader given credit for high school level? Core 7 is World History Part II, from about 1650 through the modern era (1990's).
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Martha in VA
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| Anyone else interested in this core for 9th grade credit, or possibly a strong 8th grader given credit for high school level? |
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I'm considering this for my upcoming 8th grade dd. Looking forward to reading your suggestions.
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LisaR
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| Anyone else interested in this core for 9th grade credit, or possibly a strong 8th grader given credit for high school level? Core 7 is World History Part II, from about 1650 through the modern era (1990's). |
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we are studying this time period next year (8th, 5,th, 2nd grades)
I had thought about just getting the IG for Core 7 for ds who will be 8th grade- we already own many of the books.
it might just be me and the ways in which I am lacking as a teacher, but I am feeling quite strongly that pure math and English grammar/writing need to really be beefed up for my kids.
I was considering (don't laugh) doing 75% of our time on just these two subjects, and/or giving it a huge time block, such as 90-120 min per day on each subject.
now that we have entered the "real" school world, and standardized tests coming at us fast and furious as well, ds has repeatedly mentioned that he would have read loads of books on his own anyway (and he does do this now, at 6:30 am before he leaves for school!) and he wishes I had given him lots more structured, formal Writing and Math.
I think someone else on this thread mentioned an emphasis on this as well.
but I just love love love literature, and history!!!!
sigh....
I find it interesting that so many homeschool curriculas tend to emphasize Literature, History, and or unit studies, thinking Winter Promise, Konos, Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace, even MODG, and so on.
Is it because this is something really lacking in box schools, and so is empahsized in the homeschooling arena, or because (like for me) it is so appealing?
I was thinking of laura, askign about schools (college) that are Catholic and rich in Sciences.
Do any of you know of a homeschooling program rich in the sciences?
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Bookswithtea wrote:
| Anyone else interested in this core for 9th grade credit... |
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Yes, I'm reading here and following with great interest.
I'm just starting to revamp/rewrite something for my 8th grade dd for next year, but I don't know how quickly she'll move through it and I'm considering my 9th grade plans carefully. I'm very interested in following along with you Books, as well as hearing about your booklist thoughts!
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Natalia
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Do you mean IG's or sets of books? Sets of books can be ordered in any configuration, but the IG's are only sold together for the cores. |
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Yes, I meant the IG. I was hoping that I could get the different portions of the core separate so I could pick and choose. The program we use, Classical Conversations, is strong in literature but not so much in history. I know I could get the books but I am terrible at scheduling and discussing books with my kids. I would love to have their schedule and discussion questions just for the history part.
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Natalia
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Anyone else interested in this core for 9th grade credit, or possibly a strong 8th grader given credit for high school level? |
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I won't need it next year but would be interested for the year after that. My son will be 8th grade then.If he continues the way he is going,he will be a strong 8th grader.
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Bookswithtea
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LisaR wrote:
it might just be me and the ways in which I am lacking as a teacher, but I am feeling quite strongly that pure math and English grammar/writing need to really be beefed up for my kids...
I find it interesting that so many homeschool curriculas tend to emphasize Literature, History, and or unit studies, thinking Winter Promise, Konos, Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace, even MODG, and so on.
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This is just my impression, but I think the unit studies developed as an alternative to the more traditional programs that heavily emphasize writing/math. Ds did Seton's 10th grade World History this year. Can I tell you how utterly *un* impressed I was with how NOT living it was? Ds was fine with it because it was read/answer questions/take tests (very HARD tests, I might add  ).
For me, I am happy with our current math. I know it puts me in the minority, but I like programs that really ground the child in the basics of each level of math (through Alg II, for us) but don't push understanding into the more advanced realms of each of these levels. Maybe that's because I don't have any students who are interested in math-based careers, though.
And I really like SL's integrated language arts now. I hated the old LA, but the new ones are just wonderful, imho. Ds also just completed Seton's 10th grade English. Again, he liked it just fine and its certainly a decent education, so I cannot argue with him. But if I have to see one more "standard 5 para. essay with a perfect topic sentence, three middle sentences and a perfect transitionary/concluding sentence for each paragraph" I am going to . I like SL's focus on hooks and writing in interesting ways that grab the reader, rather than format writing. Again, that probably puts me in the minority, but I am starting to get used to that.  Well...sort of...
That said, I think there is plenty of room for us to work with core 7. Some of us may focus more on one aspect than others, but that's ok, too.
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Bookswithtea
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Mackfam wrote:
I'm just starting to revamp/rewrite something for my 8th grade dd for next year, but I don't know how quickly she'll move through it and I'm considering my 9th grade plans carefully. I'm very interested in following along with you Books, as well as hearing about your booklist thoughts!
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My plan, I think, that this point is for dd to finish core 5 in the coming school year, then break for a little while and then begin core 7 in the second half of 8th grade for high school credit and finish the bulk of it in the 9th grade. Because I want her to do most everything in the core (assuming some modifications), I want to give her more than a year to complete it without being stressed out.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Martha
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LisaR wrote:
it might just be me and the ways in which I am lacking as a teacher, but I am feeling quite strongly that pure math and English grammar/writing need to really be beefed up for my kids...
I find it interesting that so many homeschool curriculas tend to emphasize Literature, History, and or unit studies, thinking Winter Promise, Konos, Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace, even MODG, and so on.
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I consider myself a bit of a hard-liner for math and grammar/writing skills. And I like Seton. (interestingly enough I compared Seton, Kolbe, and MODG for highschool and find they are far more alike than not!)
That said, I do not like Seton english in the early elementary. In first grade they are just drilling those babies with what is an antonym and such. They are GREAT worktexts. I just honestly couldn't care less if my 6 yr old knows that stuff yet, kwim? Is it really imperative that a little one know that in order to develop a strong writing base? I don't think so. That can wait a bit. It can wait for them to develop a love for reading and the written word.
In fact, I did do all Seton with my olders at that age and I'm doing Hillside's language lessons (which I start at about age 8 or 9 pending readiness) with the middlers and I can say that my older kids aren't any better than the middlers for having had all the drill and kill in early elementary.
I have 2 kids that really like(d) seton, even in 3rd grade and it worked great for them, but I just can't get excited about pushing grammar drill as young as they do. There's so much more enjoyable aspects to learning at that age that I feel are more rewarding and longer lasting.
Math is a whole other thing though! LOL To me it's devleopmental and building-blockish so although I might give them quality math programs at a young age, I let their development determine how we progress through it.
Bookswithtea wrote:
| This is just my impression, but I think the unit studies developed as an alternative to the more traditional programs that heavily emphasize writing/math. |
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yes and also a simple desire to inspire students not inspired the traditional way and who were failing miserably because it didn't connect with them. :)
Quote:
| if I have to see one more "standard 5 para. essay with a perfect topic sentence, three middle sentences and a perfect transitionary/concluding sentence for each paragraph" I am going to . |
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and yet that is EXACTLY what my oldest ds LIKES about Seton. Writing is his hardest subject and free-form just freaks him out and stresses him to no end. Having a format frees him to express himself easier because there's no stress over how to do it.
I think we are the minority, not you.
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Helen
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Martha wrote:
That said, I do not like Seton english in the early elementary. In first grade they are just drilling those babies with what is an antonym and such. They are GREAT worktexts. I just honestly couldn't care less if my 6 yr old knows that stuff yet, kwim? |
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A little off topic... I agree with you Martha. But, I do like the Seton English I but for Third Grade.I'm using it with my third grader as a preparation for him to use Memoria Press Latina Christiana I in Fourth grade.
But I digress...please continue with Sonlight in HS!
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Bookswithtea
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OK, I have my catalogue in front of me and most of core 7 (a version a few years old) within reach.
If I do this, I will definitely do SOTW III and IV on audiocd, as dd really enjoys this format. I may add in the quizzes available through www.peachillpress.com. If you have only seen SOTW I and II, do not assume III and IV are at the same reading level. They aren't. III and IV are geared for 4th-8th, similar to Old World and America.
I am in ch. 20ish right now of pre-reading volume III. So far, I only saw one chapter that needs to be entirely replaced (I think it was regarding Phillip II/William of Orange). Mostly, its fine. I have not pre-read vol. IV at all yet, and I think its essential that someone read it ahead of time to give us all a head's up. These are mostly decent texts, but occasionally devolve, not really into anti Catholic sentiment, but more into common mythology about Catholic figures in history. It needs to be addressed. I think Story of the Church is a decent resource to cover the chapters of history that SOTW does not do correctly. Anne Carroll's texts for high school history would also work...maybe better at this age, now that I think about it. If someone wanted to figure out which chapters of Christ the King Lord of History go along with the time periods studied in the manual, that might be useful. It might even be a decent replacement for SOTW if someone didn't want to use that at all, but my dd loves SOTW so I would have to add for her rather than replace.
I've seen reviews of George Washington's World and Abraham Lincoln's World here that have given me the impression these books are fine, so I am assuming the best about them and probably won't pre-read. I think the Foster books are meaty and difficult, and add that "high school level" to the SOTW books that some feel are too easy.
Since we are looking at 8th/9th grade here, I will have my child do all the reading of both the readers and read alouds on her own.
Re: A few of the Read Alouds:
Arrow over the Door--this is really an easy book, more late elem. level. I think it was included because of content.
The Dark Frigate is unpopular on the discussion forums as long, tedious and boring. My ds *loved* it. I wonder if it may be a book that appeals to boys more than girls?
Escape Across the Wide Sea is a book we may want to consider replacing. If I remember correctly, its from the Hugenot viewpoint with the "King's Religion" being Catholicism. Suggestions?
God's Smuggler, A Heart Strangely Warmed, and Mary Jones and her Bible are all protestant stories that need to be replaced. Elizabeth mentioned possibly using Kolbe's Jr. High Lit saint section and picking saints appropriate to the time periods. I think this is a great idea. Someone want to pick the titles???
Re some of the Readers:
I Am David is in the Kolbe Lit. resource.
O'Dell's The King's Fifth I haven't read, but it sounds like a pretty negative representation of the conquistadors. Anyone want to pre-read it for us?
Madeline Takes Command: I am guessing everyone has used this already in the Elem. years. Maybe we can replace it with something from Kolbe's Lit?
In Search of Honor takes place during the French Revolution and probably merits a pre-reading. Any takers?
I have not preread all the other read alouds/readers in this core. Not even close. Some of them I read as a child (like the Endless Steppe and Escape from Warsaw), two of them are on Seton's list (the Singing Tree and the Good Master) for 8th grade so I am not worried about those, and some sound harmless enough, but I cannot say with a surety that they are going to be ok. If you look at the catalogue and are concerned with any of the titles, please post. Maybe someone else has read it already and can review it for us?
We can skip the bible portion easily enough. SL usually also includes daily bible readings and scripture memory work in their manuals (with no commentary...just for the child to read.memorize on their own). I like to use these, and it would be easy enough to incorporate a schedule for any of the Didache series books that you might want to use. If anyone is interested in an alternative to the Didache's scripture book, Peter Kreeft's You Can Understand the Bible is very good. I used it with a 9th grader along with copywork and was very happy with it.
Re: LA...we are doing Grammar Ace now, and will probably use Easy Grammar Plus in place of that. I do not consider Grammar Ace to be high school level. I may consider Analogies 1 and Wordly Wise 8 (which are used in core 100) alongside the language arts already scheduled in the manual. Spelling is left up to you to schedule (or not). There is a writing assignment every week as well as one or two larger research papers (with instructions on how to do this included in IG).
If you've never seen a SL IG before, you can see a pdf sample at www.sonlight.com.
That's all I can think of right now...
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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stellamaris
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deleted post
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Bookswithtea
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Martha wrote:
and yet that is EXACTLY what my oldest ds LIKES about Seton. |
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Mine too.  I don't get it, but I finally decided I don't *have to* get it. I can let him be the way he is and me be the way I am without passing judgment. I thought Seton's 10th grade English was a good education. I had no complaints about content. Just not my preference...that's all.
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stellamaris
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Sorry about the messed-up post, I'll try to delete it.
I think Genevieve Foster's book about George Washington is great! We did it as a read-aloud several years ago, and I think I learned as much as the kids (and I'm already pretty strong in history). She does a wonderful job of integrating world history and American history, and of explaining events leading up to the Revolution. She really makes historical figures, such as George III, come alive. Haven't read the one about Abraham Lincoln, but would also recommend Augustus' World for those doing the Roman era.
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LisaR
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Bookswithtea wrote:
This is just my impression, but I think the unit studies developed as an alternative to the more traditional programs that heavily emphasize writing/math. Ds did Seton's 10th grade World History this year. Can I tell you how utterly *un* impressed I was with how NOT living it was? Ds was fine with it because it was read/answer questions/take tests (very HARD tests, I might add ).
That said, I think there is plenty of room for us to work with core 7. Some of us may focus more on one aspect than others, but that's ok, too. |
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I agree with you, and think maybe some of it is reactionary.
I struggle with how to "meld" how I THINK education should be, with what the "real world" academia,( whether it be traditional high school, college, standardized testing )
requires.
I am on the lookout for core 7 IG. I really think that I can still do heavy blocks of time with Math and beef up the writing just fine!
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Lisa
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stellamaris
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One interesting book that deals with the early colonial period and the difficulties and discriminations against Catholics isA Priest on Horseback. If you study the American Southwest, you might want to consider Father Kino: Priest to the Pimas, which is out-of-print but maybe you could locate a copy. Another fascinating book written by a faithful Catholic isThe Far Side of the Sea. I read this more for myself, so you might want to preview it for a younger reader (there was a rather gruesome description of Apache tortures). It's not extremely well-written, but does bring that time alive, and is kind of a mystery (it is based on the true story of the discovery of Kino's grave). It truly gives a picture of what these faithful priests suffered to spread the Gospel. Instead of Madeleine in Command, if your student is a good reader you might consider Shadows on the Rock by Willa Cather. It is the story of a young French girl in Montreal in the 1600's and the effort of the people to carve out some kind of civilization in the remote wilderness. Again, this is one I read for myself, so you should definitely preview it; I don't remember anything terrible in it, but I wasn't reading it with a view to the children and it's been a few years since I read it. It does give a sense of the time, but maybe is more high school level.
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stellamaris
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LisaR wrote:
I struggle with how to "meld" how I THINK education should be, with what the "real world" academia,( whether it be traditional high school, college, standardized testing )
requires.
I am on the lookout for core 7 IG. I really think that I can still do heavy blocks of time with Math and beef up the writing just fine! |
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One of the essentials of education is learning HOW TO THINK, and it is here that the study of history and literature is so important. The greater part of excellent writing occurs before the pen ever makes a mark on the paper; it occurs in the thought processes of the writer. Discussion of historical events or literary themes develops the ability of the student to analyze, organize, and identify important points/themes. Writing is not just grammar and mechanics, but it is the conveying of (hopefully) insightful thought. So one might see history and literature as essential to writing.
Mathematics develops another type of reasoning, that is sequential logic. The study of mathematics must be balanced with the more complex study of literature/history to produce a student with a complete reasoning capability. For this reason, mathematics needs to be consistent, but not so over-emphasized that it crowds out other subjects that require different modes of thinking.
Looking at it from this perspective might make it possible for you to meld "how you think education should be" with traditional academics.
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Caroline
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Natalia
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Books,
Our library has The King's Fifth. I will pre-read and report. OK?
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I am looking at the list of Readers from Core 7. These are the ones I read last year:
The Endless Steppe
Escape from Warsaw (I read it with a different title The Silver Sword)
The Sherwood Ring
The Singing Tree
Angel in the Square
The Breadwinner
The Good Master
The Ghost in the Tokaido Inn
I am David
Number the Stars
Of all these my favorites were I am David and The Breadwinner (I liked it because it is a topic I am not familiar with and it really brought it to life. The book has a sequel which I also read)
The Good Master and the Singing Tree are good but slow. I don't think my boy would like it but I think a girl might like them better.
Oh I also read The Year of Impossible Goodbyes and really liked it too.
I don't think any of this books are high school level books though. Which brings me to a question (and I might have asked this before), what makes a book high school reading for you? is it the topic, the level of difficulty or what?
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Bookswithtea
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Natalia wrote:
Books,
Our library has The King's Fifth. I will pre-read and report. OK? |
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Thank you! And thank you for the list of books you've read, too. Very helpful to me.
I am musing on your question about high school literature. My first thought was the same as yours...that this definitely isn't what I'd consider classic literature. But I started thinking some more about it, and I think 9th grade English is not usually lit. based. In fact, a lot of these kinds of books were actually on my "book report" lists of options for 9th and 10th (honors English). Maybe that's changed now, as that was the mid-late 80's . I took honors English as a junior and then AP English as a senior. We still didn't read the number of novels and plays that my ds read in the 9th grade alone! Even Seton doesn't use a lot of literature in the 9th grade. The focus is more on writing/mastering grammar and I think this program has plenty of that.
That said, I am inclined to replace books that need replacing with books from the Kolbe list that are more high school level. And when we do 100 the year after that, I want to replace a lot more. I used the high school level books from Kolbe Jr. High exclusively for 9th grade. We did the poetry unit, the short story unit, and several other novels to complete 36 weeks (Shakespeare, Dickens, Twain, etc). I just avoided books that seemed more jr. high-ish. While I love Kolbe's Jr. high lit program, In hindsight, I think I kind of regret pushing ds in the 9th grade as much as I did. I was very nervous about hsing for high school and wanted to make sure that everything was scholarly, but in a non textbooky kind of way. This year ds (15) read David Copperfield with Seton's English 10. I won't repeat that book choice. He handled other Dickens just fine but that one was *hard* and he really just didn't get it. It was his choice, but I don't think I'd allow another child to choose that one.
Now I am thinking more like stellamaris mentioned above...its about how to think, and in a way, you can cut your teeth on all sorts of different things. It might just be ok to wait for heavy literature until 11th and 12th grade (one for British, one for American)?
This is all very stream of consciousness for me. I don't have well formed thoughts on all of this, and I think its shows...
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Sonlight for High School
