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Bridget
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So how DOES it work? How can you get sleep with a baby and a 20 month old? How do you manage when there is a little body with you or on you most of the time?
We know it can work, and beautifully, but lets share how.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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ladybugs
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I had 4 children in less than 4 years. My 4th was born when my oldest was 3.5.
So, my dh is a cancer survivor having survived childhood Hodgkins. At 11, at the end of his treatment, the docs gave him a <2% chance of ever being a dad. I knew that going into this but both he and I really believed that we'd have children.
Now, don't attribute that to us being great. It was pure and simple grace.
Our first was born 13 months later. I had extreme difficulty nursing. I had been sent home after working with the lactation consultant and for 7 weeks kept trying but having to supplement with formula. For some reason, my body must have thought that the child had died and now, after 4 births, the suspicion is that my body lacks the glands.
Oh, the ache when I was approached by those who were well-intentioned but didn't understand my situation and criticized me for "my choices." Little did they know that if my child didn't get formula, she wasn't eating. I had found out about milk banks - but the milk was totally expensive and that alone ruled it out for us aside from other issues that I wasn't comfortable with.
So, despite not breastfeeding my children, I did skin to skin feedings in the home. As babes, I showered with them. I wore them. We all slept together in 1 room. I carried them. I snuggled them.
I did everything I possibly could to ensure their security.
Almost a year to the day, dear daughter #2 was born.
Dd #3 who was born 21 months after dd#2. Ds was born 13 months after her.
After our son was born, I developed a raging case of PPD.
We used NFP because I knew that I could not continue at this rate. I had no physical help, no emotional support and no money to hire help.
I was tired of being criticized for not breastfeeding. I was tired of being criticized for having more than 1 or 2 children. I was tired of being encouraged to use birth control when the ones encouraging knew I wouldn't. I was tired of everyone offering their opinion but no one offering help.
It was 6 months after my son was born that my dh's employment went completely unstable.
And that lasted until August of last year.
So that's our story.
Maybe that's TMI but with 4 kids we did do AP and it worked on God's time.
I'm going to post this before I change my mind.
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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Lisbet
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| Posted: Jan 14 2008 at 11:32am | IP Logged
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Bridget,
I have revisted this very issue many times during the course of the 'debate'. It's very hard for me pinpoint exactly how we do it, because we've been doing it for so long. Kinda like a really good cook, that cannot write down a recipe because there is none!
I breastfeed for years, usually 3, a few times much longer, so oftentimes more than 1 (or 2!) are nursing. This promomtes bonding in more than just mom and baby, the toddler doesn't feel put off this way and the siblings bond in a big way. Right now we have 2 babies in our bed, Mark and Molly. Co-sleeping extends beyond mom and dad's bed, with little siblings snuggling up to big siblings during the night. They don't always share beds, but rooms.
Babywearing is about bonding and survivial in this house!  I generally wear the baby on my back so the toddler can be carried, nurse, and held.
I'm not real sure about othe specifics. Yelling is left for crowd control, not discipline. Spanking, well, dad has been known to swat a rowdy or disrespectful boy. (never a girl!) I'm not capable of it.
What else??
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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JodieLyn
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Some things just have to give way before your particular family imo.. things like mom taking a nap with the new baby.. forget it around here... even as close together as my children are, there is no way to nap because the toddler gives up naps so very early.. they all do.. they are all on the less sleep end of that spectrum. And I found that I do NOT want them to nap. I want to get them to sleep around 9pm so that I can have an hour or two of peace and quiet And if they nap, they stay up late and STILL get up at the same time. So if my 2-3 yr olds nap, that's it, in order for me to get enough sleep I'd have to go to bed as soon as they did.. giving me no time to wind down at the end of the day.
So the principles of the thing are fine.. but where the rubber hits the road.. you gotta make it work for your particular family. If that means that your back won't let you baby wear for long periods of time.. then you do as much as you can and not worry about the other times.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Bridget
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ladybugs wrote:
Maybe that's TMI but with 4 kids we did do AP and it worked on God's time.
I'm going to post this before I change my mind. |
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Thats a good story, Maria. You did what worked for your specific situation in a way that honored God. I'm glad you posted it.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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Dawnie
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Maria, I'm glad you posted, too. I think it's proof positive that there are lots of ways for mothers to love their babies!
Love,
Dawn
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Visit my blog!Water Into Wine:Vino Per Tutto!
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ladybugs
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Whew...I'm relieved. Being open can be hard, but I wanted to share....
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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LisaR
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Maria, I hesitate to post here, as I don't "qualify" but I wanted to say I so appreciated your thoughtful post. I am sorry for your past hurts.
a very belated happy b day to your son btw - what a great feast day to be born on!! 
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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Dawnie
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Bridget wrote:
So how DOES it work? How can you get sleep with a baby and a 20 month old? How do you manage when there is a little body with you or on you most of the time?
We know it can work, and beautifully, but lets share how. |
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My two closest in age are 2 years apart--so I had a baby and a 24 month old. I slept by sleeping with both of them at the same time. I would sleep w/ the baby btw. me and a bedrail and the toddler on the other side of me. Our bed was pushed up against a wall, so the toddler couldn't fall out of bed.
I also dozed on the couch while nursing the baby. I used baby gates to gate off our living room and totally babyproofed it. Then, I could doze while my older kids played or watched a video.
When I was pregnant w/ our last baby, I slept w/ all the kids in the same room. My dh works 2nd shift, so I had to put the kids to bed 5 nights a week. What worked best was for me to lie down in bed w/ my toddler and have the older two kids make a pallet on the floor in the same room. Now, my oldest sleeps in a room by herself (which she prefers now), my middle two (ages 3 and 5) sleep in another room together. Until about a month ago, they both slept in the bottom bunk bed together. Then, my 5yo decided that she wanted to sleep in her own bed and sleeps in the top bunk now.  When the 3yo needs someone to snuggle w/ as she goes to sleep, I let her lie down w/ me in my bed. Dh usually moves her back into her bed when he gets home (around 11:30pm). Sometimes she lets him, sometimes not. Our philosophy is, it doesn't matter where they sleep, as long as they SLEEP!!
I learned how to use a cloth wrap to carry a baby on my back after my 3rd baby was born. I've become more and more comfortable with it, and now I can put my baby on my back anytime and tend to chores and my other children, keeping the baby close to me at the same time. I've also used a baby sling A LOT. I remember many, many mornings preparing breakfast for my older kids while keeping the baby snuggled up close to my chest in the sling.
I've found that while it's more physically tiring to hold/carry the baby a lot, my spirit is more at peace when I have the baby close to me. Listening to crying and whining makes me feel anxious and on-edge.
Dawn
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Joelle
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We keep our babies in bed with us for the greater part of the first year. Then they move to their cribs. This transition has been fine in the past with no "crying it out." The rest of the kids sleep together snuggled on their floors (yes, they have beds--they just don't use them, I don't understand...) until maybe midnight, then all migrate to our bedroom floor. I am not afraid I'll roll on the babies, but I do worry about toddlers and daddy, so anyone coming into our room is welcome--they just need to camp out at the foot of the bed, or if that is claimed, the floor.
One comment I am uncomfortable with is, "You shouldn't have your babies in bed with you. You may smother them." I have heard it so many times! I am not sure how to respond (since the real response, "It's none of your business!" is not indicative of the respectful lady my parents raised .
I also wear my babies a great deal. Though hard as I try, even with the incredible tutorial by Lisbet--thank you again by the way--I am unable to get that sweet little thing on my back, so she rides in front, looking out and lovin' life!
Another thing I do is give the baby to a sibling and invite other little folks onto my lap during reading time or the family Rosary. Even my oldest (11 yob) is invited to cuddle on my lap. And he does!
I know it's probably not "official" AP, but it works for us!
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God Bless, Joelle
Mom to 7: Boy (96), Girls (00, 02, 04), Boy (05), Girl (07), Boy (09)
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Dawnie
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Joelle,
Keep trying to do the back carry--it is SO worth it!
You might try practicing with a large stuffed animal. They won't get hurt if they fall on the floor!
I'm not sure how old your youngest is, but I've found that it's easier to do a back carry once the baby has good neck/back control, about 5-6 months old. I know that you can carry a baby younger than that on your back, I'm just not too comfortable with it yet.
Dawn
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vmalott
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Three words:
KING SIZED BED
I really don't know how we'd have done it without one, honestly! Our first two are 21 months apart, completely ON PURPOSE (we laugh at that now, believe me). We semi-co-slept w/#1, THEN bought the big bed about a week after #2 arrived. Each subsequent child has slept with us for varying lengths of time.
#3 was kind of a special case, since I had a second trimester miscarriage on either side of her, so she's spaced roughly 2.5 years from her older and younger brothers.
#4 and #5 are 19 months apart, and #6 was born 18 months after that. This recent baby has the longest spacing of nearly 3.5 years, but again that spacing was the result of a late miscarriage.
So, anyway, for kids 4-6, there was plenty of tandem nursing going on. I believe #4 weaned sometime early in the pregnancy w/#6, and #5 weaned sometime after #6 was born. #6 herself weaned completely sometime during this last pregnancy. She just recently discovered how much fun it is to be in a bedroom with her older sister (who is 5.5 years older), which has made the transition for our newest bedfellow much smoother. Like Lisa, the co-sleeping extends to siblings...sometimes in a bed together, and definitely sharing a room.
Aside from the co-sleeping and extended nursing, we also wear our children...not extensively, though, since there are so many hands here that LOVE to hold babies. These are things that work for our family. We don't leave our kids w/babysitters, other than extended family who love them nearly as much as we do and hold fairly similar parenting views (e.g. you can never hold a baby too much, etc.).
We try to respond as respectfully as possible, keeping in mind the God-given temperament of each child. This does not mean every whim is catered to. They learn early on that they are part of a family, which means sacrificing oneself for the collective good.
Personally, I think it has been an easier lesson to learn in our family for those children who were closely spaced together. The two girls (9 and 3.5) who didn't have that benefit (though God knows we tried), are a little more reluctant to 'give.' Thus, I find it really hard to understand that "ideal" AP spacing of 3 years.
Valerie
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Valerie
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Dawnie
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| Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 11:03am | IP Logged
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vmalott wrote:
Three words:
KING SIZED BED
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Oh YEAH! Best furniture purchase we ever made!
Dawn
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Visit my blog!Water Into Wine:Vino Per Tutto!
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JenniferS
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We don't have a king-sized bed, just a queen. How I long for a king-size!!!!! Right now, we have a two year old and a four eyar old that sleep with us. In another week or so, we'll be adding a newborn to the mix. Not sure how we're going to make this work. Dh keeps talking to the four year old about going to his own bed(that he shares with his nine year old brother), so we'll see. I keep hoping king-size bed will become a priority with dh.
When our oldest was born, I swore that we were not going to be a co-sleeping family. The idea was so foreign to me. But dd was a little on the colicky side, and I am a person who needs sleep.
My oldest and my fourth(six years old) don't really like to sleep with others, but my eight and nine year olds often end up in the bottom bunk together. Not so long ago all four of our oldest kids used to end up in the bottom bunk that is a full-size bed.
We also have a fairly small house, and that really lends itself to being close.
Jen
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Lisbet
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Jen,
We've co-slept with 3 and 4 kids before, and it can be tricky. Do you have a spare twin you can put beside your queen? We did that for awhile, I slept on the crack...  Generally, it's wall, baby, mom, toddler, dad, bigger kids, bedrail. Cozy indeed!
Oftentimes when we have a 3 or 4 year old with us, dh will move them into their bed later in the night.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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JenniferS
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We had been moving the four year old to his bed at night, but over the last month, that has just been too much for my back, and dh falls asleep before the kids do!!!
I like the idea of moving a twin bed into our room, but I am not sure it would fit. We have kind of a strange shaped room. I'll have to ask dh about that. There are still nights that we wake up and find our nine year old in bed with us, too. I don't mind the kids in our bed at all(especially when it is cold, and we are relying on our radiant heat woodstove to heat the house), but the space is limited.
Thank you for the idea. I'll tell dh. It just might work.
Jen
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Dawnie
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Jen,
Do you think the older kids might be happy sleeping on a pallet on the floor in your room?
For awhile, my kids actually PREFERRED to sleep in sleeping bags on the floor. They had perfectly fine beds available to sleep in, but I guess they liked the novelty of sleeping together on the floor. Sort of like an indoor camping trip, maybe?
That might be kinda cold in the wintertime, though. Lots of blankets?
Dawn
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JenniferS
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The older kids might not mind the floor, except the nine year old. He is like his mama, and he is sure there is a monster under the bed. The idea of a camping trip would be a novelty.
Thanks.
Jen
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wwandsprmn
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Though I didn't have mine close together, two words were music to my ears...mother's helper.
I have always hired younger girls to help out as a mother's helper. The ones who are not old enough to really babysit on their own but can sit and play in the floor with a baby and toddler while I napped on the couch in the same room, did laundry or showered. Maybe 10-12 yrs old. I paid them modestly and never had a problem finding them. They are usually so eager to work, earn money, and gain experience.
It's like hiring an older sibling!
Blessings~
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kathleenmom
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Bridget,
This is something that I have been pondering for a good bit, even prior to the recent AP contratemps. I have long been an AP proponent...so much of what is core to AP philosophy resonates with truth and wisdom for me, but I am not at all sure about the implementation, atleast in our family.
I think I was more of a traditional AP mom with one and two. They were 24 months apart. I tandem nursed, we have always coslept with atleast the baby and sometimes the toddler. I have always slung/ back carried...etc....
My problem is similar to Jodie's....when the rubber hits the road, the practice atleast for me gets more complicated. I don't know if it the particular temperments of my children, the behavioral disorders, or my own glaring faults and weaknesses. My children just seem so needy and I always feel like I am going from fire to fire and never meeting everyone's needs adequately.
The current small people mix consists of 10 month old (running....not just walking) and very needy 2.5 year old. They are 21 months apart. The 2.5 year old's constant refrain is "pick me up", and the baby gets the brundt of the jealousy in the form of shoves, and other physical aggression when his needs are not being met....and that is a good deal of the time. The 5 year old, 8 year old and 10 year old are more self-sufficient by necessity. However, I feel like much of the time I expect more of them than they are willing to give and don't have enough to give them myself.
I love AP. I wish I were a posterperson. I am not. I really feel like I am a parenting dilettante...flitting about from child to child, teasing everyone with a mommy who wishes she could be more, barely meeting anyone's needs and not satiating anyone. 
Whoa...this is turning into too much of a downer. Anxiously watching for more good advice.
Kathleen
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4Real Forums : Mothering and Family Life
Topic: AP with closely Spaced Children
