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ElizLeone
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| Posted: July 02 2007 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone know anything about the Lone Pine Classical School's online Latin program? The program for elementary students is "Stellae." From there is goes to Latin 100 through Latin 400.
I was debating between continuing with Latina Christiana or switching to Lively Latin this year. And then I get some information, via email, about this Lone Pine program. In emailing the teacher, I am totally intrigued. I can email some of the details that she has given me about the program and the differences she sees in this program versus Latina Christiana. But what I really want to know is whether anyone has any first-hand knowledge of this program.
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
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Kristie 4
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I would like to hear about this too... I haven't purchased our latin progam yet.
Thanks,
Kristie
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ElizLeone
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If anyone wants, I can forward some of the info that the "magistra" of the program sent me privately by email, describing the program. I didn't think I'd be tempted by anything other than Latina Christiana or Lively Latin, but I have been! The online nature of it has me intrigued.
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
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Elena
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I am very interested! Thanks for sharing this!
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mariB
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Elizabeth,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention! I spent a lot of time on Karen's site yesterday. She's emailed me back twice. I might add, quite promptly. I skimmed through her Stellae lesson plans(ages 8-12) and looked up the book she uses on Amazon for high schoolers and I am quite impressed!
The opportunity to take the National Merit exam for the highschoolers is a definite plus.
I thought I had my latin picked out too. I was actually looking for my highschoolers but I think we are going to go with this program. I love the idea of the SUPPORT. She has given me advice on what to do with the kids this summer and I haven't even filled out a form!
In the past, we have done Latina Christiana I
and
Henle
This coming school year we are going to do Latin 100 for the 14, and 15 year olds
Stellae for our 8 and 11 year olds
I have also read Latin Centered Curriculum and I am convinced about the importance of doing Latin and math everyday!
Again, thanks!
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marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
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ElizLeone
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Just hearing you saying all this, Marianne, is giving me more fodder for my growing feeling that I should switch to Lone Pine. I was worried that I was doing the "grass is greener" thing, but this program and the very prompt response of the teacher is impressing me in a big way.
If you can wade through this very long post, I am cutting and pasting some of the key correspondence I've had with the teacher/director, Karen Karppinen, over the last few days.
________________
This is the original email I received from Karen -- an unsolicited email, apparently because of my involvement in running our local homeschool co-op:
Hello,
I teach Latin and math to homeschoolers in Fort Collins, Colorado. I'm sending you this message in case your group members would be interested in our new online program - it's a great opportunity, especially for high-schoolers! (Students in northern Colorado may attend online or in person.)
NEW: For next school year, I will begin offering my classes online, under the name "Lone Pine Classical School." Latin 100 (first-year Latin) and STELLAE (introductory class for ages 8-12) will be offered (and are filling quickly!). The Latin program is a full 4-year program; Latin 200 through 400 are currently offered "in person" and will be offered online as the first students progress through the levels. (Math will probably not be offered for 2007-2008, unless there is tremendous interest.) Online Latin classes will meet twice weekly for a live, interactive (video & audio) session. Students may also attend a live online "help session" once a week (optional), and ask questions via email at any time.
Here is the web page for my program: http://www.lonepineclassical.com/online_index.asp
It is a solid, well-tested, and affordable program.
Latin offers the students not only improvement in (English!) vocabulary, grammar, and thinking skills, -- and a great advantage in learning French, Spanish, or Italian (my 3rd-year students can read basic stories in all 3 languages) -- but also the opportunity to take the annual National Latin Exam (and win an award!), earn scholarships, join the National and Colorado Junior Classical Leagues (no matter where you live), and join the National Latin Honor Society (if they maintain an A). This year ALL of my students won National Latin Exam awards! We attended the state convention for CoJCL (Colorado Junior Classical League), where they had a great time and earned many awards -- they can't wait to go again next year! Online students are verywelcome to attend the Colorado convention with us, if traveling to Fort Collins, Colorado in late April fits into your plans. (The mountains are beautiful this time of year! :)
Latin is a tremendous resume / college-application builder for your students!
My A.P. Calculus course (Pre-Calculus is a prerequisite) allows high-schoolers to earn real college credit (accepted at almost every university in the country) for just the cost of the class and the $80 or so fee for the national A.P. exam in May. (A great way to save time and money!) Math will ONLY be offered in '07-'08 if demand is very high.
I try to offer the students as many resume-builders as possible. I taught high-school before having children, and was trained to help high-schoolers build "glowing" college applications; I'm doing my best for these students! :)
Thank you very much for your time! Please do spread the word, and email me with questions!
I will keep your email address on my list for next year's announcements, unless you wish otherwise.
(I only send two emails per year to the email list -- May 1st and July 15th. This email is in lieu of the July 15th message, hence the only message you will receive this year.)
Thank you,
Karen Karppinen
karp1248@yahoo.com
:)
____________________________________
Here is a follow-up email, mostly answering my questions about switching from ecclesiastical to classical pronunciation and appropriateness for my 9- and 11-year old daughters:
Salve!
Yes, "Stellae" is the new "Latin ABC" -- I included the old name for last year's parents who may wonder where their child's class went! ("Latin ABC" just wasn't a fun name.)
Stellae seems appropriate for both your 6th and 4th grader, since we take the ELE exam (for grades 3-8).
My Latin 100 class is a college-prep (somewhat fast-paced) high school level class -- challenging for kids under the age of 14, but possible for some 12 and 13 year olds who put forth the effort and are good with languages. (That said, it is a very strong class, and I do hope you keep it in mind when your daughters reach at least 8th grade. And I do have 13-year-olds entering the class neither terribly academically motivated nor particularly skilled in grammar who do very well; they usually are enticed to study by either the National Latin Exam or the state Latin convention in April.)
I did look at Minimus for this class, but didn't think it had enough content; I ended up writing my own curriculum. The focus is more on vocabulary (with English derivatives) and history/culture than grammar, because I've found that most kids just have to be of a certain age (14ish) for grammar to really "click." That said, I do teach some basic grammar and expect that it will be mastered. My main goal with the Stellae class is to interest kids in Latin so that they join the high-school program; I've also found that it's of great help to them in high school if I can cover a lot of the history/culture with them in Stellae -- then, in high school, they can really focus on grammar.
=-=
I don't think the pronunciation transfer will be difficult at all. All it really entails is: c = k (not "ch"), v = w. So "Cicero" is "kikero," and "veni vidi vici" is "waynee weedee weekee." It's very easy to switch back and forth. Most kids sing church songs with ecclesiastical pronunciation, anyway.
=-=
On a schedule note, this class is so full that I am debating opening a second section. I don't yet know when it would be, but I may be able to schedule it based on parent input.
(The web conferencing software does allow you to record the class and play it back at your convenience, as well.)
=-=
As for the Macs -- I don't see why not, but we will run a software test before classes begin to sort out all the software/connection issues that families may have. You can check with www.webex.com (that's the software we'll use) -- their technical question section is rather good.
Thank you for the inquiry! Please let me know if you wish to receive the summer newsletter -- it contains the official registration form and this year's schedule.
Gratias,
Karen Karppinen
:)
________________________________
Another response, when I asked her specifically about Memoria Press' Latin programs (which we currently use) and how her program differs:
Salve!
I am familiar with those courses. I must admit that they aren't my favorite Latin texts (and that's an understatement); not because of the content, but because of the approach -- they remind me quite a bit of "Latin for Americans," a textbook series I used for two years until the students and I threw them (well, and Wheelock) out in disgust in favor of our new Latin 100/200 book, Orberg's Lingua Latina (which they _love_).
How they differ: (And some background about my high-school program.)
The courses you've been using do make Latin accessible for homeschooling parents who don' t know Latin, and do a good job working in Church Latin. But (in my own personal opinion!) the approach in those books is: here are some unrelated words, here is some unrelated grammar, now go do these exercises and we'll check them. It's the "grammar/translation" approach, which was very popular in the 1920's-50's, I think, and still is popular today -- it's the way my mom learned Latin, and even the way that I learned Latin in the 80's/90's. I have recently been swayed in favor of a more traditional approach that treats Latin like a "real language" (going back to the days when priests taught Latin class _in Latin_, or even further back, when the ancient Romans learned Greek by speaking Greek, not just reading it). It's not that I'm a hippie, or have low standards -- quite the opposite -- but I've found that students remember vocabulary words better if they're tied into a story/theme, and remember grammar better if we act out sentences/scenes together using those grammar rules (e.g. practicing giving commands to each other). More importantly, the kids like Latin better and hence stick with it longer; most programs have a _big_ drop in numbers between years 1 -> 2 and 2 -> 3. With this new book and better (in my opinion) method, I've retained about 90% of students in the past few years (before that, it was 60-70% if I was lucky).
How they don't differ:
Any Latin textbook series should cover "all" of the standard grammar and enough vocabulary to read most of Caesar/Cicero and the Vulgate (in my opinion) in the first two years. And all popular books do: Latina Christiana, Henle, Latin for Americans, Wheelock, Orberg, Oxford Latin Course, Cambridge Latin Course, Ecce Romani, etc. You really can't go wrong, if you get a book and study diligently. I've previewed all of the above books myself except Oxford, and didn't find anything really "wrong" with any of them. Most were just grammar/translation that would bore my kids to tears without parlor tricks on my part. (Cambridge and Ecce are better in that respect.)
The goal behind these "more traditional" books (not grammar/translation ones, but ones that approach Latin as a real language like our Orberg book does) is to make the students better readers -- prepare them better for higher-level courses. Since they've learned more vocab, learned it more thoroughly, and had more practice manipulating the language (and, ideally, more extensive reading), they know what the grammar/translation students know, but also are much better prepared to read "real" Latin, whether it's the Vulgate or Cicero. I remember struggling through Cicero in high school with a dictionary by my side, and feeling like it was just a code to decipher.. last year my Latin 300's were able to get the gist of what he was saying without that crutch, and actually "got" the humor in his speeches.
=-=
I was hesitant to switch textbooks, because I worried that the new book would be "softer" than the grammar/translation one -- thinking that a course has to feel "hard" to be rigorous, and if the students enjoy it they must not be learning! ;) But it's not softer; it actually has almost twice the vocabulary, and my students' National Latin Exam scores have never been better. Happily, it was a good move for us.
=-=
And for your final question -- the Stellae class is set up so that each student can work at his/her own ability level. The 4th grader would probably master the vocabulary but not all of the grammar -- but, at least she's seen it, and has a fuzzy idea of what we were doing so that when she does tackle it, she's much better prepared. The 6th grader would probably do "everything" that I present (vocab, grammar, history/culture, etc.) and would be placed in a higher-level team for games like our Certamen (quiz bowl) in the spring -- competing against kids working at her level. I wasn't a beliver in multi-level classes a few years ago, either, but it's been working great for this class; I'm believing more and more in the power of learning by absorption -- the young kids have their own activities to do while the older ones are getting a short grammar lesson, and don't seem to be listening, but then they surprise me by giving their older siblings the right answers during review games! Kids can actually take this class for 5 years in a row, before graduating to the high-school program; we cover the same basic syllabus (vocabulary & some grammar/culture) each year, but have a different theme every session, and do different English derivatives, advanced grammar, readings, etc. The national ELE exam that they can opt to take in December is also written on two levels -- grades 5+ have more questions to answer and more topics on their syllabus than the younger kids.
=-=
Sorry for the e-novel. The switch in teaching/textbook philosophy is something I'm very interested in; I hope the explanation of grammar/translation vs. "traditional" method made sense. (Other people may call the "traditional" method the "reading" method, or immersion method, or natural method... or even the modern method. Some even call grammar/translation the "traditional" method, even though it only came into vogue about 100-150 years ago... less than 5% of Latin's existence!)
(The Stellae class has also been a great experiment in running a multi-level / mixed-age classroom. People keep telling me that I should write my thesis on it. We'll see...!)
Email with questions.. I promise shorter replies!
Karen K.
:)
p.s. Another Latin course you may hear of for younger kids is "Minimus" -- I looked at it, but I don't think it contains enough vocabulary/etc. It just doesn't present much information per lesson.
___________________________________________
Final bit of feedback from Karen:
Useful Links:
Lingua latina - official site: http://www.lingua-latina.dk/index2.htm
USA distributor site: http://www.pullins.com/txt/LinguaLatina.htm
My site w/textbook explanation: http://www.lonepineclassical.com/online_aboutthetext.asp (scroll down past the sample daily plan)
Course plans: http://www.lonepineclassical.com/online_courseplans.asp
Most useful link --> If you do Latin on your own, I would join this email list so you can ask questions as they arise: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CCSLatinTeachers/ There are lots of homeschoolers there.
I've seen the Lively Latin website, but haven't met the teacher. (I've "met" a lot of others through various email lists -- nearly all the ones who offer online courses.) It looks inexpensive enough that it seems worth checking out.
Good luck with your choice! Since you have Latin background, I'm sure you could handle any of the courses.
If the Stellae doesn't work out (which is fine, since it's already very full), do keep me in mind for high school! Your students would take the National Latin Exam, be eligible for Nat'l Latin Honors Society, etc. etc., and -- I don't know where you live -- would be able to attend the Colorado state convention with us (Junior Classical League). That's a very fun 2 days in late April; I have at least one student traveling to CO (she lives in the Dominican Republic!) to go with us this year.
Hope to see you this coming school year, or - especially - in a year or two!
Have a great summer,
Karen Karppinen
:)
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
7 kids, 1 little saint
Munchkins on the Path
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mariB
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| Posted: July 04 2007 at 9:33am | IP Logged
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All I can say is WOW!!!
I'm sold. We were in such pain doing Henle this year with my two olders that I wanted to throw in the towel on Latin. Then was encouraged by the Pope's last exhortation but was hunting around desperately for a Latin course with a lot of help and a total different approach.
From the examples that Karen has given, I feel that this Latin program is very fair to the students! Not to mention interesting:)
Thanks so much for posting her emails!!!
marianne
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BrendaPeter
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Hi Elizabeth,
I just wanted to let you know that I posted on the Latin Classical Ed yahoo group to see if anyone's used the program. I'll let you know!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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4Real Forums : Across Time and Place
Topic: Lone Pine Classical School’s Latin
